Over 17% Windows 10 users: Steam hardware survey August:

[Dabombinable]

Are you that embarrassed of your D that it is the first thing that comes up your mind ?!

[Notional]

Is it though? These aren't gaming laptops -- they don't even have GPUs they're on Intel HD 4000. Seeing through this lens, the idea of Iris graphics being on every laptop sold regardless is actually quite exciting.

 

And for your second point, you are still assuming that 60-70% of the market will just be ignored. That's not sensible business practice. Your projection at its most optimistic will put it where Windows 7 is right now.

 

API exclusivity didn't help Vista, it just encouraged people to skip 10 and go straight to 11. I don't see how repeating that is going to have different results. Especially now that openGL, or its equivalent, is a much more attractive option than it ever has been in the past.

 

I'm pretty sure the Steam hardware survey counts all GPU's in your system, that are active. So most desktop computers would have both an Intel HD4000 and a dGPU in the survey. I disabled my iGPU, but if I hadn't like most people, it should show up along my R9 290 as well. Either way it doesn't change the fact that you can get gaming laptops that are close to the gaming performance of most desktops.

 

DX10 was never a big hit, because NVidia dropped the ball massively on it (sounds familiar?). Vista also had to try and get people away from XP; people who had forgotten how it was to change OS'. The biggest issue was drivers. Something MS learned a lot from, which is why upgrading to W10 is such a smooth experience for most people.

 

I'm not saying DX12 exclusive, but DX12 support. Most DX12 games will support DX11 after all. Johan Andersson, from EA wishes for DX12 exclusivity by holidays 2016, so more than a year from now. I think that is doable.

 

Win7 is the first OS with true SSD support.  However Sandforce-based SSDs do TRIM on their own and Samsung Magician can take care of it if you're using a Samsung SSD on Vista.  So it's pretty much a non-issue.

 

As for 5 generations, make that 3.   Win7 is essentially Vista SP3 and Win8.1 is essentially Win 8 SP1. 

 

Indeed. I guess it's no more of a problem than installing drivers/software that you can get from your SSD vendor.

 

Vista uses the, at the time, brand new Windows 6 Kernel. Every version of Windows has used an iteration of Kernel 6, so 7 was 6.1, 8 uses 6.2, 8.1 uses 6.3 (6+3 = Windows 9) and Windows 10 uses 6.4. So Microsoft are iterating Windows now for a more fluent upgrade path, which is why they are going all in on 10 being a perpetual upgrade path.

 

Yep, I'm using Corsairs utility to manage TRIM on the SSD.

@Notional

There is nothing actually wrong with Vista-it still receives updates even though Microsoft wants to end its support soon (which TBH changes nothing since its been a lot more stable for me than Windows 7) and Vista is more user friendly than Windows 7 and to some extent XP. Oh and it flogs the shit out of Windows 8 in being user friendly.

 

Vista was nice at the time, but it's 9 years old now. There is no benefit in running Vista to 7, 8.1 or 10. As stated, if you are concerned with MS looking at your dick picks, you can turn it off, and use a tool to get rid of it all.

 

In curiousness, how is Vista more user friendly? I found 7 to be more user friendly than Vista.

[othertomperson]

I'm pretty sure the Steam hardware survey counts all GPU's in your system, that are active. So most desktop computers would have both an Intel HD4000 and a dGPU in the survey. I disabled my iGPU, but if I hadn't like most people, it should show up along my R9 290 as well. Either way it doesn't change the fact that you can get gaming laptops that are close to the gaming performance of most desktops.

 

DX10 was never a big hit, because NVidia dropped the ball massively on it (sounds familiar?). Vista also had to try and get people away from XP; people who had forgotten how it was to change OS'. The biggest issue was drivers. Something MS learned a lot from, which is why upgrading to W10 is such a smooth experience for most people.

 

I'm not saying DX12 exclusive, but DX12 support. Most DX12 games will support DX11 after all. Johan Andersson, from EA wishes for DX12 exclusivity by holidays 2016, so more than a year from now. I think that is doable.

