Is it legal for a teacher to do this? [UK]

[Benji_w]

A DEVICE IS A PHYSICAL OBJECT IT IS PART OF A PHYSICAL SEARCH! If we are disregarding searching a device as a PHYSICAL SEARCH then there IS NO LAW OR RIGHT TO SEARCH A PHONE.

[Benji_w]

See, again, that's based on a physical search and you're assuming the student did not have the phone in plain sight, nor did they admit to having it.

If a teacher went up to a student, demanded to have the phone, and the student complied, they are open to the rest of the act.

For example a law enforcement officer can demand that you unlock your phone. You don't have to, but if you choose to, then you're open to whatever they find.

The student didn't have to give over their phone, they did, thus they are open to the rest of the act.

Same goes if the phone was in plain sight. If the teacher can see it, then they can confiscate it, especially if said device is banned by the school (contraband).

 

Said information would not fall under the pornographic images section, as that's not what the teacher was looking for.

Who's to say there was no witness?

Also note at the end it says "Anything banned in the school rules". Since we don't have a copy of said rules, it could be mentioned there.

 

Assumptions, of course, but given we don't know exactly what happened that's all we have to go on.

 

 

I never had a phone searched because it's illegal for a tutor to do it. I've had a phone confiscated, it is removed from my person then turned off. But you better believe that if an emergency happens the school is in trouble. 

[DebatED Nothing]

-snip-

In your own post you have quoted several clauses stating a single teacher can search a phone with good reason. "Where the person conducting the search finds an electronic device they may examine any data or files on the device if they think there is a good reason to do so." The teacher does not have to search the student to acquire the phone, the phone is confiscated as they are allowed to do thereby circumventing the need for a physical search. The laws you quoted also give good grounds to copy files they think break school rules "If inappropriate material is found on the device it is up to the teacher to decide whether they should delete that material, retain it as evidence (of a criminal offence or a breach of school discipline) or whether the material is of such seriousness that it requires the involvement of the police."

[DebatED Nothing]

A DEVICE IS A PHYSICAL OBJECT IT IS PART OF A PHYSICAL SEARCH! If we are disregarding searching a device as a PHYSICAL SEARCH then there IS NO LAW OR RIGHT TO SEARCH A PHONE.

Yes there is. There is exactly that in the law you quoted in your own post. The teacher does not have to physically search the student, so the laws regarding physical searches do not apply.

[bob345]

i remember way back when i was in middleschool, a teacher did just that and got fired. not sure how it is in the uk, but its definitely illegal in the us.

[Benji_w]

In your own post you have quoted several clauses stating a single teacher can search a phone with good reason. "Where the person conducting the search finds an electronic device they may examine any data or files on the device if they think there is a good reason to do so." The teacher does not have to search the student to acquire the phone, the phone is confiscated as they are allowed to do thereby circumventing the need for a physical search. The laws you quoted also give good grounds to copy files they think break school rules "If inappropriate material is found on the device it is up to the teacher to decide whether they should delete that material, retain it as evidence (of a criminal offence or a breach of school discipline) or whether the material is of such seriousness that it requires the involvement of the police."

 

Please read the PDF,

 

 

 

1. Can I search?

• Yes, if you are a headteacher or a member of school staff and authorised by the

headteacher.

2. Under what circumstances?

• You must be the same sex as the pupil being searched; and there must be a witness

(also a staff member) and, if at all possible, they should be the same sex as the pupil

being searched.

• There is a limited exception to this rule. You can carry out a search of a pupil of the

opposite sex to you and without a witness present, but only where you reasonably

believe that there is a risk that serious harm will be caused to a person if you do not

conduct the search immediately and where it is not reasonably practicable to summon

another member of staff.

Also note:

• The law also says what must be done with prohibited items which are seized following

a search.

• The requirement that the searcher is the same sex as the pupil and that a witness is

present will continue to apply in nearly all searches. Where it is practicable to summon

a staff member of the same sex as the pupil and a witness then the teachers wishing

to conduct a search must do so.

[Sauron]

He can take the phone, but what's on it is none of his business

[DebatED Nothing]

1. Can I search?

• Yes, if you are a headteacher or a member of school staff and authorised by the

headteacher.

2. Under what circumstances?

• You must be the same sex as the pupil being searched; and there must be a witness

(also a staff member) and, if at all possible, they should be the same sex as the pupil

being searched.

• There is a limited exception to this rule. You can carry out a search of a pupil of the

opposite sex to you and without a witness present, but only where you reasonably

believe that there is a risk that serious harm will be caused to a person if you do not

conduct the search immediately and where it is not reasonably practicable to summon

another member of staff.

This is for a physical search, NOT for searching a phone or other electronic device.

