FISA court hasn't rejected a single request in 2 years

[Enderman]

5 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

And 50 years ago we didn't even had widespread computers and further back not at all and we had people going to great lengths to spy on others. Or do you think rules of evidence and provisions against illegal search and seizure were basically just nonsense nobody ever complained about too?

spying has always been a thing and it always will be

whether you complain about it or not

 

unless youre doing something illegal, there is no reason why you would be spied on, so why live your life in paranoia when instead you can do something productive

[Misanthrope]

12 minutes ago, Enderman said:

spying has always been a thing and it always will be

whether you complain about it or not

 

unless youre doing something illegal, there is no reason why you would be spied on, so why live your life in paranoia when instead you can do something productive

So you're saying as long as we're spied upon there's nothing to do? Can you honestly fail to see that your position has 0 nuance, than there are vastly different levels of spying and actions taken? Do you really think the spying going on in the US is comparable to the spying on say, North Korea where merely putting any kind of disincentive opinion in writing will get you jailed or executed? Do you think that the US cops overstepping their boundaries with surveillance and spying is comparable to Mexican cops who spy on people to select kidnapping targets or aid drug lords by using state resources is the same because well, syping is spying and a spade's a spade?

 

The rights of individual freedom cover just more than "the rights of the individuals who strictly and absolutely adhere to the law, even laws that history has proven to be morally bankrupt like slavery and state sanctioned discrimination" which is the conclusion we would arrive to if it was up to people holding your position: I'm not doing anything wrong so I'm an open book. 

[Enderman]

15 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

I'm not doing anything wrong so I'm an open book. 

You don't do anything wrong when you're out in public, therefore you're not afraid of people seeing you

 

On the other hand, a robber who is stealing from a store, IS concerned about being seen because he is doing something wrong and there are consequences to that

[spartaman64]

13 minutes ago, Enderman said:

You don't do anything wrong when you're out in public, therefore you're not afraid of people seeing you

 

On the other hand, a robber who is stealing from a store, IS concerned about being seen because he is doing something wrong and there are consequences to that

 watch this ted talk it has some very interesting ideas

[LAwLz]

Remember people, mass surveillance is bad even if you do nothing wrong. Unconscious self-censoring is a real phenomenon that people exhibit when being spied on. It's not something tin-foil hat people are making up. Several studies proves it. It is a real threat to freedom of speech, freedom of though and democracy.

 

 

Even if you think that democracy is bad, and oppressing people is a good thing you should still be against all this mass surveillance because it it actively harms the fight against terrorists.

The people behind the Paris attack were known terrorists, and it was known that they were plotting attacks. Prosecutors asked multiple times for extra surveillance on the people involved long before the attack occurred, but it was turned down because of capacity issues. To put it in other words, the government was too busy spying on you to actually spy on known terrorists that were suspected to plan an attack.

That is fucking retarded... If you want to fight against terrorism then you should be against this.

 

 

If the real life example is too hard for you to understand, think of it this way.

You have a haystack and you want to find the needle in it. You already know that the needle is in there somewhere. While you are searching though it your boss walks up and say "hey, I just found three times as much hay. My gut is telling me that there might be another needle in this stack. I'll just dump it here with the rest". Then he dumps the hay over you and all of a sudden you got three times as much hay to search though, but you are still only know that there is 1 needle in the for sure.

 

 

Does that sound like a good idea? It does not sound good to me, and I don't think the 130 people that died in the Paris attack would think it was a good idea to spy on the average Joe talking to his friends instead of spying on the terrorists that they were killed by either.

 

 

 

 

 

On another note, 26 out of 28 FBI examiners working at the FBI lab for microscopic hair comparison have been found guilty of lying about the results of their tests (saying that a match is better than it really was).

You would have to be a complete moron to trust the FBI with backdoors when 26 out of 28 examined FBI employees have been found to lie about test results, which have lead to 32 people being sentenced to death based partially on falsified evidence by the FBI.

 

If you still trust the FBI, who are known for lying about evidence just to prosecute someone, with a backdoor to your computer that could be used to plant false evidence, then I don't know what to say.

[Orangeator]

4 hours ago, Enderman said:

You don't do anything wrong when you're out in public, therefore you're not afraid of people seeing you

 

On the other hand, a robber who is stealing from a store, IS concerned about being seen because he is doing something wrong and there are consequences to that

Are you a communist, do you want a dictatorship? Look at North Korea... No privacy from the government, how happy are they? When you just give up and let the government control your life, they will, to their liking... Not yours. 

[Okjoek]

Oligarchy

[Totallycasual]

I wonder how many more decades the western world will go in this police state, corporate power, rich get richer type direction before there is a massive uprising from the people, right now its mostly left wing crackpot extremist paranoid types that think we're heading down this path but i honestly think if we don't do something about the stranglehold corporations have over every aspect of our lives we're heading down a very dangerous path. 

