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Can someone explain the Founders Edition

TubsAlwaysWins
By TubsAlwaysWins
in Graphics Cards
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Posted
Just now, SamStrecker said:

I think the founders card will be a bragging right thing

I want to say that it's a card for those that either want one early, have a small case and need a blower-type cooler, or simply those that want a reference design PCB for watercooling.

 

Or simply those that just want it for the looks.

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Posted
Just now, GlassBomb said:

I want to say that it's a card for those that either want one early, have a small case and need a blower-type cooler, or simply those that want a reference design PCB for watercooling.

 

Or simply those that just want it for the looks.

I don't see the point but hey people will buy it.

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
Just now, SamStrecker said:

I don't see the point but hey people will buy it.

Most of the people who will be buying it right away are those who just want the latest and greatest. Since I don't know how many other board partners will have third party coolers ready for this new line-up.

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38 minutes ago, GlassBomb said:

Most of the people who will be buying it right away are those who just want the latest and greatest. Since I don't know how many other board partners will have third party coolers ready for this new line-up.

Those crazies 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
Just now, SamStrecker said:

Those crazies 

I find those who buy the newest phones to be worst. Since they are literally updating that ~one a year. And the flagship devices cost what? $700?

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2 minutes ago, GlassBomb said:

I find those who buy the newest phones to be worst. Since they are literally updating that ~one a year. And the flagship devices cost what? $700?

Yup. Great example is the Iphones. A new $800 phone ever 6 months

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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Posted

No wonder Nvidia could throw such an expensive bash by releasing a 1080 at $699. UGH!

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They made the ''founder edition'' because 599$ sounds better than 699$...in reality no GTX 1080 will sell for 599$...the board partners are ''allowed'' to sell it for as low as 599$...but third party cards are usualy MORE expensive than reference cards...so i think the Reference cards (founders edition) will go for 699$...and ASUS Strix, MSI gaming, Gigabyte windforce etc. will sell for 749$ +...clever marketing nvidia...all of us thinking 599$...will turn out to be 749$ + tax and shipping...yéé!

| CPU: Core i7-8700K @ 4.89ghz - 1.21v  |  Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX Z370-E GAMING  |  CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i V2 |
| GPU: MSI RTX 3080Ti Ventus 3X OC  |  RAM: 32GB T-Force Delta RGB 3066mhz |
| Displays: Acer Predator XB270HU 1440p Gsync 144hz IPS Gaming monitor | Oculus Quest 2 VR

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2 hours ago, BradH said:

they arnt charging more for the "founders" card the first price is just a suggested price for others to sell there cards at most likely when evga or whoever gets them they will be 100-200 dollars more then the founder

Nvidia makes graphics cards, but they don't make the bulk of their money from cards. They make the bulk of their money selling parts kits to other manufacturers who make graphics cards from the kits. This puts them in competition with their own customers. In order to not undercut their own customers (undercutting your own customers is considered a bad thing), they overprice their own cards.

Sgt. Murphy says, "Never forget that your weapons and equipment were made by the lowest bidder."

 

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30 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

They made the ''founder edition'' because 599$ sounds better than 699$...in reality no GTX 1080 will sell for 599$...the board partners are ''allowed'' to sell it for as low as 599$...but third party cards are usualy MORE expensive than reference cards...so i think the Reference cards (founders edition) will go for 699$...and ASUS Strix, MSI gaming, Gigabyte windforce etc. will sell for 749$ +...clever marketing nvidia...all of us thinking 599$...will turn out to be 749$ + tax and shipping...yéé!

Really don't think so. 
The card over 699$ will be hybrid/water cooler designs or binned chips. 
The Gigabyte Xtrem and others of the same tier will be at 699$ The Gigabyte G1 gaming should be in between with basic cards being around 599$ 
This ain't a Ti ! 

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18 minutes ago, jwakeford said:

Really don't think so. 
The card over 699$ will be hybrid/water cooler designs or binned chips. 
The Gigabyte Xtrem and others of the same tier will be at 699$ The Gigabyte G1 gaming should be in between with basic cards being around 599$ 
This ain't a Ti ! 

it would be the first time EVER that we would see third party design cards selling for CHEAPER or same price as the reference cards then? ...

| CPU: Core i7-8700K @ 4.89ghz - 1.21v  |  Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX Z370-E GAMING  |  CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i V2 |
| GPU: MSI RTX 3080Ti Ventus 3X OC  |  RAM: 32GB T-Force Delta RGB 3066mhz |
| Displays: Acer Predator XB270HU 1440p Gsync 144hz IPS Gaming monitor | Oculus Quest 2 VR

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Just now, i_build_nanosuits said:

it would be the first time EVER that we would see third party design cards selling for CHEAPER than reference cards then? ...

