How to make a graphics card run cooler in a pre-built PC?

[hsjj3]

Hi there everyone,

 

A week ago, I got a new GTX 960 SC as an upgrade for the GTX 750 SC I had been using. Both of these are similarly sized single-fan models from EVGA. However, to my disappointment, where the GTX 750 SC would only hit 70C max when under 100% GPU load, the GTX 960 SC was easily able to hit the 80C mark, at which point it gets the clock speeds throttled. The throttling isn't that much to be honest, and my Boost 2.0 speeds is still above the actual advertised boost clock of the GPU.

 

[At this point, given everything else is a constant, do you think the GTX 960 SC is defective or is the ~10C temperature difference completely normal between the two cards when under maximum load?]

 

As such, I was wondering, would it be possible for me to get the GPU to run a tad bit cooler?

 

I have a Dell Inspiron 660 pre-built PC (i5 3330 version w/ 8GB RAM), and the only components that are not stock are the PSU and GPU. Upgrading the casing is not an option at this point in time. I will do that at one go towards the end of the year when I upgrade my motherboard/CPU as well.

 

Photos of casing:
 
Front/back/side: http://i.stack.imgur.com/QalLB.jpg
 
Inside: http://i.stack.imgur.com/2FFrh.jpg

 

I would apreciate any and all feedback, as long as it is not something that is veering to the extreme.

 

Thanks!

[Guest]

The GTX 960 has a higher TDP, and since they are both using the same cooler, you can expect it to run hotter.

 

I think your problem is the lack of case fans...

[hsjj3]

1 minute ago, FTL said:

The GTX 960 has a higher TDP, and since they are both using the same cooler, you can expect it to run hotter.

 

I think your problem is the lack of case fans...

 

I do not believe they are both using the same cooler. Same fan, yes, but the cooling inside the GTX 960 SC definitely looks more sophisticated than the GTX 750 SC. I can see lots of orange-red copper inside the GPU for example.

 

How can I solve the problem of case fans? I really am open to suggestions, though I have never tinkedred with the fans in my PC.

[don_svetlio]

On 5/16/2016 at 7:11 AM, hsjj3 said:

 

I do not believe they are both using the same cooler. Same fan, yes, but the cooling inside the GTX 960 SC definitely looks more sophisticated than the GTX 750 SC. I can see lots of orange-red copper inside the GPU for example.

 

How can I solve the problem of case fans? I really am open to suggestions, though I have never tinkedred with the fans in my PC.

Besides adding case fans or getting a better vented case, nothing much you can do.

 

It's the same cooler btw.

[hsjj3]

When you say same cooler, do you refer to the fan or something else? Cause like I said, the GTX 960 SC is definitely heavier and the insides look much more intricately designed and there's visible copper compared to the GTX 750 SC.

[don_svetlio]

2 minutes ago, hsjj3 said:

When you say same cooler, do you refer to the fan or something else? Cause like I said, the GTX 960 SC is definitely heavier and the insides look much more intricately designed and there's visible copper compared to the GTX 750 SC.

Still single fan - a few more fins but it's the same design

[GreezyJeezy]

This is why I like big cards, Usally have 2 fans and a bigger heatsink 

[Nord]

Another option that could help, would be to get a hughe, dual fan (or more) CPU-cooler, with 1300+RPM fans. With most of them you get mounting options for pretty much all "modern" sockets, so you could carry it over to your new build aswell later.

The logic behind this would be, to remove your rear fan (unless its as fast as the CPU cooler would be) and essentialy use the CPU cooler for the cooling of the CPU aswell as for the airflow itself. As to see from your pics, the only frontintake you have, is at the bottom. So the majority of the air would be sucked in from there, moving essentialy from the bottom front to the middle top and gets then exhausted throu either the top-back or the PSU.

While with your current cooler its more like, suck air in from right above it, throu the open holes in the sidepanel and exhaust it just somewhere around itself. So you arent even creating a "windtunnel" effect in your case atm. due to the leak of a frontfan, which seems to be not an option as I dont see mounts.

