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Batteries Suck

BuckGup
By BuckGup
in General Discussion
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It is 2016 why do batteries still suck? We used Nicad in the 90s then Nimh in the 2000s and now we use LiPo and Lion. But they still suck! If we made batteries last longer every problem we currently have will be gone. Seriously think about it. It might take some hops from what it originally effects but you could cure world hunger. You can make phones last weeks, laptops last days, electric cars drive for thousands of miles. So why do batteries still suck?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Because energy conversion is difficult and inefficient. Materials don't like having electrons forcibly added and removed repeatedly.

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1 minute ago, Enderman said:

Because energy conversion is difficult and inefficient. Materials don't like having electrons forcibly added and removed repeatedly.

So there is no way to have a better battery?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

It is 2016 why do batteries still suck? We used Nicad in the 90s then Nimh in the 2000s and now we use LiPo and Lion. But they still suck! If we made batteries last longer every problem we currently have will be gone. Seriously think about it. It might take some hops from what it originally effects but you could cure world hunger. You can make phones last weeks, laptops last days, electric cars drive for thousands of miles. So why do batteries still suck?

The number one issue would be cost, there have been big steps made to improve capacity, charge rates, and longevity but most have not left the labs or proof of concepts. Also current materials and what we can do do with it has certain limitations to the current technology.

Edited by W-L

Updated Modding FAQ

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Posted
2 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

So there is no way to have a better battery?

Yeah there is, same way as making flying cars, fission reactors, quantum CPUs...

Lots of research and money.

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Posted
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Just now, Enderman said:

Yeah there is, same way as making flying cars, fission reactors, quantum CPUs...

Lots of research and money.

So your saying we have hit a wall?

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 minute ago, SamStrecker said:

So your saying we have hit a wall?

No, I'm saying it takes time and eventually it will get better.

Just like at some point in time computers became viable for consumers and good price/performance.

Everything takes time, you can't just throw money at something for research and immediately come up with better inventions (like you can in video games)

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10 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

So your saying we have hit a wall?

Batteries are extremely complicated and can be extremely dangerous if you are not careful. There are batteries in labs which do hold more energy than commercially available batteries but there's about a 95% chance of them detonating when you look at them funny. There are still massive strides being made in the capacity and output capabilities of battery technology. Batteries are just not one of the technologies where you can improve in leaps and bounds. It is, and always has been, a field where improvements take lots of time and research to achieve a small gain. Like you said in your original post were are still seeing a new makeup for cells become available about once every 10 years. If anything the rate the technology is improving is increasing.

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Every year I stumbled on some news which says: new break through in battery technology. 

 

And in the end no one even mentioned they are gonna implement it on smartphones and laptops. 

If it is not broken, let's fix till it is. 

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3 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

Every year I stumbled on some news which says: new break through in battery technology. 

 

And in the end no one even mentioned they are gonna implement it on smartphones and laptops. 

All that is just in labs and will be available in like 20 years. They basically click bait science 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, SamStrecker said:

All that is just in labs and will be available in like 20 years. They basically click bait science 

Lol. 

If it is not broken, let's fix till it is. 

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Batteries suck because we demand more out of our gizmos yet run on a material that is pretty much at its limit for holding a charge. And as it stands, lithium has the best energy to weight ratio for batteries. There might be alternatives that are as good or slightly worse with other benefits, but they've to reach commercial scale.

 

So if you can find some unobtainium that has a better energy to weight ratio, I'm all ears.

I have a blog! And a list of guides I've posted

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1 hour ago, SamStrecker said:

Seriously think about it. It might take some hops from what it originally effects but you could cure world hunger. You can make phones last weeks, laptops last days, electric cars drive for thousands of miles. So why do batteries still suck?

If only it weren't for those nasty 'Laws of physics' getting in the way of your brilliant plan for the Nobel Prize... And their little dog too!

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I'm satisfied with the batteries in my things. I don't buy alkaline batteries... I only buy Eneloop if I need AA or AAA.  They're amazing rechargeables, and I've used other brands in the past. Eneloop is definitely the best out there. Those go in all of my remote controls, game pads, keyboards, and my mouse. 

