Objective soundstage Beats by Dr. Dre?

[Vizard424]

Totally kidding about that title...but really I've got a question for you audio gurus out there.

 

I know how you can measure objectively the "sound" of a set of headphones, and in its most simplest terms can be summarized into a frequency graph (I know it's much more complicated than that). A neutral set of headphones will produce a "flat" or "ideal" frequency response curve.

 

Then how do you objectively measure the other flashy audiophile words? What represents "detail"? Above all how do you measure soundstage? How can you objectively measure a headphone's soundstage and directly compare it to another headphone's soundstage?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Vizard424 said:

Above all how do you measure soundstage? How can you objectively measure a headphone's soundstage and directly compare it to another headphone's soundstage?

You cant, its personal feeling.

[ShadowCaptain]

I am not sure how you would "measure" or "represent" a soundstage

 

but you can certainly hear the difference, and compare it to other headphones, for example, playing live music that has been recorded properly, and you can actually feel how far away each instrument is, and where each person is sat

 

One word to note, nothing in audio, is objective (outside of frequency graphs but even then peoples ears hear frequencies differently)
 

[johnt]

A flat response is great for people with absolutely perfect hearing. I've never enjoyed headphones with a flat curve.

 

Nearly all of the items you mention, soundstage, detail, etc., are generally subjective between two headphones for each listener. That's why I always recommend trying multiple headphones before committing.

[Sanderman135]

There isn't really a measurement for the sound stage of a pair of headphones. It's all dependent on the person wearing them and how they hear it. 

[SSL]

Soundstage and what creates it in headphones is poorly understood. There is no objective way to measure or quantify it. It's highly dependent on the ears of the individual as well, which means there is no one size fits all solution.

 

There isn't any clear measure of detail, either. Over the past few years there has been the rise of terms like "micro-dynamics" and "micro-detail" in audiophile circles (head-fi, changstar/SBAF) in order to further separate the "goldenears" from the common rabble. These terms are even less well-defined; supposedly you'll "know when you hear them".

 

A headphone that measures flat will NOT produce a neutral response. The human ear is not equally sensitive to all frequencies.

 

[Vizard424]

I think I get how everybody has subjective hearing and it's truly up to the individual, but why do we get some what consistent reviews on how each headphone sounds? For example most people review the Audio Technica ATH-M50X as having little to no soundstage, where audio sounds very much on your ears as opposed to something like AKG K553 which most people argue sound very expansive?

Just out of curiosity, is there somewhere besides headphone.com that also has frequency response curves? And what makes a neutral response? Would it be safe to assume that if I have a particular set of headphones that I enjoy, I would also enjoy other headphones with similar frequency response curves?

[BrightCandle]

I actually don't know what characteristic of the objective measures of headphones produces sound stage and what you would look for. There must be an objective measure of it because well scientifically we can quantify it and people by and large agree on the headphones that produce it. You could likely make a good guess based on the various objective measures comparing well known wide sound stage verses narrow headphones but its bound to produce some false positives as well.

[spwath]

16 minutes ago, Vizard424 said:

I think I get how everybody has subjective hearing and it's truly up to the individual, but why do we get some what consistent reviews on how each headphone sounds? For example most people review the Audio Technica ATH-M50X as having little to no soundstage, where audio sounds very much on your ears as opposed to something like AKG K553 which most people argue sound very expansive?

Just out of curiosity, is there somewhere besides headphone.com that also has frequency response curves? And what makes a neutral response? Would it be safe to assume that if I have a particular set of headphones that I enjoy, I would also enjoy other headphones with similar frequency response curves?

innerfidelity has more FR graphs, but you can not dirrectly put them up against each other.

An example if you click one of the PDF links:

https://www.google.com/search?q=innerfidelity+beats&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#safe=strict&q=innerfidelity+beats+measurements

Sorry, cant link the actuall page, innerfidelity is blocked at my school for some reason.

[johnt]

1 minute ago, spwath said:

innerfidelity has more FR graphs, but you can not dirrectly put them up against each other.

An example if you click one of the PDF links:

https://www.google.com/search?q=innerfidelity+beats&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#safe=strict&q=innerfidelity+beats+measurements

Sorry, cant link the actuall page, innerfidelity is blocked at my school for some reason.

 

Because it sounds like a porn site

[spwath]

1 minute ago, JohnT said:

 

Because it sounds like a porn site

Actually it says its blocked because its spam.

It also says NCIX is spam.

[johnt]

Just now, spwath said:

Actually it says its blocked because its spam.

It also says NCIX is spam.

But LTT isn't... Sorry Jack