 

Even if that is a case, explain the common CPU clock speeds being in the 2GHz range and the popularity of 768p resolution. It is true that a 980m performs like a 970 but have you see the price of these laptops? I doubt the popularity of laptop hardware on the Steam sale is indicative of the majority of people spending thousands.

 

Johan Anderson can wish for a twenty foot solid gold Unicorn statue to literally crush Ubisoft for all it matters. Windows Exclusivity is a poor enough business move. Windows 10 exclusivity moreso, particularly if Vulkan is anything like as good as it is said to be.

 

If Vulkan is implemented sanely, Android could completely replace consoles very quickly.

[That Norwegian Guy]

Pretty sure most people participate. The odd one out should not skew the results as it is in percentages.

 

In what way is Win10 a downgrade? For me it's an upgrade in every way to 8.1 which in return was a large upgrade to 7.

 

Yeah who wants security updates. They suck

 

I'm not saying the number of people who don't do the survey are a majority, I'm saying that among people not doing survey out of the same spying concerns that they have about Windows 10 will all be on Win 8.1/ 7 still. Because it's the same principle. So of course less critically thinking people who do surveys will have a larger portion on Windows 10.

 

(Also you would be wrong, the hardware survey participation rate is like 20% of Steam's userbase)

 

As for updates: heard of cherry picking?

[Notional]

Even if that is a case, explain the common CPU clock speeds being in the 2GHz range and the popularity of 768p resolution. It is true that a 980m performs like a 970 but have you see the price of these laptops? I doubt the popularity of laptop hardware on the Steam sale is indicative of the majority of people spending thousands.

 

Johan Anderson can wish for a twenty foot solid gold Unicorn statue to literally crush Ubisoft for all it matters. Windows Exclusivity is a poor enough business move. Windows 10 exclusivity moreso, particularly if Vulkan is anything like as good as it is said to be.

 

If Vulkan is implemented sanely, Android could completely replace consoles very quickly.

 

Look at the language stats. Over 17% Russians. A lot of the steam computers are old. Low end old. But I agree a lot of them are laptops, but how is that a counter to what I stated? People buying cheap crappy laptops doesn't mean you can't get high end laptops. I have a cheap 2011 laptop I use for school, that counts in the steam survey too.

 

Johan Andersson is not just pushing the direction of the entire gaming industry, he is creating it. Remember this is the guy who co developed Mantle with AMD. With a 16+% adoption rate after just 5 weeks, seeing a much larger adoption rate in more than a year from now, where a lot of people with non DX12 cards might have gotten new GPU's, the entire market will look different. He might think it's wishful, but it's not impossible. After all the games they make are not going to run on crappy old laptops anyways.

 

Android apparel still needs to use hardware. Whether a console with GCN uses a proprietary Sony OS or android is irrelevant. It still needs the proper hardware. And again Windows 10 benefits Vulkan too due to WDDM 2.

 

I'm not saying the number of people who don't do the survey are a majority, I'm saying that among people not doing survey out of the same spying concerns that they have about Windows 10 will all be on Win 8.1/ 7 still. Because it's the same principle. So of course less critically thinking people who do surveys will have a larger portion on Windows 10.

 

(Also you would be wrong, the hardware survey participation rate is like 20% of Steam's userbase)

 

As for updates: heard of cherry picking?

 

20% is more than representative though, at about 2 million respondents.. I get the point in your rationale, but it's pure speculation. If people are that paranoid, they should not be using a pc to begin with. If they choose to, they should use safe Linux distro's and not Windows anyways. The whole security issue of Windows 10 has been blown way out of proportions, as you can disable most of it, and use a tool for the rest, which means Windows 10 is no more worse than Windows 7.

 

The entire point of Windows 10 is market homogeny, which is good for us gamers. If devs can focus on 1 OS with 2 API implementations (Dx12 and DX11.3), it will be much easier to make good PC games, with fewer bugs, better optimization and support. This is implementing the best parts of consoles into the PC platform and I see that as a very positive thing.