 

Now behold, my amazing MS-paint skills:

What you currently have:  (Blue = intake air, Red = exhausted air)

What it should look like with my suggestion:

I dont expect this to do wonders, but your drive(s) will most certainly run cooler and I'd say 2 - 3° less on the GPU should be possible aswell.

 

Though you could also just try a more agressive fan curve on your GPU if you can stand the noise.

[hsjj3]

30 minutes ago, Nord said:

Another option that could help, would be to get a hughe, dual fan (or more) CPU-cooler, with 1300+RPM fans. With most of them you get mounting options for pretty much all "modern" sockets, so you could carry it over to your new build aswell later.

The logic behind this would be, to remove your rear fan (unless its as fast as the CPU cooler would be) and essentialy use the CPU cooler for the cooling of the CPU aswell as for the airflow itself. As to see from your pics, the only frontintake you have, is at the bottom. So the majority of the air would be sucked in from there, moving essentialy from the bottom front to the middle top and gets then exhausted throu either the top-back or the PSU.

While with your current cooler its more like, suck air in from right above it, throu the open holes in the sidepanel and exhaust it just somewhere around itself. So you arent even creating a "windtunnel" effect in your case atm. due to the leak of a frontfan, which seems to be not an option as I dont see mounts.

 

Now behold, my amazing MS-paint skills:

What you currently have:  (Blue = intake air, Red = exhausted air)

What it should look like with my suggestion:

I dont expect this to do wonders, but your drive(s) will most certainly run cooler and I'd say 2 - 3° less on the GPU should be possible aswell.

 

Though you could also just try a more agressive fan curve on your GPU if you can stand the noise.

 

Thank you good sir. This is incredibly helpful, especially to see how the air flows.

 

So, talking about my current setup, my GPU also pulls air from the sidepanels? I would have though the GPU pulls air from the rear PCI slots, since the GPU is located below the vent.

 

Also, my case fan at idle spins at 1100RPM, and my CPU fan at 500RPM. I don't know my PSU fan's speed at idle, but shouldn't all this mean that all that hot air is being sucked out from the case rather than getting stuck near the cables/DVD drive?

[hsjj3]

Would it be possible to get any cooler using just what I already have?

[Nord]

Usualy the GPU will exhaust its air directly at the back of your PC, right below where you'd plug in DVI/HDMI cables in the GPU itself, to verify it really does that, just make it heat up to idk, 75° and put your hand near the exhaust vent, if noticable hot air gets out - there you go.

 

Ofc if you have small intake holes at the back / near the PCI-E slots, air will also be sucked in from there. These holes are basically the lifeline of your GPU - I dont recall having ever layed eyes on a case that would not have these holes on the back. They are there to make sure your GPU gets air, no matter what.

In theory a case could have no intake & exhaust fans and 2 completly shut off sidepanels, which would mean the GPU would almost sufficate itself, if it were not for the the holes at the back. However these holes at the back are rather "bad" compared to other solutions, most PC's will usualy be placed under a table, hence the exhausted air will not get away "as easily" as one would guess and sooner or later will lead to the GPU sucking in mainly recycled air over and over instead of fresh air and hence lower its overall cooling the longer the system stays under stress. Unless you create a airflow in the room itself, like opening a window in room A and room B to make mother nature take care of that issue or so.

Little example to this from my own experiance with an GTX 970 & a CPU cooler simular to what I've suggest you.

-> Closed Sidepanel, 800RPM FAN rear, 500RPM fan front. GPU 83° with 74% fanspeed. - mobo max temp up to 38° under load.

-> sidepanel with intakes (like yours) same fan setup,  GPU 78° with 64% fanspeed. mobo max temp 35° under load.

 

 

And well you could just entirely remove your sidepanel, however that would kill the allready very low passive cooling you've got going on in your case.

Passive cooling is important for RAM, motherboard & HDD's (if you run multiple).

Also having no sidepanel invites dust and bugs at an alarming rate, is dangerous for pets and such and depending where your PC is located, even yourself if you'd accidently put your leg in it or smt.