[Benji_w]

 

This is for a physical search, NOT for searching a phone or other electronic device.

 

 

Please read the pdf...

 

It clearly states if a device is found during the search then it can be confiscated not searched. Even if the phone was on a desk, there is nothing to say a teacher can breach privacy laws.

[Benji_w]

He can take the phone, but what's on it is none of his business

 

THANK YOU I FEEL LIKE I'M THE ONLY SANE ONE HERE!!! 

 

*Nervous twitching*

 

The phone can be confiscated, IT CANNOT BE SEARCHED WITHOUT REASON AND WITHOUT A WITNESS

[Sauron]

THANK YOU I FEEL LIKE I'M THE ONLY SANE ONE HERE!!! 

 

*Nervous twitching*

 

The phone can be confiscated, IT CANNOT BE SEARCHED WITHOUT REASON AND WITHOUT A WITNESS

 

My question is, why did the kid unlock it? I'm pretty sure the teacher wouldn't have dared tell his parents something like that, nor call the headmaster - and if he had, he'd have shot himself on the foot hardcore.

[DebatED Nothing]

Please read the pdf...

 

It clearly states if a device is found during the search then it can be confiscated not searched. Even if the phone was on a desk, there is nothing to say a teacher can breach privacy laws.

I agree with you that this law is not fair. That is not my point. My point is that the law states that if they acquire a phone by search or by plain confiscation without searching, then they can go through the phone within the law provided they have grounds to do so. If they are not searching the pupil, then (shockingly), the laws about searching a pupil don't apply.

"Where the person conducting the search finds an electronic device they may examine any data or files on the device if they think there is a good reason to do so. Following an examination, if the person has decided to return the device to the owner, or to retain or dispose of it, they may erase any data or files, if they think there is a good reason to do so."

[babadoctor]

take my phone teacher

i fucking dare you

i will blast shrek ear rape through your fucking laptop

[babadoctor]

I agree with you that this law is not fair. That is not my point. My point is that the law states that if they acquire a phone by search or by plain confiscation without searching, then they can go through the phone within the law provided they have grounds to do so. If they are not searching the pupil, then (shockingly), the laws about searching a pupil don't apply.

"Where the person conducting the search finds an electronic device they may examine any data or files on the device if they think there is a good reason to do so. Following an examination, if the person has decided to return the device to the owner, or to retain or dispose of it, they may erase any data or files, if they think there is a good reason to do so."

He sees you when your shitposting

He knows when your online

He knows if you are a normie or not so for goodness sake GET OFF OF MY BOARD REEEEEEE

[Admiral Naismith]

I'd throw the phone at the ground rather than let a teacher 'go through my phone'.

 

Then again I'm an American and overreacting to the British possibly infringing my rights is in my blood.

 

In the U.S. at least this would get the teacher at least temporarily suspended. I imagine it's the same over there if you throw a big enough fuss, otherwise there is a chance that the wording in the laws that allows this sort of thing and the teacher when full authoritarian with it.

[dizmo]

OP, I do hope you update is with any information you do find out. I'd be interested to see which one of us is right.

 

 

I never had a phone searched because it's illegal for a tutor to do it. I've had a phone confiscated, it is removed from my person then turned off. But you better believe that if an emergency happens the school is in trouble. 

Most of the time, yes, it is illegal for a tutor (notice how it's not a teacher) to do that
In this case, given the circumstances, it was not.

I'm with you, I kind of get where you're coming from, but I don't think you're taking all of the facts into account.

 

i remember way back when i was in middleschool, a teacher did just that and got fired. not sure how it is in the uk, but its definitely illegal in the us.

Definitely different, I believe it's the same here in Canada. Especially if the device has a lock on it.

Unless we're getting accused of terrorism Which is an awfully broad term.

 

In the US a password is protected under the 5th Amendment as it's been considered "intellectual property".

The same is not true elsewhere in the world, and in the UK people have been jailed for not turning over passwords before.

 

He can take the phone, but what's on it is none of his business

In most places no, but we're talking about the nanny state known as the UK here...

The laws are a little different.

 

THANK YOU I FEEL LIKE I'M THE ONLY SANE ONE HERE!!! 

 

*Nervous twitching*

 

The phone can be confiscated, IT CANNOT BE SEARCHED WITHOUT REASON AND WITHOUT A WITNESS

Again the witness was for a physical search, which was never being discussed here.

 

My question is, why did the kid unlock it? I'm pretty sure the teacher wouldn't have dared tell his parents something like that, nor call the headmaster - and if he had, he'd have shot himself on the foot hardcore.

Exactly what I was thinking. I'm thinking he handed over the phone, with it unlocked, when demanded to do so.

I don't know anyone who doesn't have a password on their phone these days. You know, them nudes.

