DPI and accuracy

[Dubesta11]

My friends will not stop ranting on about how you should use your mouse on the highest possible DPI. They move their mice less than a cm for 720 degree rotations in games and it feels terribly inaccurate to use, even for basic computer usage. I keep my desktop sensitivity fairly low, which is 1000 DPI, because I have the space for it. 

 

Now, their claims are that the higher the DPI, the higher the resolution ("Dots per inch"), therefore the greatest accuracy. I am claiming that it is not any more accurate, it just moves your cursor quicker and actually makes it harder to aim. I watch them use the computer and they very often overshoot what they are meaning to click, claiming nothing against that. 

 

Does playing at a sensitiviy so low that you hardly have control over your mouse justify the claim that it is more accurate and takes more skill to use?

 

Also, I am a fan of logitech and often claim they make some of the best sensors, where my friends claim any 15 dollar mouse on Amazon is just as good or better?

 

End of rant.

[Shiv78]

5 minutes ago, Dubesta11 said:

Also, I am a fan of logitech and often claim they make some of the best sensors, where my friends claim any 15 dollar mouse on Amazon is just as good or better?

 

Usually not.

Playing at high DPI is mostly only beneficial by lowering game sensitivity, to provide more control physically rather than digitally..

[Dubesta11]

Just now, Shiv78 said:

Usually not.

Playing at high DPI is mostly only beneficial by lowering game sensitivity, to provide more control physically rather than digitally..

 

The full claim is that there is a digital improvement because of a higher DPI.

[2FA]

Considering the fact that pro CS players tend to play at the lowest DPI settings possible, your friends are idiots.

[Mira Yurizaki]

11 minutes ago, Dubesta11 said:

My friends will not stop ranting on about how you should use your mouse on the highest possible DPI. They move their mice less than a cm for 720 degree rotations in games and it feels terribly inaccurate to use, even for basic computer usage. I keep my desktop sensitivity fairly low, which is 1000 DPI, because I have the space for it. 

 

Now, their claims are that the higher the DPI, the higher the resolution ("Dots per inch"), therefore the greatest accuracy. I am claiming that it is not any more accurate, it just moves your cursor quicker and actually makes it harder to aim. I watch them use the computer and they very often overshoot what they are meaning to click, claiming nothing against that. 

 

Does playing at a sensitiviy so low that you hardly have control over your mouse justify the claim that it is more accurate and takes more skill to use?

 

Also, I am a fan of logitech and often claim they make some of the best sensors, where my friends claim any 15 dollar mouse on Amazon is just as good or better?

 

End of rant.

If I wanted to be pedantic, what's being described here is precision, not accuracy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision#ISO_Definition_.28ISO_5725.29 Since humans suck at being precise at minute distances, having a higher DPI is worse for your accuracy if you're trying to hit smaller targets (this can be anything from moving the mouse to a button to trying to aim at something).

 

I mean, a lot of high end mice these days offer a "sniper mode" which decreases the DPI. Considering that going into a "sniper mode" implies more accuracy, why would cutting down your precision be better?

 

EDIT: To put in another way, if you have 12,000 DPI and each dot maps to a pixel, trying to move 200 pixels requires a movement of 0.4mm. Set it down to 1,200 DPI and you have to move 4mm. 4mm is a lot easier for a person to do reliably than 0.4mm

[Dubesta11]

1 minute ago, M.Yurizaki said:

If I wanted to be pedantic, what's being described here is precision, not accuracy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision#ISO_Definition_.28ISO_5725.29 Since humans suck at being precise at minute distances, having a higher DPI is worse for your accuracy if you're trying to hit smaller targets (this can be anything from moving the mouse to a button to trying to aim at something).

 

I mean, a lot of high end mice these days offer a "sniper mode" which decreases the DPI. Considering that going into a "sniper mode" implies more accuracy, why would cutting down your precision be better?

Because "You shouldn't have to move your mouse by more than what closely resembles vibration in order to be*precise* " 

[meenmeen1103]

Get better friends

[Enderman]

It would be more accurate if you increase your DPI and then lower your sens in game.

But accuracy is not an issue with modern mice with great sensors.

That's why pros and even regular people play at less than 2k DPI and really low in game sensitivity.

What you're supposed to do is find a mouse+game sens combo that allows you to consistently hit your shots.

[Bananasplit_00]

i am around 1250dpi(not sure anymore because the sofrware for the mouse wont sync and i have no idea if i changed it lol) and i consider THAT high, more DPI does NOT mean better precition and cheaper mice can use acceleration for higher DPI to make it feel like a higher DPI when its infact just mooving more pixels per dot instead. a mouses accuracy depends on the sensor not the DPI max, playing at 12000 DPI is redicules and really stupid because you will never hit anything ever, not even when just using a browser. its crazy stupid.

19 minutes ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

Considering the fact that pro CS players tend to play at the lowest DPI settings possible, your friends are idiots.

not as low as possible, 600-1000, mice can go lower then that most just dont go bellow 800.

 

i have my mouse at 1250 dpi or whatever but in CS:GO i have it at 1.0 on the sensetivity and most games i need to turn down the sensitivity to 25 or 30 percent to make it playable at all so i dont just spin 8 gasilion milion degrees and i can actiually play the freaking game  i think in MC i have it at like 20% sensitivity to make it OK to play lol. 

