Chris Roberts speaks out about the time it's taking for Star Citizen to release

[Agent181]

That's the kind of extortion argument I expect from a publisher except substitute pre-orders for crowd funding.

And no just because things on the other end of the spectrum are bad doesn't means we should settle for DIY solutions constantly.

With this much money they could have easily started a publishing company for like 5 or 6 smaller games and really impulse pc gaming instead of one big, expensive promise.

Ok I get that it shouldn't be done but at this point it's the only way the game is going to get done...

The entire game is so complex that it can be separated into many games but instead they choose to put it all into one and a lot of publishers would choose to make it into more games and gain a lot more money to take

[patrickjp93]

Unless you are like me and will want to walk up to a wall with a 4k VR design and still not see a single pixel.

Honestly, I don't get why people are mad at SC for setting their standard in advance of what current hardware is capable of driving. Making a texture at 1080p or at 4k probably doesn't make an enormous difference (sure there will be some) in the time it takes to make it, so why not make it 4k and give the option.

Alot of people were mad at Bethesda for not including high resolution textures with skyrim and people are mass installing 4k texture packs, yet when a company does supply the 4k textures now you are saying they shouldn't?

The difference is huge in memory usage for no real gain. If you can still see a pixel, the tile was done incorrectly.

 

People were irrational to get mad at Bethesda for that. Now, Bethesda could have done more in the same texture sizes. I won't deny that, but providing 4K resolutions is actually quite stupid when you can get the same effect with less memory and fewer computational resources.

[patrickjp93]

I don't know what texture specifically you are talking about , but generally it's not pointless.

 

This 4k texture could be at wall of a hangar which dimensions 10x10 meters so if you would come closer - even this 4k texture would be too little for 1080p.

No it wouldn't. If you used it correctly there would be no seams, no blotchiness, no nothing that could tell you it was a lower resolution texture.

[patrickjp93]

They don't want a publisher to get involved. they want full control over the game. that is why they did crowd funding. they could of easily got a publisher but then they lose control over the rights to the game.

 

 

 

 

you don't see the full texture when in a game. sometimes you may see a 1/4 or less of it and it may be blown up. a texture is NEVER displayed 1:1 on the screen hence why textures should be bigger than the resolution.

There are plenty of counterexamples for that, Elder Scrolls Oblivion being a good one where the tiling was done too obviously in some cases of mountains and trees. If done right, you get the same effect as a higher-resolution texture for less memory and fewer cycles taken out of the GPU. Now you can do more.

[Derangel]

I think I made my point abundantly clear: I think relying on such a time consuming, large budget game entirely with crowd funding it's abusive and morally reprehensible in my opinion: normal people and fans shouldn't have to fund big games since it will lead to a lot less interesting games being made and a lot less games made overall, hurting the industry instead of helping it along.

 

I don't think that is a big issue. The issue with Star Citizen is all the bullshit pre-order content and DLC shit you can buy for a game right now that won't be finished for probably another couple years, at least.

[Trik'Stari]

they chose to pay, when they had it planned to start merging all the modules together in late 2016. no one forced people to pay. people should vote with their wallets.

 

also the money has to come from somewhere. you cant make a game like this for free, and within a year or two.

 

I also think when devs can make what they want, they will make more interesting games. not the other way around.

 

just some info:

 

GTA 5 had a 260 million USD budget

1000 people worked on it

7-8 year dev time.

 

star citizen is at 85 million  (as far as I know)

3-4 years in dev so far (as far as I know)

I would add "you can't make a game like this when you have a publisher screaming at you to get it out in less than a year " to that list.

 

People want this game, let them pay for it, if you don't want to, fine. But at least we know that if/when it comes out it will be better made than anything else that comes out that year.

[ADM-Ntek]

i have this far dumped 380$ into star citizen but half of that went int merch really nice polo shirts. but i don't regret a thing because i know they will make it right. i don't mind that it will tka long. hell even if the PU implodes the main story will be about 60 hours of story (20 hours per episode) they have already recorded 5-6 hours of dialog just for the first of 3 episodes.

[Kurosaki Isshin]

I've given SC $0.00.

 

I can wait

[Equlix]

If it's not done in another 2 years then I might be a little upset but as of right now imo the game is progressing well.

[Sparviero]

For me I am happy with the studio taking time. I take issue with their actions being hemmed and hawed by community trolls. Ex: the need for FPS "alpha" to be so darned perfect. Just give us something to play with and ignore the trolls.