 

Sure, but what am I cherry picking? If you got other empirics, please share

[othertomperson]

Look at the language stats. Over 17% Russians. A lot of the steam computers are old. Low end old. But I agree a lot of them are laptops, but how is that a counter to what I stated? People buying cheap crappy laptops doesn't mean you can't get high end laptops. I have a cheap 2011 laptop I use for school, that counts in the steam survey too.

 

Johan Andersson is not just pushing the direction of the entire gaming industry, he is creating it. Remember this is the guy who co developed Mantle with AMD. With a 16+% adoption rate after just 5 weeks, seeing a much larger adoption rate in more than a year from now, where a lot of people with non DX12 cards might have gotten new GPU's, the entire market will look different. He might think it's wishful, but it's not impossible. After all the games they make are not going to run on crappy old laptops anyways.

 

Android apparel still needs to use hardware. Whether a console with GCN uses a proprietary Sony OS or android is irrelevant. It still needs the proper hardware. And again Windows 10 benefits Vulkan too due to WDDM 2.

 

It's a counter because your statement assumes that most of these laptops are high end £1000 - £3000 laptops which are comparable to decent desktops. That's a ridiculous assumption to make. I'm not saying you can't buy them, I'm saying they are not the cause for the Steam survey demonstrating a very high percentage of laptop use.

 

Your next paragraph assumes that every PC running Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, any Linux distro and Mac OSX are all "crappy old laptops". He could be Father fucking Christmas for all it matters. If EA have any business sense they will not cater exclusively for 16% of the market.

 

I'm sure you think it is quite a profound thing to point out that an OS doesn't exist in the ether and needs a system on which to run, but sadly you are the only one who doesn't feel this is beyond obvious. I'm not thinking about x86 based AMD APUs. I'm thinking of the Nvidia Tegra, I'm thinking of Apple A6. I'm thinking of Snapdragon based "consoles". There is absolutely no reason to assume that Sony or Microsoft will remain the face of console gaming once everyone has a console-grade gaming machine in their pockets and a means of connecting to their TV. Whether it is actually a phone, or merely phone-like hardware in a standalone case (such as the Nvidia Shield) it doesn't matter.

 

You keep saying that Windows 10 benefits Vulkan even though I've made it extremely clear that I don't give a shit. I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about opening up the gaming market to systems other than Windows 10, other than Windows, other than x86.

[Zah]

Look at the language stats. Over 17% Russians.

AND ALL OF THEM IN MY DOTA 2 GAMES.

[Notional]

It's a counter because your statement assumes that most of these laptops are high end £1000 - £3000 laptops which are comparable to decent desktops. That's a ridiculous assumption to make. I'm not saying you can't buy them, I'm saying they are not the cause for the Steam survey demonstrating a very high percentage of laptop use.

 

Your next paragraph assumes that every PC running Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows 8.1, any Linux distro and Mac OSX are all "crappy old laptops". He could be Father fucking Christmas for all it matters. If EA have any business sense they will not cater exclusively for 16% of the market.

 

I'm sure you think it is quite a profound thing to point out that an OS doesn't exist in the ether and needs a system on which to run, but sadly you are the only one who doesn't feel this is beyond obvious. I'm not thinking about x86 based AMD APUs. I'm thinking of the Nvidia Tegra, I'm thinking of Apple A6. I'm thinking of Snapdragon based "consoles". There is absolutely no reason to assume that Sony or Microsoft will remain the face of console gaming once everyone has a console-grade gaming machine in their pockets and a means of connecting to their TV. Whether it is actually a phone, or merely phone-like hardware in a standalone case (such as the Nvidia Shield) it doesn't matter.

 

You keep saying that Windows 10 benefits Vulkan even though I've made it extremely clear that I don't give a shit. I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about opening up the gaming market to systems other than Windows 10, other than Windows, other than x86.

 

I have made no such assumption. What are you talking about? All I said is that we are moving towards more laptops as they are closing the performance gap to desktops. That's it. Everything else is something you made up. Just look at the NVidia 990m (as it was called in the news thread here), which is basically a full desktop 980 in a laptop.