Exactly. Nvidia has changed its marketing strategy to sell more cards. Does that sound so bizarre ? 

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2 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

it would be the first time EVER that we would see third party design cards selling for CHEAPER than reference cards then? ...

And in previous releases, the reference was equal to MSRP.
Now the reference is higher but that doesn't mean that 3rd party cards have follow the reference ( which they renamed founders edition because it is no more a reference ( no more base msrp price starting point reference ). 

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4 minutes ago, rrubberr said:

Top binned chips I think, they claim better overclockability. It sounds a bit too similar to the HD 7990, and we all know how much those top binned chips helped for power consumption and heat (AKA not even a little).

No. Just a reference card, I made the same mistake. Founders Edition cards are reference cards.

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Just now, jwakeford said:

And in previous releases, the reference was equal to MSRP.
Now the reference is higher but that doesn't mean that 3rd party cards have follow the reference ( which they renamed founders edition because it is no more a reference ( no more base msrp price starting point reference ). 

i just don't see Asus, msi, gigabyte etc. selling their cards for cheaper than the reference board...that's all...it never happened before and i really don't see why it would this time around.

| CPU: Core i7-8700K @ 4.89ghz - 1.21v  |  Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX Z370-E GAMING  |  CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i V2 |
| GPU: MSI RTX 3080Ti Ventus 3X OC  |  RAM: 32GB T-Force Delta RGB 3066mhz |
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5 minutes ago, rrubberr said:

Top binned chips I think, they claim better overclockability. It sounds a bit too similar to the HD 7990, and we all know how much those top binned chips helped for power consumption and heat (AKA not even a little).

For the love of god for the XXX time it is NOT binned. 

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1 minute ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

i just don't see Asus, msi, gigabyte etc. selling their cards for cheaper than the reference board...that's all...it never happened before and i really don't see why it would this time around.

because the reference is not a reference anymore maybe ? 

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2 minutes ago, jwakeford said:

because the reference is not a reference anymore maybe ? 

changing the name doesn't change the product...it's still nvidia's board design...and third party cards must AT LEAST meat that minimum quality of the reference board and in MOST cases they exceed it..and sometimes they exceed it by FAR...those cards cost more they usually have better capacitors, better and more expensive cooling solutions on them, cool custom design backplates and led lightings, better quality more expensive quieter fans etc...

| CPU: Core i7-8700K @ 4.89ghz - 1.21v  |  Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX Z370-E GAMING  |  CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i V2 |
| GPU: MSI RTX 3080Ti Ventus 3X OC  |  RAM: 32GB T-Force Delta RGB 3066mhz |
| Displays: Acer Predator XB270HU 1440p Gsync 144hz IPS Gaming monitor | Oculus Quest 2 VR

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1 minute ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

changing the name doesn't change the product...it's still nvidia's board design...and third party cards must AT LEAST meat that minimum quality of the reference board and in MOST cases they exceed it..and sometimes they exceed it by FAR...those cards cost more they usually have better capacitors, better and more expensive cooling solutions on them, cool custom design backplates and led lightings, better quality more expensive quieter fans etc...

Exactly, there is a Reference, but it is not sold to consumers, it is for the AIB partners.  
The FE is different. It HAS a backplate, it HAS better construction materials ( aluminum ), it HAS a new cooler design with a vapor chamber. 
It exceeds the reference.  
 

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4 minutes ago, jwakeford said:

Exactly, there is a Reference, but it is not sold to consumers, it is for the AIB partners.  
The FE is different. It HAS a backplate, it HAS better construction materials ( aluminum ), it HAS a new cooler design with a vapor chamber. 
It exceeds the reference.  
 

no, it IS the reference...it use the same old cooler it always has been aluminum with a vapor chamber and it does use the cheap ass loud blower fan cooler of the previous 4 gens of cards....it IS the reference card...it has a backplate and it's not a first the GTX TITAN and GTX 980 also had backplates on them...it's a reference board, sold for 699$ and whether you like it or not i'm 100% convinced that the MSI GTX 1080 Gaming 8G and the EVGA GTX 1080 ACX 3.0 for example will sell for MORE than that POS.