[stconquest]

9 hours ago, Enderman said:

10 years ago all of this spying was also going on and nobody complained because nobody knew about it

now people know about it and they complain and they still dont do anything about it other than make posts online to "raise awareness" aka "im doing enough"

just like people "raise awareness" by putting french flags on their profile pictures to pretend they care while ignoring the other 50 million people who are dying

 

what a bunch of hypocrites

I can see where you are coming from.  It is not the best of places.  I think that is why the guys here are on you.  You don't have to act to stop it, that is a choice.  Knowing what is right and wrong is a choice as well.  What the US government has been doing in the global theater of war for the past 50+ years is more often than not, wrong. 

 

People do try to stop it.  There have been movements all over the world to stop authorities from running amuck.  Foregoing all out war against the government (which happens in some countries), a consolidated show of force from the population is all the US community has.  Any misunderstanding of these situations, like mass surveillance, are detrimental to the country's population; it means you are one less person that can direct others to understanding what this kind of crap equates to:  less political control for every US citizen.

 

I had absolutely no say in regard to Canada assisting the USA in the middle east for the past 15 years.  I know I am just one, but I can't be the only one that would not want anything to do with bombing foreign countries because of paranoia.  That what the past 15 years of war have been.  A war fought with the aid of public paranoia, mass ignorance.  If 100% of the regular citizenry in the USA was against going to get big bad Osama, that campaign would have ended much sooner and how many seemingly countless lives would have been spared?  The US went into that war with little evidence to present to the congress, and still has very little to this day.  lol, they dumped his body in the ocean... that sounds so fucked up. 

 

I digress, I seem to be going off topic.  In a way this is just flowing in the right direction.  It is all connected to the US population losing control of authoritarian efforts that are not for the betterment of that population... just like here in Canada.

 

You don't have to pretend you are changing the world, just know if there really is a side to be on.  At risk of sounding any more aggressive towards you:  you seem to think the sides the government lays out are the only ones... us or them type shit.  Many issues, many sides.

 

 

[Katorice]

On 5/1/2016 at 10:31 PM, Enderman said:

What are you doing to stop it?

Are you starting protests on the street in front of the FBI buildings?

lol

 

if you think making a post on an internet forum about how bad the FBI is is "doing something about it" then you probably need to step back and think a bit more

 

it was an analogy

youre not doing anything about it, and thats the truth

why lie to yourself and say "oh i care about them, i think of them all the time, I'm so sorry millions of people are dying"

yeah that totally makes a difference

"I don't care. ipso facto, you shouldn't"

"You will not do anything about it, so do not speak of it"

[thekeemo]

3 hours ago, Orangeator said:

Are you a communist, do you want a dictatorship? Look at North Korea... No privacy from the government, how happy are they? When you just give up and let the government control your life, they will, to their liking... Not yours. 

Happier than you would think. Ignorance is bliss.

[Katorice]

1 hour ago, thekeemo said:

Happier than you would think. Ignorance is bliss.

don't we know it!

[Paralectic]

fuk murica

[stconquest]

1 hour ago, AlexTheRose said:

Life has many doors, ed-boy! Yes?

 

I feel like the overarching issue Enderman has with this discussion is simply a lack of perspective. They see themselves, their immediate surroundings, and what they immediately care about, and that’s their world – in its entirety. Depending on how old they are it could simply be that their brain isn’t finished developing to be able to deal with massive concepts like this. Don’t know for sure though.

To be fair, I am indoctrinated in a similar way.  I have had a good life up to this point, really good.  To imagine that many good things I have grown accustomed to and experienced are/were at the expense of someone else, somewhere else, is heart-wrenching. 

 

It is not a good experience to realize how the global fabric of give and take is abused by individuals and groups, when they find it advantageous.  Most people growing up the way I did will not hesitate to help each other out if there is a need.  Being of use to others feels good.

 

I had a few friends growing up that were abusive in this manner, right up into their 20's (and maybe longer, IDK).  They would drag others on detrimental escapades.  If things go wrong, it would never be considered their fault.  Those relationships were severed, many of them were friendships from early life (4-5years old).  Part of the reason was that I started recognizing the difference between right and wrong, and was very willing to act on it:  I have your back, until you needlessly start stabbing innocent people in their back.  These situations were almost always violent.  I cringe and revel in fear when recalling some of the situations.  I was even at fault some of the time;  twice.  I could have gotten people killed.  I remember my mistake with fervor.  I do not know what it would have been like to have caused someone harm or death, I was lucky in that respect.

 

That was my growing up.  Ultimately I had my own mistakes to reflect on, to assess the risk I put others in.  That was enough to change my way of thinking.  Things snowball in ways you never expect when you start caring about the difference between right and wrong.  War was a huge journey of discovery for me, this came later on in my years (24+).

 

I will always understand where statements like:  There will always be war, come from.  I will never embrace that rationale though.  It does not make sense to me.