The new best price to performace sweet spot Amp/DAC

[Lockless]

I believe the non-Uber Schiit Stack is a great deal for what it is. I personally use an Uber Schiit Stack because I really want to use toslink out of personal preference and I'll be getting speakers soon.

[Packdemon]

Schiit stack > Schiit stack uber > O2+ODAC > Element

 

The one caveat is that the Modi has slightly fewer effective bits, which means that it might degrade audio quality IF software volume control is used under certain circumstances. Realistically, however, most people won't be able to hear a difference. Anyone who claims to hear a difference will probably be spending more money on their gear anyway.

 

This is also offset by the fact that the Uber schiit stack has more digital inputs, pre-amp out, and better specs overall. The one major advantage of the Element is the big volume knob. That's enough to make me buy one.

Wait why is the Schiit stack ahead of the the Schiit stack uber, isn't the uber an upgrade? And what's the reasoning for the element being on the bottom of the list, is its specs really that bad? I don't care about those extra inputs/outputs since I'm not planning to use them anyway, all I care about are the specs (even if the sonic difference created by those specs is near negligible).

[Lockless]

Wait why is the Schiit stack ahead of the the Schiit stack uber, isn't the uber an upgrade? And what's the reasoning for the element being on the bottom of the list, is its specs really that bad? I don't care about those extra inputs/outputs since I'm not planning to use them anyway, all I care about are the specs (even if the sonic difference created by those specs is near negligible).

Because for $100 less, you get something thats less powerful and less featured, BUT still a really good performer for the price.

[ShearMe]

Wait why is the Schiit stack ahead of the the Schiit stack uber, isn't the uber an upgrade? And what's the reasoning for the element being on the bottom of the list, is its specs really that bad? I don't care about those extra inputs/outputs since I'm not planning to use them anyway, all I care about are the specs (even if the sonic difference created by those specs is near negligible).

 

Specs mean nothing in the audio world. Only consistent measurements from a third party can be trusted.

[Packdemon]

So overall where do you rank the schiit stack, schiit stack uber, and the element rank in terms of performance (not price or features) greatest to least greatest? Specs for the element are here if you need a reference: https://www.jdslabs.com/products/151/the-element/

 

 

Because for $100 less, you get something thats less powerful and less featured, BUT still a really good performer for the price.

But, my original question was how he ranked them by performance. And, I specifically said not to factor the price or features.

[Packdemon]

By a negligable amount. Damping factor should be at least 8; no headphone has an impedance less than 16, let alone 4.

I just tested this to confirm this, but at 6x gain and full volume I can hear the noise floor from my O2 + ODAC being at 37.5% volume or higher when used on my 600 ohm beyerdynmic T1 and 600 ohm DT 770, and on my 2000 ohm Sennheiser HD 424 I'd hear the noise floor at about 75% volume or higher. I think that the "dampening factor of 8" rule of thumb is a great measure for the average person, but I have a little bit above the average hearing. That's why I personally am looking forward to the drop (if one ever occurs) on the Element.

[Lockless]

But, my original question was how he ranked them by performance. And, I specifically said not to factor the price or features.

Well, based on this post:

 

 

Specs mean nothing in the audio world. Only consistent measurements from a third party can be trusted.

[ShearMe]

I just tested this to confirm this, but at 6x gain and full volume I can hear a hiss from my O2 + ODAC being at 40% volume or higher when used on my 600 ohm beyerdynmic T1 and 600 ohm DT 770, the only headphones that I can't hear any hiss on no matter how high I turn up my volume are my 2000 ohm Sennheiser HD 424. I think that the "dampening factor of 8" rule of thumb is a great measure for the average person, but I have a little bit above the average hearing. That's why I personally am looking forward to the drop (if one ever occurs) on the Element.

The amount of gain is not the same as the amount of dampening, nor the output impedance.

There's no guarantee the element won't have a similar hiss at that output level.

[SSL]

I just tested this to confirm this, but at 6x gain and full volume I can hear a hiss from my O2 + ODAC being at 40% volume or higher when used on my 600 ohm beyerdynmic T1 and 600 ohm DT 770, the only headphones that I can't hear any hiss on no matter how high I turn up my volume are my 2000 ohm Sennheiser HD 424. I think that the "dampening factor of 8" rule of thumb is a great measure for the average person, but I have a little bit above the average hearing. That's why I personally am looking forward to the drop (if one ever occurs) on the Element.