| CPU: Core i7-8700K @ 4.89ghz - 1.21v  |  Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX Z370-E GAMING  |  CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i V2 |
| GPU: MSI RTX 3080Ti Ventus 3X OC  |  RAM: 32GB T-Force Delta RGB 3066mhz |
| Displays: Acer Predator XB270HU 1440p Gsync 144hz IPS Gaming monitor | Oculus Quest 2 VR

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2 minutes ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

no, it IS the reference...it use the same old cooler it always has been aluminum with a vapor chamber and it does use the cheap ass loud blower fan cooler of the previous 4 gens of cards....it IS the reference card...it has a backplate and it's not a first the GTX TITAN and GTX 780ti also had backplates on them...it's a reference board, sold for 699$ and whether you like it or not i'm 100% convinced that the MSI GTX 1080 Gaming 8G and the EVGA GTX 1080 ACX 3.0 will sell for MORE than that POS.

if you won't click the link to read, here : 
 

  • Every single instance of “Founder's Edition” can be replaced with the word “Reference,” using previous-gen nomenclature. There is not one difference in its market positioning. They are synonymous. NVidia has replaced its “Reference” name with “Founder's Edition.”

  • There are not two GTX 1080 models made by nVidia. Only the “Founder's Edition” exists; there is not a cheaper card made by nVidia than the $700 Founder's Edition, which ships first.

  • Just to be clear: nVidia is making one official GTX 1080 and one official GTX 1070 model.

  • The “Founder's Edition” is not specially binned.

  • The “Founder's Edition” is not pre-overclocked.

  • The “Founder's Edition” uses the new industrial design and cooler from nVidia. Historically, this is what we would call the “reference cooler.” The cooler is more-or-less identical to the previous reference models. It's got vapor chamber cooling, a VRM blower fan, and a large alloy heatsink under the shroud. There is a backplate on the GTX 1080 Founder's Edition.

  • This card is not "limited edition," despite its name that would indicate as much, and will run production through the life of the GTX 1080 product line.

That stated, let's talk about the cheaper MSRP models.

This is, in our analysis of the situation, nVidia's way of avoiding competing with its own partners in the space. The Founder's Edition will cost $700. The MSRP is $600 – so vendors like MSI, EVGA, ASUS, et al. can enter market with cards cheaper than nVidia's own, throw their own coolers on them, and overclock them differently. The vendors will exercise similar control and design/engineering over their versions of the GTX 1000 series as with previous generations. Also as with previous generations, nVidia's version of the card (now "Founder's Edition") uses heavy materials that can run-up the cost. That metal shroud will run-up the BOM more than a plastic shroud from an AIB.

NVidia wanted to land at the center of the stack, providing room for vendors to undercut nVidia reference – err, “Founder's Edition” – prices, but also allowing room for higher-end cards >$700. Drawing parallels to the GTX 900 series, a higher-priced card might be something like EVGA's GTX 980 Ti Hybrid, which ran ~$750-$770 at first launch. This was a marked increase against the MSRP of $650, but offered features which helped carve its own price bracket.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, jwakeford said:

snip!

alright we'll have to agree to disagree until the third party design cards actually launch and we can see how much a better design actually bump UP the cost...and not down.

| CPU: Core i7-8700K @ 4.89ghz - 1.21v  |  Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX Z370-E GAMING  |  CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i V2 |
| GPU: MSI RTX 3080Ti Ventus 3X OC  |  RAM: 32GB T-Force Delta RGB 3066mhz |
| Displays: Acer Predator XB270HU 1440p Gsync 144hz IPS Gaming monitor | Oculus Quest 2 VR

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1 minute ago, rrubberr said:

My reference Titan X didn't come with a backplate. $1100 for the reference card didn't get anybody one, from what I've heard.

might be wrong with the titan then...maybe it was the 780ti that had a backplate?

anyways one thing for sure the GTX 980 had one...here is a picture of it:

 

GTX-680-airflow-removal_w_600.jpg

 

 

| CPU: Core i7-8700K @ 4.89ghz - 1.21v  |  Motherboard: Asus ROG STRIX Z370-E GAMING  |  CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i V2 |
| GPU: MSI RTX 3080Ti Ventus 3X OC  |  RAM: 32GB T-Force Delta RGB 3066mhz |
| Displays: Acer Predator XB270HU 1440p Gsync 144hz IPS Gaming monitor | Oculus Quest 2 VR

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1 minute ago, i_build_nanosuits said:

alright we'll have to agree to disagree until the third party design cards actually launch and we can see how much a better design actually bump UP the cost...and not down.

Fine by me. 

 

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