 

The other batteries that came in the things I own are working well, too.  My phone and iPad. Even my old GameBoy Advance and DSi have well-performing batteries still.  I haven't replaced the battery in my car since I've owned it. I bought it in Feb 2011. I've never had a BIOS battery die either. 

 

OP, what kind of batteries are you using that suck so much, and what are they powering?

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Graphene is the new tech.

LiPo is dangerous, only use it for hobby RC. Its great for high discharge.

There is 18650 in 3.5Ah and up to 30A discharge rates for about $4USD. Then there is LiFePO4 that you can get with 70A discharge rates but the price is much higher.

Battery technology is coming along fast.

 

Please if you vape, save your face and buy a high discharge brand name battery like Sony, LG and the like. Stay away from flashlight batteries.

 

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10 hours ago, Bhav said:

Rechargeable ones don't suck.

EDIT: I hate it when I mix up people with an OP...

 

Either way, it depends on what you mean by "suck."

"Do as I say, not as I do."

-Because you actually care if it makes sense.

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It all really depends on the material being used.

Even if the best materials are used there's a limit in real life of how much electrons move around and the space they can move in.

Higher cost batteries are of course better.

I bought x10 Chinese 18650 batteries for 30 USD. I used them to replace the battery cells of my laptop battery. The batteries I had were 3000 mAh and the ones I bought were 1500 mAh. So it holds one and a half hours. Originally, the battery could hold 3 to 4 hours of charge.

Basically more capacity + performance = higher cost because better production value.

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9 hours ago, TheBestUserName said:

I'm satisfied with the batteries in my things. I don't buy alkaline batteries... I only buy Eneloop if I need AA or AAA.  They're amazing rechargeables, and I've used other brands in the past. Eneloop is definitely the best out there. Those go in all of my remote controls, game pads, keyboards, and my mouse. 

 

The other batteries that came in the things I own are working well, too.  My phone and iPad. Even my old GameBoy Advance and DSi have well-performing batteries still.  I haven't replaced the battery in my car since I've owned it. I bought it in Feb 2011. I've never had a BIOS battery die either. 

 

OP, what kind of batteries are you using that suck so much, and what are they powering?

Firstly I am not talking about AA and AAA batteries as they mostly power low powered things so you can't really compare them to something like a phone. "Well performing" and lasting a long time are different things. You have to charge your phone every night and maybe ipad every other day. An ideal battery would last a week or atleast a couple days. As for your car well I hope you haven't had to replace it. They are lead acid and are always being charged by the alternator so the chances of one dying not because of temperature are slim. Same goes for a BIOS battery. Most motherboards now use power from the PSU even when it's off instead of the battery. But lets say it wasn't plugged in, what the battery is doing is so low powered a 200mah battery would make it last decades. 

 

If you look at Tesla's they weigh as much as a pickup truck due to the batteries. Also laptops? They are bad

8 hours ago, Bhav said:

Rechargable ones dont suck.

They do though. They are most likely Nimh which is cheap but heavy and bulky. Sure they power a small flashlight for months. But put it to use on anything else it will go dead really quickly

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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1 hour ago, SamStrecker said:

Firstly I am not talking about AA and AAA batteries as they mostly power low powered things so you can't really compare them to something like a phone. "Well performing" and lasting a long time are different things. You have to charge your phone every night and maybe ipad every other day. An ideal battery would last a week or atleast a couple days. As for your car well I hope you haven't had to replace it. They are lead acid and are always being charged by the alternator so the chances of one dying not because of temperature are slim. Same goes for a BIOS battery. Most motherboards now use power from the PSU even when it's off instead of the battery. But lets say it wasn't plugged in, what the battery is doing is so low powered a 200mah battery would make it last decades. 

Yeah but how often are you using the device? If I'm not mucking around with my phone as often as I do, it'll last for several days. Look at the era before smartphones were on the rise. We barely touched our phones (unless you were a texting fiend) and they would last all week.

 

Then again they also weren't fitted with GPS (which sucks power), trying to find a good 4G/3G signal, and running a bunch of other things. Some apps like to run in the background and never let the phone go into a deep sleep state.

 

Quote

If you look at Tesla's they weigh as much as a pickup truck due to the batteries.