 

What in fuck are you talking about? Noise floor has nothing to do with damping factor. Clearly you should not be using high gain if you can hear noise floor. Pretty much a no-brainer.

 

Wait why is the Schiit stack ahead of the the Schiit stack uber, isn't the uber an upgrade? And what's the reasoning for the element being on the bottom of the list, is its specs really that bad? I don't care about those extra inputs/outputs since I'm not planning to use them anyway, all I care about are the specs (even if the sonic difference created by those specs is near negligible).

 

Because it's a stupid question. They all sound basically the same, at which point the question is performance per dollar and features.

[Packdemon]

What in fuck are you talking about? Noise floor has nothing to do with damping factor. Clearly you should not be using high gain if you can hear noise floor. Pretty much a no-brainer.

Electrical impedance (in a way since the dampening factor is measured from electrical impedances it is in direct correlation with noise floor) has everything to do with noise floor. I was only using high gain to see where I'd hear the noise floor on both my 600 ohm and 2000 ohm headphones (as I couldn't hear the noise floor for the 2000 ohm headphones on low gain at all), it basically worked consistently as a benchmark.

 

Oh, and as a correction at noise floor volumes for my 600 ohm headphones and 2000 ohm headphone was 37.5% and 75% respectively. I'm probably never going to turn the volume up that high for my HD 424, but on low gain I still hear the noise floor on my 600 ohm headphones sometimes, so it'd be nice having the lower output impedance of the Schiit Magni (with ODAC) or the Element over my current O2 + ODAC.

[SSL]

Electrical impedance (in a way since the dampening factor is measured from electrical impedances it is in direct correlation with noise floor) has everything to do with noise floor.

 

No, it doesn't. Even if it did, the difference between 0.5 ohm and 0.1 ohm is inconsiquential.

 

SET OTL tube amps typically have an output impedance of 10 ohms or more, yet these are specifically recommended for high impedance headphones. And no, the noise floor on these units is not appreciably higher under real listening conditions.

[Packdemon]

No, it doesn't. Even if it did, the difference between 0.5 ohm and 0.1 ohm is inconsiquential.

 

SET OTL tube amps typically have an output impedance of 10 ohms or more, yet these are specifically recommended for high impedance headphones. And no, the noise floor on these units is not appreciably higher under real listening conditions.

Crap, I made a mistake. The hiss I was hearing was coming from both my cable and 1/4" adapter combined, not the noise floor. My bad man. I was basically had a 1/8" 4 pin (with mic) headphone aux cable plugged into a 1/8" 3 pin jack, that was what was creating most of the distortion. The noise is gone now that I I switched out my cable. 

[SSL]

Crap, I made a mistake. The hiss I was hearing was coming from both my cable and 1/4" adapter combined, not the noise floor. My bad man. I was basically had a 1/8" 4 pin (with mic) headphone aux cable plugged into a 1/8" 3 pin jack, that was what was creating most of the distortion.

 

Mistakes happen.

[Lockless]

I'm going off topic here, but would an ODAC (with RCA plugs) work with a Magni 2 Uber when mated via RCA? If yes, do I plug my headphones to the amp? Or the DAC? I just realized how much of a bulge the Stack is and I don't mind the sidegrade for the DAC. 

[Packdemon]

I'm going off topic here, but would an ODAC (with RCA plugs) work with a Magni 2 Uber when mated via RCA? If yes, do I plug my headphones to the amp? Or the DAC? I just realized how much of a bulge the Stack is and I don't mind the sidegrade for the DAC. 

Yes, the ODAC will work with the Magni 2 Uber. Is there any specific reason why you want to couple them through rca though? You could just connect the rca inputs on the Magni to the 3.5mm output on the ODAC.

[Lockless]

Yes, the ODAC will work with the Magni 2 Uber. Is there any specific reason why you want to couple them through rca though? You could just connect the rca inputs on the Magni to the 3.5mm output on the ODAC.

Well, it kinda reminds me of the days of cable clutter frustration when I used to own a DIY O2 with an ODAC. It looked like an eye-sore and living with it is... a bit of a headbanger.

