Smoking Barrels - LTT's Unnofficial Gun Club!

[Drak3]

21 minutes ago, fpo said:

If there was (which I’m sure there is) a 9MM handgun with all the safeties in a 1911 but a high capacity magazine that doesn’t stick out the bottom of the gun, that would be a high quality defensive tool.

The closest you'd get is the STI 2011 or the Luger variants prior to the German military pattern P08.

[Drak3]

4 hours ago, kaiju_wars said:

lot of the hate seems to be from the Glock community

Of course, the vocal part of the Glock community regard it as being the perfect gun in every regard, even though there's a huge market dedicated to improving it and it'll never be good as anything other than a range toy or a base for modification due to the fact that the Glock is built from the ground up for that, whether the designers realize it or not.

[BeefyMeats]

Here comes a glock vs 1911 discussion again on a internet forum. Buckle up bois

 

 

 

[kaiju_wars]

8 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Of course, the vocal part of the Glock community regard it as being the perfect gun in every regard, even though there's a huge market dedicated to improving it and it'll never be good as anything other than a range toy or a base for modification due to the fact that the Glock is built from the ground up for that, whether the designers realize it or not.

Glocks aren’t bad guns.  I’ll give that they’re reliable, they’ll shoot every time.

I just wouldn’t own one.

I don’t care for the lack of safety.  

 

Inb4 someone goes, “it has the trigger safety!!”  That can’t really be considered a safety.

  My step-dad has one and unfortunately it’s one of the earlier models that might go off if dropped with a round in the chamber.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, kaiju_wars said:

Glocks aren’t bad guns.

I can't fully agree with that. They're not bad range guns.

 

2 minutes ago, kaiju_wars said:

Inb4 someone goes, “it has the trigger safety!!”  That can’t really be considered a safety.

I'd argue every gun that exclusively uses the trigger "safety" is inherently more dangerous for creating a false sense of security in a device that doesn't do anything to prevent mechanical failure and does a piss poor job of what it's supposed to do.

[RedAV8R]

23 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I can't fully agree with that. They're not bad range guns.

 

I'd argue every gun that exclusively uses the trigger "safety" is inherently more dangerous for creating a false sense of security in a device that doesn't do anything to prevent mechanical failure and does a piss poor job of what it's supposed to do.

I think the whole trigger safety is a gimmick as well. It's no more a safety than a trigger pull on a different gun, sure it's gotta be made in just the right spot, which IMO creates more of a hazard than safety. That said, if a pistol doesn't go off when dropped, and only when it's commanded (pulling the trigger) then I don't see much of a problem with a firearm without a safety. Every gun is loaded, and expect a round fired when the trigger is pulled. It's pretty simple.

8 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Of course, the vocal part of the Glock community regard it as being the perfect gun in every regard, even though there's a huge market dedicated to improving it and it'll never be good as anything other than a range toy or a base for modification due to the fact that the Glock is built from the ground up for that, whether the designers realize it or not.

And by that logic, the 1911 is....?? Seriously though, yes the Glock fanboyism is ridiculous too, but I won't cast any hate on the platform, it's a good performing pistol, suited for duty, carry, and range. Just because it doesn't have an external safety it's to be relegated to range use only?? You may not like them because you don't feel comfortable with the way they are designed, but that doesn't make them 'bad'.

 

What I love, is how I state that the 1911 is old, outdated and that there are better platforms, nowhere did I say 1911 are bad, shouldn't be carried, or anything of the like. If a 1911 suits your fancy, by all means carry it, train with it, be proficient with it. 

[Drak3]

9 minutes ago, RedAV8R said:

What I love, is how I state that the 1911 is old, outdated and that there are better platforms, nowhere did I say 1911 are bad,

Few things:

The Glock system, in its entirety, is as old, if not older than the system that the 1911. It's the equivalent of of the 7700K.

You said the 1911 was worse than some other, more modern platforms, which really is not true for conceal carry or military pattern pistols.

17 minutes ago, RedAV8R said:

it's a good performing pistol, suited for duty, carry, and range

It's not suited for any form of duty or carry. People might use it for that, but people do stupid things all the time.

 

46 minutes ago, RedAV8R said:

then I don't see much of a problem with a firearm without a safety. Every gun is loaded, and expect a round fired when the trigger is pulled. It's pretty simple.

Most of those safeties are not to protect one from their own stupid, they're countermeasures for mechanical failure.

[kaiju_wars]

Lmao, I wouldn’t call the 1911 outdated.  Anyone who says that is either practicing blatant fanboyism, doesn’t know what they’re talking about, or is just outright lying. 

Outdated implies it needs to be replaced, when it really doesn’t.  It’s more aged, yes, it’s still older, but it’s still better than many things on the market and will continue to be so.

 

the biggest complaint I’ve seen from most for the argument that the 1911 is outdated is that it’s singlestack.

Even then...

 

As stated in my original post, the only people I’ve noticed who tend to give a shit that I prefer the 1911 is people from the Glock community.  I also stated my main issue of the Glock is the lack of a real safety.  I don’t need a safety for me, it’s for other people. Also  Never once did I say I think they’re bad.  I love firing them, I just personally wouldn’t own one.