 

If you just dont give a frak, you could just use a normal room-fan, like this: https://www.google.at/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjYvLi8i9_MAhUoJ5oKHVbKD1sQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hansenwholesale.com%2Fceilingfans%2Fminkaaire%2Fmodel.asp%3FProdNo%3DF300-BN&psig=AFQjCNGxw4DtlIo2GiWFRSVw0esQIRQ_XA&ust=1463505095323719

put it next to your PC, remove the panel, and let it blow in, I suppose you'd have one of these laying around and that method, while probably looking stupid, was enough for me back in the day to get a radeon 4890 working while the GPU-Fan was broken and not spinning, at least to the means of being able to get into windows.

Would take care of the passive cooling & dust issue at the least and will, most likely, depending on how good the room fan is, give somewhat between 5 - 10° differnces, though take care to not place it to closely, as it could, in theory, make slower RPM fans inside the case (looking at the CPU fan mostly here) take damage by making them running faster than they should be able to.

Other than that, I dont see anything you could do w/o investing money,

[hsjj3]

Yes, when I place my hand at the back of my PC, where the exhaust fan is located I feel cool air, while going lower where the GPU is located has hot air coming out (under load).

 

Thank you for the explanation. I do appreciate it. I was just hoping if there would be a simple but sensible method to reduce GPU temps by even 5C so that I do not have to worry about throttling when I hit 80C.

 

Would it also be possible to ask you to review my HW Monitor temperature readings for my motherboard, CPU, GPU and HDD? If these readings are within acceptable margins, I perhaps could worry less and rest easy.

 

Look at the MAX tab for my load temps, and look at the VALUE tab for my idle temps. Ignore MIN temps as those are on system startup.

 

 

 

[Nord]

No idea what those TZ00 and TMPIN temperatures are, cant find them in my Hwmonitor nor in Aida64.. so yea.

but if we ignore that, the rest seems totaly fine mostly.

 

HDD is "hot" with a max of 49°, but I guess it wont necesseraly stay at that temp most of the time, if we average the 41min to 49max, its still within margins. According to a google study (just google for: "google 2007 HDD study") the best temperature for an HDD is somewhere between 37 & 46°.

 

CPU is perfectly fine, unless you go above 81°+ I would not worry whatsoever.

Intel is usualy fine up untill 90°~ btw.

 

GPU is also ok with 81°, 9xx series is good up to 92°, however personaly I'd draw the line somewhere at 85° and as you correctly noticed, boost clock gets disabled at 80° usualy on most cards, unless you change it & the cards supports the change.

Interesting to not there, if the reading is correct, the GPU fan has only been at 43% aka 1600RPM while the card hit 81° .. which seems low to me, given it only has one fan as I assume?

I'd get MSI-afterburner and set a custom fan curve, or just lock the fan-speed at 65% and check if that helps with the temps.

 

 

[hsjj3]

Yes, only a single fan on the GPU. Indeed, I set my own custom fan curve. EVGA's default had it running at 0RPM <60C and then gradually to 40% RPM at 80C. I tweaked it to run 20% at idle, and then gradually to 45% at 80C. It gets noticeably loud at that point. I tried putting it to 60% initially, and weirdly enough I still hit 80C and get throttled almost as much as when the fan is at 45%. So to me, beyond 45% fan speed, there is very little returns at the expense of a lot more noise. Not worth it.

[WoodenMarker]

This is normal. The 750 is just a low power card that runs cooler than average. 

[Nord]

2 hours ago, hsjj3 said:

Yes, only a single fan on the GPU. Indeed, I set my own custom fan curve. EVGA's default had it running at 0RPM <60C and then gradually to 40% RPM at 80C. I tweaked it to run 20% at idle, and then gradually to 45% at 80C. It gets noticeably loud at that point. I tried putting it to 60% initially, and weirdly enough I still hit 80C and get throttled almost as much as when the fan is at 45%. So to me, beyond 45% fan speed, there is very little returns at the expense of a lot more noise. Not worth it.

