Microsoft responds to Windows 10 privacy concerns

[Nowak]

I haven't seen the search bar! It's not there. No idea where it went, but i never saw it, and it's not there.

I do have W10 pro btw, maybe that doesn't have cortana? I don't know but it's not there at all. Never saw it before.

Hit Windows + S on the keyboard or type on the Start menu.

[Sharp_3yE]

I haven't seen the search bar! It's not there. No idea where it went, but i never saw it, and it's not there.

I do have W10 pro btw, maybe that doesn't have cortana? I don't know but it's not there at all. Never saw it before.

There is a loop tho, but that just searches with what you type, but that's it.

LOL can you post a picture of your desktop so we can understand what the heck is up with your PC? Also try what @Daring said. Hit WinKey+S or open the start menu and start typing.

 

*edit*

You can also turn on a search button or search bar by right clicking the taskbar, going to the cortana tab, then clicking "show Cortana icon" for a search button or "show search box" for a search bar. You probably have Cortana aka search set to hidden.

[samcool55]

LOL can you post a picture of your desktop so we can understand what the heck is up with your PC?

K, gimme a sec, it's on my laptop and that's in my bag 4 school, just give me a couple of minutes to get the pic.

 

@TheCMan there, my W10 search thingy.

[LAwLz]

His point was "they can't tell you why they are against it." So, my guess is they would be upset about the "privacy issues" yet couldn't even say "I would rather be left alone" or "I fear what others may do with my private information" but we would have to actually view the conversation though to understand what really happened and whether these few people @jaggysnake57 talked to actually have concerns or just have heard bad things and are repeating it and don't know why it could be bad.

 

You are right about privacy though.

You might be right, but since he said "they cant give a solid reason, probably because they dont have one" his post made it sound to me like he would not accept those as "solid reasons".

But I don't think they would even need to say "I would rather be left alone" since I don't think you need to justify having your rights left intact. It's the people who want to interfere who needs to justify themselves.

[jaggysnake57]

Maybe because the people you speak of are not against privacy?

 

I kinda get the impression any informed reasoned debate or discussion would go well above your head. So I suppose in that regard, might as well laugh about it eh.

Haha, calm down son I was just messin' with the guy.

 

Besides, it's the internet, lets all put our big boy pants on and accept being called names like "dumb" or "Dick hole".

 

i find it funny that you call me dumb and yet you couldnt grab the basic idea of what i was saying.....it was fairly obvious

 

@jaggysnake57 you're smart and that is an interesting observation you have with the few people you have talked to.

 

smarts a push , but from qusetions i have asked most people are for privacy and against companies and agencys breaching that privacy but when asked why, no one can give a real answer.

 

Privacy is a right. It is not something that needs to be justified in the same way you should not have to justify why all humans regardless of race, sexuality or other aspect should be worth the same. We don't have to justify why we have the right to live either. The latter example is extremely difficult to justify with just facts since in the end we just end up with "because I want to".

 

Even you have things you want to hide from someone. Everyone does. And because of that, it is not my duty to justify why I should be able to keep things private. It is the one who is trying to take my information who has to justify taking it.

So far, Microsoft is just taking things and not even telling us what info they are taking.

 

 

It's a very complex issue and there are a lot of different ways to tackle it. Some will argue about the potential legal aspects of it, such as people risk self-incriminate themselves, and some will argue about the potential personality changes (or changes in the development of personalities) a lack of privacy can result it.

 

Here is an extract from the article about the development of your own personality (since I doubt most people want to read the entire thing):

 

is a company or agency taking you data an actual breach of privacy?   to put it another way can your privacy be breached by someone who has no clue who you are other than a name and ip address or the like? at that point your just data not a person.

[Sharp_3yE]

 

K, gimme a sec, it's on my laptop and that's in my bag 4 school, just give me a couple of minutes to get the pic.

 

@TheCMan there, my W10 search thingy.

 

 

Cortana is turned off. That is just search.

 

You might be right, but since he said "they cant give a solid reason, probably because they dont have one" his post made it sound to me like he would not accept those as "solid reasons".

But I don't think they would even need to say "I would rather be left alone" since I don't think you need to justify having your rights left intact. It's the people who want to interfere who needs to justify themselves.

Yea true. But also, if they said "i have concerns with what happens with the data that is sent" and he asks why yet they can't come up with an answer then again, they don't know why or what is happening with the data so they can't come up with any reasons. In which case they should look up what is being sent, where, when, why, how and stuff before complaining I guess. Gotta know first. They can still have concerns though just not know why because they don't know what is going on.

 

Either way we would need to know what the conversation was to understand the situation and what was said and whether they know or don't know and if they actually have concerns. LOL

[samcool55]

Cortana is turned off. That is just search.