 

Where am I assuming that? I even said my old crappy 2011 laptop is running Windows 10 now. Windows 10 had less than 4% market share last month. It's now over 16%. Do you honestly think it will not change in more than a full year? We are talking a 400%+ market share increase in 1 month. Sure that expansion will not continue at the same rate, but surely the market share will grow.

My speculation is that most people who has the hardware to run the next Mass Effect game, would also use Windows 10 by then. I don't see it as unrealistic for EA to have DX12 as a minimum spec in more than a year from now. Should be doable with W10/DX12 market share by then.

 

You think those consoles are going to take over market share from PC's and current gen consoles? I seriously doubt that. It's not impossible but highly unlikely. Vulkan or not you still have to program for the architecture, and I doubt devs with proper games are going to bother with that hardware. We will mostly see apple-esque mobile games there. Maybe some indie games here and there. What you are talking about sounds like a different market demographic all together.

 

Oh sure, Vulkan is a great idea. I hope the implementation is just as great. I have no problems with AAA games going on the Linux platform, as long as it doesn't come at a performance cost on my Windows PC. As for the non x86 consoles, we will have to see. I just don't see it replace PC or XBOX/PS market share. It's more another market demographic, which is nice enough, but might not be relevant to the x86 based gaming market.

[VulsaviiK]

16.39% of Steam users use Windows 10. Which means if a game released that relied on Directx 12 less than a fifth of PC gamers would be able to play it.

 

Vulkan ftw.

 

The most interesting thing about the Steam Hardware Survey is the sheer number of PC gamers playing on laptops.

 

Most common CPU speeds between 2.3 and 2.69 GHz -- laptop CPUs

Most common GPU -- Intel HD 4000

VRAM -- 1GB (22% have 2GB, only 2% have 3GB and only 7% have 4GB)

Resolution -- 27% on 1366x768, 34% on 1920x1080, 1% on 1440p and 0.07% on 4K

 

Do they even make standalone 768p monitors? I've only ever encountered them in laptops.

 

Thing to remember dude, our hobby makes up something like 2.5 percent of the total PC database worldwide

 

Most students for example, probably don't have the cash for a desktop at home and also a laptop for university/college, so, they'd be playing from a laptop, and not a very good one at that

 

 

Windows 7 and 8/.1 has this too now. But I linked a video that tells you how to get rid of all of it in Windows 10. If that is good enough for Tek Syndicate, it should be more than enough for everyone else really. Oh I assume you don't use any Google services right?

 

Even if I wanted to use another email provider, we use Gmail at uni, but eh, fuck it, Gmail's great, and it means I can sync stuff with my phone which is cool

[Notional]

Even if I wanted to use another email provider, we use Gmail at uni, but eh, fuck it, Gmail's great, and it means I can sync stuff with my phone which is cool

 

Personally I don't mind Google services. I have an android phone and use google search and youtube. The point is that those services datamines as much or more than W10 at its worst setting. That's why I think it's being blown out of proportions.

[Nowak]

Vista uses the, at the time, brand new Windows 6 Kernel. Every version of Windows has used an iteration of Kernel 6, so 7 was 6.1, 8 uses 6.2, 8.1 uses 6.3 (6+3 = Windows 9) and Windows 10 uses 6.4. So Microsoft are iterating Windows now for a more fluent upgrade path, which is why they are going all in on 10 being a perpetual upgrade path.

Windows 10 is actually based on NT 10.

 

In curiousness, how is Vista more user friendly? I found 7 to be more user friendly than Vista.

I have to agree, I always struggled to find even basic things like personalization options in Vista, while in 7 and above they made it easy to find things.

[othertomperson]

Thing to remember dude, our hobby makes up something like 2.5 percent of the total PC database worldwide

 

Most students for example, probably don't have the cash for a desktop at home and also a laptop for university/college, so, they'd be playing from a laptop, and not a very good one at that

 

I know, I was playing on a GT 130M when I was a student.