Because it has to make up for the lack of not using fuel. Gasoline has an energy capacity of 34MJ/L and 46 MJ/kg. A typical lithium ion battery has an energy capacity of 2.6MJ/L and 0.875 MJ/kg at best. Already you're required to have 10 times the volume and 52 times the weight than a full tank of gas all other things considered equal (Which of course, everything around the vehicles isn't). A sandwich you can make at home has more energy capacity than a lithium ion battery.

 

So again, batteries only "suck" because we've tapped into one of the best materials for energy density. You're left with two choices: find a better battery material or make your components more efficient. But unfortunately you can't turn a sandwich into a charge carrier. At least not yet.

 

It wasn't too long ago we were complaining about how MPG hasn't improved all that much with vehicles... except a vehicle from today does a helluva lot more than one from the 80s. So if you really want your MPG, stop including so many damn optional features.

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17 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Yeah but how often are you using the device? If I'm not mucking around with my phone as often as I do, it'll last for several days. Look at the era before smartphones were on the rise. We barely touched our phones (unless you were a texting fiend) and they would last all week.

 

Then again they also weren't fitted with GPS (which sucks power), trying to find a good 4G/3G signal, and running a bunch of other things. Some apps like to run in the background and never let the phone go into a deep sleep state.

 

Because it has to make up for the lack of not using fuel. Gasoline has an energy capacity of 34MJ/L and 46 MJ/kg. A typical lithium ion battery has an energy capacity of 2.6MJ/L and 0.875 MJ/kg at best. Already you're required to have 10 times the volume and 52 times the weight than a full tank of gas all other things considered equal (Which of course, everything around the vehicles isn't). A sandwich you can make at home has more energy capacity than a lithium ion battery.

 

So again, batteries only "suck" because we've tapped into one of the best materials for energy density. You're left with two choices: find a better battery material or make your components more efficient. But unfortunately you can't turn a sandwich into a charge carrier. At least not yet.

I think what we need for cars isn't necessarily batteries, but rather a better fuel-based generator...

I'm not talking about nuclear cars, mind you. That's a terrifyingly stupid idea. Not because the cars could explode, but because it would be one of the most impractical applications of nuclear power that's ever been proposed.

I wonder what the numbers are for fuel cells...

 

But hey, maybe graphene could actually revolutionize batteries within the next few years, who knows. I hope I get to see what we can actually do with it.

"Do as I say, not as I do."

-Because you actually care if it makes sense.

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7 minutes ago, Dash Lambda said:

I think what we need for cars isn't necessarily batteries, but rather a better fuel-based generator...

I'm not talking about nuclear cars, mind you. That's a terrifyingly stupid idea. Not because the cars could explode, but because it would be one of the most impractical applications of nuclear power that's ever been proposed.

I wonder what the numbers are for fuel cells...

 

But hey, maybe graphene could actually revolutionize batteries within the next few years, who knows. I hope I get to see what we can actually do with it.

Or just nuclear plants to charge bad batteries

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, SamStrecker said:

Or just nuclear plants to charge bad batteries

But...

That wouldn't fix the problem here...

"Do as I say, not as I do."

-Because you actually care if it makes sense.

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Just now, Dash Lambda said:

But...

That wouldn't fix the problem here...

No it wouldn't....

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
13 hours ago, Canada EH said:

Graphene is the new tech.

LiPo is dangerous, only use it for hobby RC. Its great for high discharge.

There is 18650 in 3.5Ah and up to 30A discharge rates for about $4USD. Then there is LiFePO4 that you can get with 70A discharge rates but the price is much higher.

Battery technology is coming along fast.

 

Please if you vape, save your face and buy a high discharge brand name battery like Sony, LG and the like. Stay away from flashlight batteries.

 

The LiPo batteries used for RC applications omit any safety features entirely, relying upon the features of the charger/esc it's plugged in to so as to keep your large battery from turning your rc into a fireball. 

 

LiPo batteries used in consumer devices have built-in safety features to keep it from combusting. 

 

LifePO is a much safer choice as far as batteries go, far more durable, and can withstand staggering charge rates (0-full in 5 minutes), however, power density is very poor compared to LiPo as a result of reduced voltage. For RC applications, the lower voltage per cell translates to less power for the motor. 

My eyes see the past…

My camera lens sees the present…

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