 

Good, it's "off" but why does it crash now and then? That's why i say it's not really off. Cortana is not there but it does crash. That's what i don't get about it...

If it's off, it shouldn't start, simple as that. And it does start, because it crashes sometimes.

[Sharp_3yE]

Good, it's "off" but why does it crash now and then? That's why i say it's not really off. Cortana is not there but it does crash. That's what i don't get about it...

If it's off, it shouldn't start, simple as that. And it does start, because it crashes sometimes.

Cortana may be just the term for "search" but the Cortana services are off. Start menu and search aka Cortana are two different apps.

[Misanthrope]

is a company or agency taking you data an actual breach of privacy?   to put it another way can your privacy be breached by someone who has no clue who you are other than a name and ip address or the like? at that point your just data not a person.

 

It is because of the simple fact that it was collected already. It's a security liability right off the bat the fact that they collected it. Second it implies a higher degree of trust that they won't be using it because they simply could. Third, since the first page I gave you an example of something we know for a fact already happened: Government agencies were allowed to look at data like this illegally yet ordered by a secret court without due process or even your knowledge at all. We already have a dangerous precedent to be so lax in saying "Here NSA, you don't need to actually do any espionage at all abroad or locally, you just gotta get a secret court order to compel Microsoft who already did all of the heavy lifting and has everything you want in a neat package"

[LAwLz]

is a company or agency taking you data an actual breach of privacy?   to put it another way can your privacy be breached by someone who has no clue who you are other than a name and ip address or the like? at that point your just data not a person.

Yes. Yes it is a breach of privacy. Even a simple thing like opening a letter intended for someone else is a breach of privacy so severe that you can be punished with up to 5 years in prison.

 

My name (which is unique by the way) along with my IP address and a mountain of data is not just "data and not a person". You would be surprised by how extremely accurate profiles someone can build of you with just a few simple tools like your browser's fingerprint and monitoring your browsing habits. That's what companies such as Google and Microsoft do. They build a profile about you. All the data in that profile might not be the physical being you are, but it will be who you are as a person.

Saying that it is just data is kind of like saying a photo of you is not you the person, it's just data that represents you.

 

 

 

Good, it's "off" but why does it crash now and then? That's why i say it's not really off. Cortana is not there but it does crash. That's what i don't get about it...

If it's off, it shouldn't start, simple as that. And it does start, because it crashes sometimes.

You can't turn it off. When you disable it you just disable some of the functionality, but some of it is still on. You can clearly see this if you start monitoring the traffic that leaves your computer. As soon as you start typing in the search field, it will make a connection and talk to the Bing's server, regardless of your settings.

[jaggysnake57]

It is because of the simple fact that it was collected already. It's a security liability right of the bat the fact that they collected it. Second it implies a higher degree of trust that they won't be using it because they simply could. Third, since the first page I gave you an example of something we know for a fact already happened: Government agencies were allowed to look at data like this illegally yet ordered by a secret court without due process or even your knowledge at all. We already have a dangerous precedent to be so lax in saying "Here NSA, you don't need to actually do any espionage at all abroad or locally, you just gotta get a secret court order to compel Microsoft who already did all of the heavy lifting and has everything you want in a neat package"

 

the security risk is about the best answer i have heard so far, but you already but your data at risk voluntarily when you enter your details anywhere not to mention until its leaked privacy hasnt been breached if you think like i do

[LAwLz]

the security risk is about the best answer i have heard so far, but you already but your data at risk voluntarily when you enter your details anywhere not to mention until its leaked privacy hasnt been breached if you think like i do

But the information has been leaked. It leaked the moment it left my computer.

[Misanthrope]

the security risk is about the best answer i have heard so far, but you already but your data at risk voluntarily when you enter your details anywhere not to mention until its leaked privacy hasnt been breached if you think like i do

 

Yes but this is my house door open analogy: No security system is impenetrable and all locks can be defeated, henceforth I am not gonna bother at all and will leave my front door wide open 24/7

[samcool55]

 

 

 

You can't turn it off. When you disable it you just disable some of the functionality, but some of it is still on. You can clearly see this if you start monitoring the traffic that leaves your computer. As soon as you start typing in the search field, it will make a connection and talk to the Bing's server, regardless of your settings.

Yes, stupid bing, god how did i forget about that? Anyway i think it's safe to say with that in mind that the voice command Cortana part can be turned off, but the search part of Cortana that sends your stuff to the bing servers can't be turned off. So the scary part is always on, so far you being in control as i said! Oh wel... 

[ThomasD]

Unlike some other platforms, no matter what privacy options you choose, neither Windows 10 nor any other Microsoft software scans the content of your email or other communications, or your files, in order to deliver targeted advertising to you.

That final comma is in a very curious place.

 

And, the subsequent clause substantially modifies the meaning of the prior - turning it into a legalese non-denial denial.