 

 

I have made no such assumption. What are you talking about? All I said is that we are moving towards more laptops as they are closing the performance gap to desktops. That's it. Everything else is something you made up. Just look at the NVidia 990m (as it was called in the news thread here), which is basically a full desktop 980 in a laptop.

 

Where am I assuming that? I even said my old crappy 2011 laptop is running Windows 10 now. Windows 10 had less than 4% market share last month. It's now over 16%. Do you honestly think it will not change in more than a full year? We are talking a 400%+ market share increase in 1 month. Sure that expansion will not continue at the same rate, but surely the market share will grow.

My speculation is that most people who has the hardware to run the next Mass Effect game, would also use Windows 10 by then. I don't see it as unrealistic for EA to have DX12 as a minimum spec in more than a year from now. Should be doable with W10/DX12 market share by then.

 

You think those consoles are going to take over market share from PC's and current gen consoles? I seriously doubt that. It's not impossible but highly unlikely. Vulkan or not you still have to program for the architecture, and I doubt devs with proper games are going to bother with that hardware. We will mostly see apple-esque mobile games there. Maybe some indie games here and there. What you are talking about sounds like a different market demographic all together.

 

Oh sure, Vulkan is a great idea. I hope the implementation is just as great. I have no problems with AAA games going on the Linux platform, as long as it doesn't come at a performance cost on my Windows PC. As for the non x86 consoles, we will have to see. I just don't see it replace PC or XBOX/PS market share. It's more another market demographic, which is nice enough, but might not be relevant to the x86 based gaming market.

 

And every laptop I pointed to in the Steam survey is using a 990M, is it? I said it was interesting how many shite laptops are in the Steam Survey and you go off on one about how £3000 laptops can rival a decent desktop. If that isn't the point you are making then please tell me how anything you have been rambling on about has been remotely relevant.

 

Yes I honestly think that Windows 10 will not become a ubiquitous OS (or even majority) in any length of time, let alone 1 year. You are deluded if you think otherwise.

 

New phones and tablets are released year on year. Consoles, about two a decade at this rate -- and the current gen consoles were woefully inadequate when they were released in 2013. Android consoles already exist. Crysis 3 is already coming to Nvidia Shield. I think you are wrong to dismiss the potential Android has as a mainstream gaming platform. What would also be interesting is if Apple decide to jump on this. A successor to Apple TV with controller support and ability to play games available on the App Store would certainly get attention.

 

I also think you are very very wrong to dismiss the Nvidia Shield and similar hypothetical devices as being only for conventional mobile games. Those kinds of games suit the touch screen interface and the idea of dropping into games when you have a couple of minutes free, but that's not all and Android (or even iOS) based console need be.

 

I'm just thinking from the perspective of a developer. I have one API that, let's use your ambitious projection, 40% of gamers running one OS. Or I have another API that not only hits close to 100% (system specs not withstanding, there are no artificial barriers preventing them from accessing the game) but then it also makes porting the game to a wide variety of consoles much more simple.

 

I think that the pure dreadfulness of this generation's consoles, coupled with the ubiquity of Android/iOS and not to mention the sheer over engineering that goes into the specs of smartphones has left the console door wide open to companies like Nvidia and Razer and HTC to compete with them. Or do you think it's a coincidence that HTC and Samsung are ploughing on with VR?

[Murdoch]

Exactly, I agree.

 

Just as an example, some torrent sites have banned Windows 10 users due to "privacy concerns" except Microsoft has no reason to really care about policing piracy, there is no money to be made by them doing that, just like Google doesn't want to be the internet police either. In fact, it only costs them money to engage in doing that (both Microsoft and Google).

 

Most pirates should be more worried about a company like Mark Monitor. They directly work for IP rights holders and here's some of Mark Monitor's own statements on their Anti-Piracy efforts,

 

"Efficiently detects piracy across the Internet by simultaneously monitoring millions of P2P users across all major networks, live and video streaming sites, auction sites, blogs, exchanges, websites and online forums" "Capture extensive evidence on infringers for potential future use in legal cases." "Send automated DMCA takedown notices to ISPs hosting infringing sites." "Deliver comprehensive online and real-time reports detailing ongoing piracy activity and results of enforcement efforts." https://www.markmonitor.com/services/antipiracy.php

 

And no amount of FOSS or "uninstalling" or tweaks to your OS can stop Mark Monitor.