[knightslugger]

i don't see single-stack being an outdated thing, personally. it certainly slims the grip down considerably compared to a double-stack, which is a great for people with linus hands or need concealment.

 

I'm personally not a huge fan of active safeties on CC handguns. i like my CC firearms to be short, small, single-stack, and semi-cocked striker fired. My PF9 is a great example of a lightweight concealable 9mm that is every bit as safe as any glock, M&P, Sig, or SA. just about the only safeties i want in a handgun are drop-mitigation features, such as striker blocks.

 

If you really think about it, the auto-loading handgun really hasn't come very far from the days of the M1911.

[Drak3]

23 minutes ago, knightslugger said:

If you really think about it, the auto-loading handgun really hasn't come very far from the days of the M1911.

Handguns in general haven't really evolved much, we've just ditch some less successful but awesome systems. RIP toggle lock.

[Jito463]

1 hour ago, knightslugger said:

I'm personally not a huge fan of active safeties on CC handguns. i like my CC firearms to be short, small, single-stack, and semi-cocked striker fired. My PF9 is a great example of a lightweight concealable 9mm that is every bit as safe as any glock, M&P, Sig, or SA. just about the only safeties i want in a handgun are drop-mitigation features, such as striker blocks.

I concur wholeheartedly.  Both of my CC pistols have no safeties, save for the trigger safety on my LC9s Pro and the striker bar (block?) on my P2000 (and I believe on my LC9s, as well).  All those safeties are an impediment if your life is on the line.

[Drak3]

5 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

All those safeties are an impediment if your life is on the line.

Only when done wrong. YlThe safeties of the 1911, and every pistol adopting the safety lever implementation from the 1911, are easily actuated in the same motion of grabbing the gun, with minimal practice.

[knightslugger]

I don't even like trigger safeties.

 

Range/competetion gun... yeah... cuz RO needs teh feelz.

 

but me? Personally:

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, knightslugger said:

but me? Personally:

 

Remind me to never go to the range with you. Ever.

[RedAV8R]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Remind me to never go to the range with you. Ever.

From the sounds of it, only tactical condition carry butterscotch would ever be safe enough for you.

[Real_PhillBert]

Wow, this went sideways.

 

I'm far from a 1911 hater, I have an SR1911 which is a ton of fun. I EDC a Glock 19 and am far from a "Glock Perfection" fanboy; shit, I spent ~$1900 on my G19 after the purchase to improve it. 

 

I'm personally not a huge fan of the micro guns, as they give too much up in capacity and shootability. IMHO the G19 size is about right, along with the CZ P10C, Walther PPQ, HK VP9, M&P9 Compact 2.0, etc. which are all very close in size. 

 

That said, I prefer not to have external safeties on my carry guns, that's the reason I dont carry my XDm (other than the fact that its a 5.25" gun which makes concealment more challenging).

[RedAV8R]

Ugh, and mag safeties, whoever thought of that pile of poo aught to face a squad of their own.

[Real_PhillBert]

3 minutes ago, RedAV8R said:

Ugh, and mag safeties, whoever thought of that pile of poo aught to face a squad of their own.

Magazine disconnects piss me off as well. 

[Drak3]

18 minutes ago, RedAV8R said:

From the sounds of it, only tactical condition carry butterscotch would ever be safe enough for you.

Humans fuck up. It's in our nature. I guarantee that every single person in this thread has done things blatantpy unsafe that'd get someone killed off the range.

 

So I use weapons with redundancies, for what are the odds that two safeties fail spectacularly. Because I refuse to rely on the most failure prone safety mechanism in the world.

[kaiju_wars]

Mag safeties and mag disconnects are stupid.  But when done right, and the have (yes, the 1911 is a perfect example of this) safeties are okay.

a thumb safety that I can seamlessly disengage while drawing is the best thing imo.  

My uncle is giving me two Sccy pistols.  The CPX-1 and CPX-2.  I’ll probably end up using the CPX-1 more as it has a safety, and it’s a thumb safety.

[Guest]

all because someone asked "What should I get as a conceal carry"

[Drak3]

30 minutes ago, fpo said:

all because someone asked "What should I get as a conceal carry"

Do you expect different?!

[Jito463]

31 minutes ago, fpo said:

all because someone asked "What should I get as a conceal carry"

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was when someone who shall remain nameless (^*cough*@Real_PhillBert ^*cough*) posted a meme about 1911's. 

[Guest]

Just now, Jito463 said:

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was someone who shall remain nameless (^*cough*@Real_PhillBert ^*cough*) posted a meme about 1911's. 

No it goes like 4-6 pages back about someone saying they need a new pistol. 

[Real_PhillBert]

7 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was when someone who shall remain nameless (^*cough*@Real_PhillBert ^*cough*) posted a meme about 1911's. 

Sorry! I didnt realize y'all would take a meme personally. 

 

Everyone gets wound up over nothing. Let people like what they like.