 

In plain English.

 

Microsoft does not deny they scan the contents of your email, other communications, or files.  They deny they do so in order to deliver targeted advertising.

 

Positively Clintonian.

[burnttoastnice]

This might not technically be a lie, but it is extremely dishonest and misleading. Microsoft has, among other things, a service called PhotoDNA. What it does is check the hash of images you for example upload to OneDrive or send in emails to see if they contain child pornography or other illegal files. Some will call this scanning and others won't.

 

Dropbox and most other cloud services all use hashing to find and identify files too - which is why I now use a SSH tunnel to access my 'cloud' SMB share remotely. Why would you be uploading child pornography or illegal files to these online services in the first place?

[r1Ns3]

You ARE in control. You have the options.

And what you are talking about is called telemetry data. Something that is embedded in Windows since XP days. It was NEVER a problem, never been a problem for all your devices as well, just now with Windows 10. Sorry, but I am not buying you are saying.

Exactly, if there was a loop hole in MS' T's and C's where they could abuse our personal data someone would have already been onto it and trust me, just because they send data to their servers doesn't mean anything until they can track what is being sent. It could be as simple as "has this computer recieved today's updates?" Then your computer replies "NO :(" Then their computer sends over a package that you can be prompted as to whether you wish to download or not.

[Bensemus]

Exactly, if there was a loop hole in MS' T's and C's where they could abuse our personal data someone would have already been onto it and trust me, just because they send data to their servers doesn't mean anything until they can track what is being sent. It could be as simple as "has this computer recieved today's updates?" Then your computer replies "NO :(" Then their computer sends over a package that you can be prompted as to whether you wish to download or not.

well the Canadian government has said they are looking into W10. It will be interesting if the public hears anything about that.

[Sharp_3yE]

Yes. Yes it is a breach of privacy. Even a simple thing like opening a letter intended for someone else is a breach of privacy so severe that you can be punished with up to 5 years in prison.

 

My name (which is unique by the way) along with my IP address and a mountain of data is not just "data and not a person". You would be surprised by how extremely accurate profiles someone can build of you with just a few simple tools like your browser's fingerprint and monitoring your browsing habits. That's what companies such as Google and Microsoft do. They build a profile about you. All the data in that profile might not be the physical being you are, but it will be who you are as a person.

Saying that it is just data is kind of like saying a photo of you is not you the person, it's just data that represents you.

 

 

 

You can't turn it off. When you disable it you just disable some of the functionality, but some of it is still on. You can clearly see this if you start monitoring the traffic that leaves your computer. As soon as you start typing in the search field, it will make a connection and talk to the Bing's server, regardless of your settings.

 

 

the security risk is about the best answer i have heard so far, but you already but your data at risk voluntarily when you enter your details anywhere not to mention until its leaked privacy hasnt been breached if you think like i do

Actually, no there isn't a breach of privacy. Why? Cuz there is a terms of service. You agree let Microsoft take the telemetry data and let Cortana use your account info, go into your emails and other things as well as having an advertising ID. No breach in privacy because there is an agreement to do this. Microsoft lets you turn it off though.

[LAwLz]

Microsoft lets you turn it off though.

No they don't.

[Sharp_3yE]

No they don't.

if you turn off Cortana she no longer gathers info about you. She stops reading emails and such.

Yes, I understand that your PC still communicates with MS servers after sone privacy settings are turned off but do you know what the data is being sent?

[LAwLz]

if you turn off Cortana she no longer gathers info about you. She stops reading emails and such.

Yes, I understand that your PC still communicates with MS servers after sone privacy settings are turned off but do you know what the data is being sent?

[Citation Needed] on Cortana not collecting information about be once turned off.

 

What data is being sent? Regardless of privacy settings (as in, even if you turn everything as off as you can) it will still:

1) Send data to ssw.live.com. Seems like it's telemetry data related to OneDrive, but the thing is that it will keep doing it even if you disable OneDrive. This happens even if you try and disable it through the group policies.

 

2) Every time you open up the start menu and type something, it will connect to bing, fetch and execute a bunch of JavaScripts. Don't know what they do.

 

3) Telemetry is incredibly hard to turn off. There is a setting for it in the Settings app but that won't let you turn it off completely.

 

4) When for example an app crashes it will collect data about it (which at the default setting actually includes a keylogger) and send it to Microsoft. I have only been able to find a way to reduce the amount of info it collects, but not turn it off completely and it doesn't seem like there is an option to not send it if a program crashes.

 

 

These things also bypass settings such as proxies and the host file. Oh and some of the things includes a unique ID that is tied to your machine. Microsoft will claim that it is anonymized, but the fact is that because of the unique ID a lot of things can be traced back to you.

 

 

If your claim that you can turn these things off is true then I would more than happily listen to you and follow your steps to turning it off. So far I have not found anything though.