 

This post makes me chuckle.

 

You say there is no money to be made in "policing piracy". Yet you cite the endeavours of a company that's sole purpose is to monitor piracy, there's practically a whole industry surrounding the monitoring and policing of copyright infringement. The data Microsoft can pick up, is also way more valuable because it's from source, and can't be obscured by proxies and VPNs. I suspect many 3rd parties would be willing to pay a premium for that data.

 

The only thing stopping Microsoft from selling this sort of data is the potential public backlash and exodus from Windows. I don't understand the "everybody has my data anyways argument", they really don't, and Microsoft has a far better platform to take it than most.

[Delicieuxz]

Those spying features are on 7 and 8.1 now.

What if a person removes those updates?

[Notional]

Windows 10 is actually based on NT 10.

 

I have to agree, I always struggled to find even basic things like personalization options in Vista, while in 7 and above they made it easy to find things.

 

You are quite right, Windows 10 went from 6.4 to 10 in the preview version. It still started as 6.4 which I believe explains the 10 moniker.

[Icecube26]

Them 17% so smart that they jumped to Win10 for all those glorious DX12 games, impeccable drivers and spying.

 

Oh wait...

 Microsoft already ported all the spying features on Win7 and 8.1 aswell .... 

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

 Microsoft already ported all the spying features on Win7 and 8.1 aswell .... 

Yeah, but at least there you can block the updates, with Win10 all that filth is part of the OS already when you install it.

[Icecube26]

Yeah, but at least there you can block the updates, with Win10 all that filth is part of the OS already when you install blo

as long as youre conected to the internet... microsoft can install updates ...and you dont have to notice it...... in the end its a microsoft OS... they know to do it...

[sof006]

Guy seriously, still with all these spying crap?

 

Get over it, its the world of the 21st century where people spy on each other 24/7. No avoiding it whether you use a computer or not. Just be happy you have more FPS and can still use it to do whatever you feel like. If people are so inclined then move back to your old OS, nothing is stopping you.

[That Norwegian Guy]

Sure, but what am I cherry picking? If you got other empirics, please share

 

No, I meant cherry picking windows updates rather than have it automatically downloading and installing anything it wants to. In reference to the 7/8.1 update to sneak in telemetry-like afunctionality.

[Notional]

No, I meant cherry picking windows updates rather than have it automatically downloading and installing anything it wants to. In reference to the 7/8.1 update to sneak in telemetry-like afunctionality.

 

Ah I misunderstood. Yeah that makes sense. But that probably requires more works than just disabling all the crap in Windows 10 to begin with.

[Doobeedoo]

Nice. Also I'm sure many wait a bit longer for upgrade so W10 gets polished more.

[Dabombinable]

Windows 10 is actually based on NT 10.

 

I have to agree, I always struggled to find even basic things like personalization options in Vista, while in 7 and above they made it easy to find things.

Making things easy to find and being able to do things easily are totally separate.

[Nowak]

Making things easy to find and being able to do things easily are totally separate.

I know, but I found all sorts of admittedly pretty nit-picky usability issues with Vista that I was pretty glad to switch to 7. Then again, I was younger and more noobish back then.

[Dabombinable]

I know, but I found all sorts of admittedly pretty nit-picky usability issues with Vista that I was pretty glad to switch to 7. Then again, I was younger and more noobish back then.

I'll use a SS to put things into perspective, the only upfront difference between Vista and 7 is GUI changes (apart from Vista being more security orientated after XP being riddled with holes), with programs like Paint and Calculator getting revamped, and the quick launch and task bars getting combined. This is Vista with the taskbar extended:

If Vista came after 7, it would be the best parts of XP and Windows 7 (excluding aero snap).