[Bean86]

I put nearly 1k towards the cause over time. 2, 3, 5 years I don't care. I like the modules approach which let's me already enjoy it somewhat.

And those suggesting it should have been split into several games miss the point of what CR had envisioned from the beginning.

[NinjaTitan]

The next Duke Nukem Forever

 

No, thats Half Life 3. 

 

Star Citizen has been in the oven for what, 2.5 years now? Thats very in line with the projected average of 3 years for AAA releases. Star Citizen is not some hack DayZ clone. Its a proper, expansive game with a lot going on. MMOs like TOR have taken longer. 

 

Quality takes time. SC will take as long as it needs, even if it approaches 4-5 years. If people want quick turnaround, go to Steam Greenlight/Early Access and approve of and buy mediocre trash, the rest of us will wait for quality. 

[Commander Llama]

Crowdfunding. No matter how many times you explain it's a no guarantees donation, people will always see it as an investment and will expend and even demand something in return, in a timely matter.

 

This is why crowdfunding should be a last resort and for smaller, reasonably sized projects, not massive budget behemoths like Star Citizen that of course can take a good 5 to 10 years to develop.

 

It can be for both. It should be for everything! But you're absolutely right about people's mindset.

 

The thing about crowdfunding is it's new, it's exciting, it's a wonderful thing to behold. I mean fuck, aside from little indie ops we would never ever have seen a game like Pillars of Eternity again. Yet gamers pooled their funds, and now it exists! Amazing!

 

Add onto that space games had generally disappeared too, despite now-reasonably-wealthy gamers in their 20s-50s having hella fond memories of them. Star Citizen also hit the crowdfunding scene with an incredible PR punch. So Star Citizen itself was also new, exciting, and a wonderful thing to behold. Put both together, and you have the perfect recipe for unrealistic expectations. Excitement can't last forever in everyone. Shit, it can't even last one year most of the time. I was hyped as fuck for SC, but I just had to walk away from constantly following development, because I recognized it was unsustainable.

 

So on the one hand yes, you're right. I think crowdfunding at this point is ideal for small to medium sized projects that can get minted in the 6-24 month timeframe. Star Citizen is obviously going to take a good deal longer than that. But everyone also needs to form a proper mindset. Time will tell. Be patient, all.

 

And yes, crowdfunding is not a guarantee of product. It's a donation with possible perks. It's effectively like buying penny stocks in start-up companies. You've got no guarantee of anything. When you click the fund buttons, you need to realize this, you need to properly scrutinize beforehand, and then you need to be patient on top of being excited.

 

I don't think this should exclude larger projects though. Hell, I wish they would crowdfund NASA projects so we could go to space more often, lol. 

[Albatross]

I'm not worried but if they can't release the game they envisioned they released a super polished Arena Commander + Star Marine.

[Toddwjp]

Most large scale games are in development for at least 5 years, I don't know why anyone expects SC to be any different

[Albatross]

Most large scale games are in development for at least 5 years, I don't know why anyone expects SC to be any different

 

Why? Well from what I see it as...it is because they directly gave money to the game so it makes them think it will magically appear 100% finished without any bugs a year or two later. I guess they think that involvement they and their money have on the game means faster development. Maybe the true answers are on the RSI forums.

[Derangel]

Most large scale games are in development for at least 5 years, I don't know why anyone expects SC to be any different

 

The vast majority of people on the internet have no clue how games are developed. To them it might as well be magic. They expect games to release the same day they're announced in a perfect state. Though that lack of knowledge is why companies try not to announce games several years before release and wait until it's at most a year or two out (unless their name happens to be Square Enix).

[That Norwegian Guy]

LOL Derek Smart???? The world's biggest asshat in games development, making Phil Fish out to be a saint?
 

Who on earth would cite Derek fucking Smart as a source for anything, jesus backflipping christ. That guy has himself provided 4 spectacular miscarried games with his next-to-zero business and game development skill.

[Toddwjp]

The vast majority of people on the internet have no clue how games are developed. To them it might as well be magic. They expect games to release the same day they're announced in a perfect state. Though that lack of knowledge is why companies try not to announce games several years before release and wait until it's at most a year or two out (unless their name happens to be Square Enix).

 

example of a square enix press release

 

"we are happy to announce we may begin development of nier in 2020"

[dyent10]

they dont have to finish it. they already have your money.

[Humbug]

Some people are too cynical. Don't be so quick to assume that everybody is a scam artist.