[GoodBytes]

What data is being sent? Regardless of privacy settings (as in, even if you turn everything as off as you can) it will still:

1) Send data to ssw.live.com. Seems like it's telemetry data related to OneDrive, but the thing is that it will keep doing it even if you disable OneDrive. This happens even if you try and disable it through the group policies.

DO you have a Microsoft account or not?

2) Every time you open up the start menu and type something, it will connect to bing, fetch and execute a bunch of JavaScripts. Don't know what they do.

Web search.

 

3) Telemetry is incredibly hard to turn off. There is a setting for it in the Settings app but that won't let you turn it off completely.

Microsoft has been collecting telemetry data for many version of Windows.

 

4) When for example an app crashes it will collect data about it (which at the default setting actually includes a keylogger) and send it to Microsoft. I have only been able to find a way to reduce the amount of info it collects, but not turn it off completely and it doesn't seem like there is an option to not send it if a program crashes.

This is not new, and no personal information is there to identify you, as reiterated by Microsoft.

You can disable this. It was introduced since Windows XP.

 

These things also bypass settings such as proxies and the host file. Oh and some of the things includes a unique ID that is tied to your machine. Microsoft will claim that it is anonymized, but the fact is that because of the unique ID a lot of things can be traced back to you.

Security measures to prevent malware redirecting traffic data to their own servers, is a good thing.

[LAwLz]

DO you have a Microsoft account or not?

It does not matter. I have tried it with and without.

 

 

Web search.

I not only have web search disabled, I can't even turn it on because Microsoft has not enabled it in Sweden.

 

 

Microsoft has been collecting telemetry data for many version of Windows.

It has not been on by default before, and you have been able to turn it off. This is not the case anymore. Stop trying to compare an opt-in data collection against a permanently on one.

 

 

This is not new, and no personal information is there to identify you, as reiterated by Microsoft.

You can disable this. It was introduced since Windows XP.

Can you please tell me where I can disable it? And it doesn't really matter what they claim their purposes for collecting the info is. I don't want them to collect it because it could be used for other purposes.

 

 

Security measures to prevent malware redirecting traffic data to their own servers, is a good thing.

Yeah sure... Disregarding standards and give people a false sense of security by fooling them into believing they are in control is a good thing.

 

But let's assume that your argument is completely valid. Why would it matter if the traffic data was redirected to someone else's server if they claim that everything is anonymized and could not be used to track someone? If it was just meaningless data that couldn't be traced back to you then why does Microsoft go through such great lengths in order to make they protect their users' data from being looked at by other people?

[Sharp_3yE]

[Citation Needed] on Cortana not collecting information about be once turned off.

 

What data is being sent? Regardless of privacy settings (as in, even if you turn everything as off as you can) it will still:

1) Send data to ssw.live.com. Seems like it's telemetry data related to OneDrive, but the thing is that it will keep doing it even if you disable OneDrive. This happens even if you try and disable it through the group policies.

 

2) Every time you open up the start menu and type something, it will connect to bing, fetch and execute a bunch of JavaScripts. Don't know what they do.

 

3) Telemetry is incredibly hard to turn off. There is a setting for it in the Settings app but that won't let you turn it off completely.

 

4) When for example an app crashes it will collect data about it (which at the default setting actually includes a keylogger) and send it to Microsoft. I have only been able to find a way to reduce the amount of info it collects, but not turn it off completely and it doesn't seem like there is an option to not send it if a program crashes.

 

 

These things also bypass settings such as proxies and the host file. Oh and some of the things includes a unique ID that is tied to your machine. Microsoft will claim that it is anonymized, but the fact is that because of the unique ID a lot of things can be traced back to you.

 

 

If your claim that you can turn these things off is true then I would more than happily listen to you and follow your steps to turning it off. So far I have not found anything though.

So things like the advertising ID is off, and other stuff in the privacy settings are off then, correct? If correct, then you can turn things off.

We don't know what is up with the Onedrive thing. Would be nice to know to understand what is going on.

 

Does connecting to Bing's servers from the start menu really a problem though? We go to our web browser all the time, probably the #1 thing we do on a PC, and connect to search engine servers all the time. Now that your start menu does, is it a problem? It's not a privacy issue. The only problem is that you try to turn it off and it still connects to the servers.

I actually find it very useful. Instead of loading a browser first and clicking on the URL or search box and typing you just click the start button, type, and press enter.

 

"the fact is that because of the unique ID a lot of things can be traced back to you" Don't you mean your machine really? Also, because it's an anonymous ID it isn't tied to you (or I think your location). Is it possibly to figure it out? Maybe, but you can't say for sure because you haven't seen the data.

 

Even if the anonymous id can be tied to you, what information can be taken from that ID that would make you worried?