Could be either, just a bad cooling solution on the card itself, which due to its formfactor would not be suprising, or simply just the issue with your case.

Try with the left-sidepanel removed and see if that gives you an temp improvement and if so by how much, so you can figure out which one it is. If it does not give you any improvements, than there is virtually nothing reasonable you can do to decrese the GPU-temperature.

 

[Waqas409]

Use it without Side Case / with Open Side.

[hsjj3]

Ok guys, I have been giving this some thought over the past couple of days. There are three options I thought to install a case intake fan:

 

1) In the front middle height of the case (circled red)

 

2) Further into the case, below the HDD (circled in red)

 

3) On my side vent. (circled)

 

 

 

Which will be the most logical and practical option of the three? Would it definitely reduce temperatures of my components, especially GPU and HDD, even if by just a few C?

 

Thanks!

[hsjj3]

Another option is to install the case fan in between the bezel. See here: http://www.manualslib.com/manual/418636/Dell-Inspiron-660.html?page=26#manual

 

There is a slot at the bottom front of the PC from which it can intake air.

 

Would appreciate all your ideas guys.

 

[Nord]

If you can fit them, the two at the front seems to be the best bet.

Bottom / behind the HDD, would give the best cooling to your GPU, while the second one, above the HDD cage would go mainly to the CPU/PSU and just a bit to the GPU -in terms of airflow: Still getting two is probably better than just one in that case.

Just make sure to dont overdo it with the intake fans, like dont buy 20€ fans that each move 2x the amount of air that your rear fan/gpu/psu could exhaust - or just purchase a better rear fan aswell.

However like I said in a previous post, I'd still try with the sidepanel open and see if that makes a difference in temps because if it does not, all of this would be useless anyway.

Btw. how old is your GPU anyway? Like how many years have you been using it allready? - if its 1 1/2+years just exchanging the thermal paste on it could help with temps aswell.

 

 

A fan in the sidepanel itself is not that usefull in your case, I assume you'd need to fit a 80MM or so anyway which would, without additional exhaust throu the top of the case, most likely end up in positive air-pressure aka too much air pulled in than being able to be pulled out, which results in less dust build up but in exchange higher temperatures compared to a negative or a balanced air pressure.

Usualy if you fit a big sidefan, you go 1x/2x intake front, 1x intake side, 1x exhaust back, 1x/2x exhaust top, to create proper airflow.

Or you'll just fit a normal fan, that would blow directly onto your CPU fan, which in your case is a.) probably not possible and b.) very useless for your issue and c.) so uneffective anyway that nobody really uses it anymore.

[hsjj3]

Ok thanks Nord. Today I will reopen my casing and see what can be done. I will use my current 92mm rear fan as a dummy.

 

Also Nord, can you look at the second link I pasted (to the manual of my PC). Would it be sensible to instead fit a fan within the bezel?

 

And, quite obviously my PC doesn't have any ready-made intake slots, so how would I screw/place the intake fan(s) in my casing?

 

Edit: My GPU is brand new (like a week old) but my CPU is 3.5 years old.

[Nord]

Try it and see what gives better results, inside the bezel or not.. cant really tell you whats better there.

 

You cant add top intakes into your case, either they are manufactured with them or they are not.

[hsjj3]

Ok, and how should I fasten the fans to my casing, given the fact that there are no specialized slots to place these fans?

[hsjj3]

Nord, just to reconfirm, if I place the fan below the HDD as I circled above, will it be pulling air from outside the case (via the front panel air slots), or will it be recycling air from within the case itself?

 

Also, I can use a "stick-on" method to affix it to the base of the casing, like a two-sided tape. Would this be a decent idea or a bad idea?

 

And finally, since this is somewhat into the case, would a dust filter still be required over the long term?

[hsjj3]

And Nord, one final question to you. You see confident that if I put the fan below the HDD, it will pull air fresh air from outside via the front-bottom of the case where there is are slots for air to come in.

 

Would that really be the case, or will it be the case of the fan recycling the hot air that is already within the casing?