 

And some people have too little faith, too little patience, too little understanding. I remember loads of people dismissing the black mesa mod saying that it's too much work for a small mod team to remake HL1 and that it will never happen etc. I kept faith in them, it took years but they got the job done. And their doubters have gone quiet.

 

I don't see any signs that Star Citizen is going to collapse. That doesn't mean it will be the perfect game or that everybody will love it. That's impossible in an artform. But I am confident that they will release it and have it fully functioning. They show progress, they have professionals, and are well funded and motivated.

 

You just don't build something like that and ship it in 2-3 years, nobody can. I remember one of their coders explaining in an interview that adding more staff or programmers does not help beyond a certain point. Because the workload cannot be divided beyond a certain point.

 

they dont have to finish it. they already have your money.

Speak for yourself. There are millions of people (like me) who have not bought it yet because we don't want to be alpha testers.

But we will buy it when squadron 42 is released. There is a lot more money to be made by releasing a product.

 

The fact that they are already making money doesn't mean that there isn't a lot more to be made by releasing the game.

[NAP51DMustang]

I think I made my point abundantly clear: I think relying on such a time consuming, large budget game entirely with crowd funding it's abusive and morally reprehensible in my opinion: normal people and fans shouldn't have to fund big games since it will lead to a lot less interesting games being made and a lot less games made overall, hurting the industry instead of helping it along.

wow the number of logical fallacies in this post are astounding. how is crowd funding a AAA style game morally reprehensible? no what I would call morally reprehensible in the crowdfunding realm are things people taking the funding for their project and then giving it to an activist group to avoid the taxes they didn't realize they would have to pay. and if SC is morally reprehensible is the (original) Pebble a morally reprehensible product? should they have not first made the product and then just sold them in stores?

 

and wtf? how does crowdfunding a big game like SC lead to less games being made? what non-logic are you trying to throw around as logic? by that logic ALL AAA titles result in less games being made....

[Humbug]

Personally I have not pledged any money to Star Citizen. Because I have no interest or time to play alpha module releases when there are plenty of other finished games out there.

 

However I follow them and am very interested in their work and will certainly buy the game at full price when squadron 42 is released. Even though I wasn't a part of it I cannot deny the reality that this project would never have gone anywhere without crowdfunding... It was allowed to happen due to crowdfunding and i'm thankful for that.

[Itereus]

I'm honestly skeptical about how the quality of the game will turn out. From what I can tell, it seems like it will end up with too many ideas, but not enough focus on them all.

 

That said, I truly hope that the game will turn out great. If it turns out (objectively) bad, it will end up with a shit-storm on the Internet between rational people, and die-hard fans. Which in the long term will only end up hurting us all.

 

That said, people will be disappointed no matter if it's better than a cat riding a dinosaur eating bacon.

[Misanthrope]

wow the number of logical fallacies in this post are astounding. how is crowd funding a AAA style game morally reprehensible? no what I would call morally reprehensible in the crowdfunding realm are things people taking the funding for their project and then giving it to an activist group to avoid the taxes they didn't realize they would have to pay. and if SC is morally reprehensible is the (original) Pebble a morally reprehensible product? should they have not first made the product and then just sold them in stores?

 

and wtf? how does crowdfunding a big game like SC lead to less games being made? what non-logic are you trying to throw around as logic? by that logic ALL AAA titles result in less games being made....

 

Crowd funding is asking money with no guarantees. All other funding options require you to be accountable for your project, but in crowd funding you don't even have to deliver a functional product if you don't want to and there's no legal recourse for backers. That's highly abusive and anticonsumer and in fact could end up being illegal precisely because it bypasses so many consumer laws and protections is not even funny.

 

Crowd funding something as a good will, good intentioned effort for a small project that is otherwise impossible is fine but still pushing it. Doing it to finance a massive game however means you don't need to finish anything on time, answer to anybody, you can even change the entire game direction or sell your almost finished product to a major publisher for them to ruin it just before launch and there's nothing a single backer can do about it. 

 

Not because something is unlikely to happen means that it's ok to give the creators the options to just fucking run a scam because this is what this is: a motherfucking scam. A no compromises free money scam to do whatever you want with it when getting money from a bank or an investor (or a publisher) involves actually being accountable. So any crowd funding game IS morally reprehensible under the excuse of "oh nobody wants to just give me money without having to do anything for it but promise shit! Fans help me!" and it's particularly bad for a large and unwieldy project as I mentioned before.