 

 

basically your friends are retarded and have no idea what they are talking about, go lock there mice at 1000 dpi or something and make them play with that and watch them get way better after a few days of playing like a normal person and not an idiot

[Mira Yurizaki]

I found this: http://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-mouse-myths-busted/

 

Quote

“That is the reason why increasing DPI is very dangerous if you don’t understand, in terms of sensor design, what is the basic capability of the sensor. If you just spot for very high number of DPI, and your design thinking is on that only, you will fail. At the end you will have a system that is very poor. It is doing what you call spurious motion, that means you do nothing, you put the mouse on the table, and the cursor is just floating away, it’s picking the noise and creating counts. So this is the problem if you design it wrong. The right approach is to design it right for the low resolution, to make it strong and robust, and then see how much you can cut the slices in, but not to spot first for the high resolution, and then break everything in terms of design.”

Basically there's no real point to having high DPI in mice and gaming mice is basically filled with fluff and numbers. So yah, a $15 Amazon special is probably just as good as a $100 Logitech for all intents and purposes.

[woll3]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

So yah, a $15 Amazon special is probably just as good as a $100 Logitech for all intents and purposes.

 

Eh, no, with the most obv. factor being malfunction speed.

[2FA]

20 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

i am around 1250dpi(not sure anymore because the sofrware for the mouse wont sync and i have no idea if i changed it lol) and i consider THAT high, more DPI does NOT mean better precition and cheaper mice can use acceleration for higher DPI to make it feel like a higher DPI when its infact just mooving more pixels per dot instead. a mouses accuracy depends on the sensor not the DPI max, playing at 12000 DPI is redicules and really stupid because you will never hit anything ever, not even when just using a browser. its crazy stupid.

not as low as possible, 600-1000, mice can go lower then that most just dont go bellow 800.

 

i have my mouse at 1250 dpi or whatever but in CS:GO i have it at 1.0 on the sensetivity and most games i need to turn down the sensitivity to 25 or 30 percent to make it playable at all so i dont just spin 8 gasilion milion degrees and i can actiually play the freaking game  i think in MC i have it at like 20% sensitivity to make it OK to play lol. 

 

 

basically your friends are retarded and have no idea what they are talking about, go lock there mice at 1000 dpi or something and make them play with that and watch them get way better after a few days of playing like a normal person and not an idiot

I didn't literally mean as low as possible, jeez. Scream plays at 400 dpi with 2.0 sens last I knew.

[Bananasplit_00]

1 minute ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

I didn't literally mean as low as possible, jeez. Scream plays at 400 dpi with 2.0 sens last I knew.

yah thats 800DPI ingame, anyway i just thought i should clarify to anyone who didnt understand properly and litteraly thought "slam that shit at 200dpi and i am god at aiming!"

[Mira Yurizaki]

9 minutes ago, woll3 said:

Eh, no, with the most obv. factor being malfunction speed.

As in when the mouse starts showing signs of trouble after use? I've had a few $60+ gaming mice develop double clicks and such within a few years while basic mice are still trucking along.

[woll3]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

As in when the mouse starts showing signs of trouble after use? I've had a few $60+ gaming mice develop double clicks and such within a few years while basic mice are still trucking along.

 

No, its physical movement speed, not to mention the aforementioned noise, angle error, resolution error and motion latency.

 

Edit: Also the reason why some office mice last that long is due to higher debounce times which are causes button lag.

[Mira Yurizaki]

4 minutes ago, woll3 said:

No, its physical movement speed, not to mention the aforementioned noise, angle error, resolution error and motion latency.

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say because searching the web for these issues yields almost no relevant results.

 

4 minutes ago, woll3 said:

Edit: Also the reason why some office mice last that long is due to higher debounce times which are causes button lag.

Debounce doesn't cause button lag unless you're trying to rapidly press the button. Most software responds to a mouse click on the press, not the release. There's probably no hardware debouncing either because that requires extra hardware (and if you're trying to be cheap as possible, that's a no-no). If the debounce timing in the firmware is long, then my $15 mouse I bought for the office seems to be a heckuva deal because I can reliably pass the double click test on the mouse settings at its fastest.

[woll3]

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say because searching the web for these issues yields almost no relevant results.

Well, for beginners:

 

 

Just now, M.Yurizaki said:

Debounce doesn't cause button lag unless you're trying to rapidly press the button. Most software responds to a mouse click on the press, not the release. There's probably no hardware debouncing either because that requires extra hardware (and if you're trying to be cheap as possible, that's a no-no). If the debounce timing in the firmware is long, then my $15 mouse I bought for the office seems to be a heckuva deal because I can reliably pass the double click test on the mouse settings at its fastest.

 

Waiting x amount of time creates lag, there are methods to work around these but they arent commonly used, however a good example would be Logitech, where different times for pressing and releasing are being used, or A4Tech´s IR Switch series, alotough they have a weird bug.

 

Also i hope that you are aware that the MCU is already debouncing to make sure that nothing unintentional reaches the PC.