Thats why I want the ODAC mated with the Magni 2 Uber via RCA.

[Packdemon]

Crap, I made a mistake. The hiss I was hearing was coming from both my cable and 1/4" adapter combined, not the noise floor. My bad man. I was basically had a 1/8" 4 pin (with mic) headphone aux cable plugged into a 1/8" 3 pin jack, that was what was creating most of the distortion. The noise is gone now that I I switched out my cable.

Mistakes happen.

I finally think that I figured out what the real problem was. It was a ground-loop, so I got a USB ground loop filter. There's this strange mark left on my face now, and it looks a lot like this. Let's see what my doctor has to say about it:

[SSL]

I finally figured out what the real problem was. It was a ground-loop, so I got a USB ground loop filter. There's this strange mark left on my face now, and it looks a lot like this. Let's see what my doctor has to say about it:

 

The doctor nods his head sadly.

[Packdemon]

The doctor nods his head sadly.

I was worried, so I asked him if I had a hemorrhage or a concussion, or something. He said I was fine though, and that I was just suffering from a minor case of stupidity

[Packdemon]

So I've been testing out my new usb ground loop isolator, and while it is making a slight difference, it's still not working as well as I'd hoped it would. The one I am currently using is: http://hifimediy.com/usb-isolator

 

Do you guys know of any other usb isolators that you have found to be more effective? Perhaps the audioquest jitterbug, or should I chain a few of them in a row and see what happens?

 

To be clear the sound that I am hearing through my amp plays only when my audio is playing. Whenever, I pause my audio (say youtube or something), then the sound will continue playing for 8 seconds until it stops. I think a ground loop is supposed to be a continuous sound no matter if audio is being played back, right?  I don't hear it as much at lower volume levels, It is particularly loud at 100% volume (duh, but still).This happens on all of my computers/amps/headphones. It's not an isolated (no pun intended) problem, so maybe what I am hearing the sound floor at this point? I really don't know at this point. What do you guys think?

[SSL]

So I've been testing out my new usb ground loop isolator, and while it is making a slight difference, it's still not working as well as I'd hoped it would. The one I am currently using is: http://hifimediy.com/usb-isolator

 

Do you guys know of any other usb isolators that you have found to be more effective? Perhaps the audioquest jitterbug, or should I chain a few of them in a row and see what happens?

 

To be clear the sound that I am hearing through my amp plays only when my audio is playing. Whenever, I pause my audio (say youtube or something), then the sound will continue playing for 8 seconds until it stops. I think a ground loop is supposed to be a continuous sound no matter if audio is being played back, right?  I don't hear it as much at lower volume levels, It is particularly loud at 100% volume (duh, but still).This happens on all of my computers/amps/headphones. It's not an isolated (no pun intended) problem, so maybe what I am hearing the sound floor at this point? I really don't know at this point. What do you guys think?

 

This doesn't sound like a ground loop. The fact that it isn't continuous and has a lag component to it suggests that it is occuring at a higher level in the system.

[Packdemon]

This doesn't sound like a ground loop. The fact that it isn't continuous and has a lag component to it suggests that it is occuring at a higher level in the system.

That was my thought exactly, but the confusing thing is that this is happening on all of my devices not just one. It's very difficult for my to isolate the issue like this. What's your setup sound like? Do you hear a sound after you pause a video and immediately raise the volume to max?

[SSL]

That was my thought exactly, but the confusing thing is that this is happening on all of my devices not just one. It's very difficult for my to isolate the issue like this. What's your setup sound like? Do you hear a sound after you pause a video and immediately raise the volume to max?

 

My audio setup is dead silent when nothing is playing. I use the WASAPI plugin in foobar to my Modi, which mutes all other system sounds.

 

To be clear, this is happening with onboard audio as well?

[Packdemon]

My audio setup is dead silent when nothing is playing. I use the WASAPI plugin in foobar to my Modi, which mutes all other system sounds.

 

To be clear, this is happening with onboard audio as well?

I heard it a little bit when plugged into my front audio, but I had to really listen for it when I was using my rear audio. Same thing when I am on low gain for my amp, I really have to listen for it then. But low gain isn't loud enough for my custom T1s.