That said, I don't think the teacher would have gotten in trouble.

 

He sees you when your shitposting

He knows when your online

He knows if you are a normie or not so for goodness sake GET OFF OF MY BOARD REEEEEEE

See, it's not shitposting though. Technically what you posted is shitposting; it's not helping in the conversation what-so-ever.

I'm not even really sure why you posted it TBH.

 

I'd throw the phone at the ground rather than let a teacher 'go through my phone'.

 

Then again I'm an American and overreacting to the British possibly infringing my rights is in my blood.

 

In the U.S. at least this would get the teacher at least temporarily suspended. I imagine it's the same over there if you through a big enough fuss, otherwise there is a chance that the wording in the laws that allows this sort of thing and the teacher when full authoritarian with it.

Wouldn't want them to burn down the White House again, right?

Haha, I kid.

 

The UK is very different law wise than the US.

[Benji_w]

I agree with you that this law is not fair. That is not my point. My point is that the law states that if they acquire a phone by search or by plain confiscation without searching, then they can go through the phone within the law provided they have grounds to do so. If they are not searching the pupil, then (shockingly), the laws about searching a pupil don't apply.

"Where the person conducting the search finds an electronic device they may examine any data or files on the device if they think there is a good reason to do so. Following an examination, if the person has decided to return the device to the owner, or to retain or dispose of it, they may erase any data or files, if they think there is a good reason to do so."

 

The person conducting the search must have a witness present... it's that simple, or in court it's my word against yours, just like when a solo police officer pulled me over for speeding, he couldn't prove it, and I had a full license after he realised he couldn't intimidate me into self prosecution.

 

Phone on desk, can't take it, have to ask for the item.

Phone in bag, or on person, cannot be obtained without physical search, of which there needs to be a witness.

 

Sorry kid, but I wouldn't hire you as my defense cause you'd be the prosecutor's lap dog. FYI, I've been in court, there needs to be witnesses and evidence, one person can obtain evidence but it needs to be done legally and in this instance there needs to be a witness.

[Benji_w]

 

Most of the time, yes, it is illegal for a tutor (notice how it's not a teacher) to do that

In this case, given the circumstances, it was not.

I'm with you, I kind of get where you're coming from, but I don't think you're taking all of the facts into account.

 

 

 

You cited a physical search in your original reply mate... give me a fucking break... I cited, what you cited, so in reality you're nullifying your own point... FYI a tutor is a teacher.

[BuckGup]

In the US you need a warrant to search it as it is your property unless your parents paid for it. Trust me I asked our schools police officer

[Sauron]

That said, I don't think the teacher would have gotten in trouble.

 

I don't know, parents don't usually take this kind of nonsense lightly and even if the headmaster agreed with the teacher, all he could do was calling the parents. If the voice had spread amongs the other parents they could be in a load of poop.

[MadManMarsBar]

So apparently, in my school a kid was made to give his phone to a teacher, the teacher then proceeded to go through his phone and copy all his stuff off of it. He did this because there was a fight and the teacher thought he'd have a recording of it or something, the teacher called the kids parents and told them he had been in 'gang related activities' (the kid's not in a gang and the teacher's already been warned about going round calling any group of kids a 'gang' before).

I'm angry that a teacher would do this anyways, but is it even legal?

Yes that is illegal in the UK 

 

its a breach of privacy , and above all a dick move to make

 

that being said he does have the power to take it away from him 

[Benji_w]

Yes that is illegal in the UK 

 

its a breach of privacy , and above all a dick move to make

 

that being said he does have the power to take it away from him 

 

10 Points to Gryffindor!!

[dizmo]

You cited a physical search in your original reply mate... give me a fucking break... I cited, what you cited, so in reality you're nullifying your own point... FYI a tutor is a teacher.

My section was about confiscated property. Once the phone was in the teachers posession, that's what takes over. Not the part before the search.

Regardless I've contacted the board of education and we'll see what they have to say on the matter. More out of curiosity and boredom than anything else.

 

In the US you need a warrant to search it as it is your property unless your parents paid for it. Trust me I asked our schools police officer

True, but this is the UK, not the US. Passwords are not protected in the UK either. Different laws.

 

I don't know, parents don't usually take this kind of nonsense lightly and even if the headmaster agreed with the teacher, all he could do was calling the parents. If the voice had spread amongs the other parents they could be in a load of poop.

Oh I agree, but most parents don't agree with every law. Especially in the UK.

From my understanding the school system there is extremely strict.

[babadoctor]

-snip-

For your information, you are definetally not allowed to use the multi quote feature like that. 

[dizmo]

For your information, you are definetally not allowed to use the multi quote feature like that. 

You mean the way it's supposed to be used?

Also, it's definitely. One L, no E.