Surface 3 announced, 499$ USD base price, features atom X7 and full windows 8.1 (not RT!)

[GoodBytes]

While I do find it to be expensive given that it is powered by an Atom and doesn't include the keyboard or stylus I probably would've still considered buying this but that 2GB of RAM really puts me off.

$100 more for 4GB RAM and 128GB sounds reasonable but then that comes to $600 without the keyboard. Given at $700 I can buy legit ultrabooks I'm kind of disappointed with the Surface 3.

Hopefully in a couple of months there'll be a sale or some sort of discount then I'll give it another gander.

If you don't need the pen, in my opinion, this device is not for you. Get a ultrabook or laptop. or convertible ultrabook/tablet unless you really want the small form factor. But the pen is everything for this device. So yes you need to add 50$. Students have 10% off the price of the device and accessories.

[GzeroD]

If you don't need the pen, in my opinion, this device is not for you. Get a ultrabook or laptop. or convertible ultrabook/tablet unless you really want the small form factor. But the pen is everything for this device. So yes you need to add 50$. Students have 10% off the price of the device and accessories.

I really hope they don't use syaptics pen tech. My Venue 8 Pro has their 256 level Active pen and digitizer and it is quite horrible; they have sent me 2 replacement pens (different hardware revisions) and the improvement was very minimal. ntrig would be great and even thought its not going to be in a product at this price a wacom Digitizer would be amazing.

[LAwLz]

-> fast SSD and not eMMC (assuming like the Surface Pro line)

Again, I wouldn't bet money on that. The last 2 Surfaces used eMMC so my guess is that this will use that as well. I didn't see any SSD in the (very blurry and short) video with the opened up Surface either.

It's certainly a big plus if it does, but my guess is that it doesn't.

[GoodBytes]

I really hope they don't use syaptics pen tech. My Venue 8 Pro has their 256 level Active pen and digitizer and it is quite horrible; they have sent me 2 replacement pens (different hardware revisions) and the improvement was very minimal. ntrig would be great and even thought its not going to be in a product at this price a wacom Digitizer would be amazing.

It's N-Trig. Surface Pro 3 users can buy Surface 3 colored pen and use with their device, and Surface 3 users can buy Surface Pro 3 pens and use with theirs. Microsoft bought N-Trig as well.

[GoodBytes]

Again, I wouldn't bet money on that. The last 2 Surfaces used eMMC so my guess is that this will use that as well. I didn't see any SSD in the (very blurry and short) video with the opened up Surface either.

It's certainly a big plus if it does, but my guess is that it doesn't.

Yes, you are correct. I checked. So yes it could be eMMC. We will see if they get some super fast ones, or the total crap I've seen on currently released Atom based tablets, which feels like a 5400RPM HDD inside.

[LAwLz]

Yes, you are correct. I checked. So yes it could be eMMC. We will see if they get some super fast ones, or the total crap I've seen on currently released Atom based tablets, which feels like a 5400RPM HDD inside.

Do you or anyone else know how good/bad the eMMC on the previous surface tablets were? The only thing I could find was that the 32GB model of the Surface 1 used as Samsung KLMBG4GE4A, which doesn't tell me a whole lot...

[Opcode]

Do you or anyone else know how good/bad the eMMC on the previous surface tablets were? The only thing I could find was that the 32GB model of the Surface 1 used as Samsung KLMBG4GE4A, which doesn't tell me a whole lot...

Samsung KLMBG4GE4A

 

[Sakkura]

Do you or anyone else know how good/bad the eMMC on the previous surface tablets were? The only thing I could find was that the 32GB model of the Surface 1 used as Samsung KLMBG4GE4A, which doesn't tell me a whole lot...

 

Google says that's eMMC 4.41, which is old and slow. 4.5 and 5.0 have been available for a while, and brand-new 5.1 would really be lightyears ahead.

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8988/samsung-introduces-the-first-emmc-51-based-flash-memory

[NoctHorn]

I'm curious as to the performance of the atom x7 compared to other CPU's.  Have any benchmarks of the kind been released?

[Mew]

Wait this isn't an April fools joke?

[Opcode]

I'm curious as to the performance of the atom x7 compared to other CPU's.  Have any benchmarks of the kind been released?

Look up Bay Trail benchmarks as the x7 uses Airmont architecture (die shrunk Silvermont) so the performance is going to be only ever so slightly better.

 

Wait this isn't an April fools joke?

Nope, the product and hardware used are all very real.

[randomhkkid]

I'm curious as to the performance of the atom x7 compared to other CPU's.  Have any benchmarks of the kind been released?

 

From notebookcheck the x7 is basically a die shrunk Atom-Z3795, taking the benchmarks and comparing them to the Core M 5Y70 will give you a good idea.

Cinebench R15 Single Core: Atom 36pts, Core M 91pts. Atom 40% performance of Core M

Cinebench R15 Multi Core: Atom 134, Core M 182pts. Atom 74% performance of Core M

 

Though bear in mind that the shrink will give the X7 more headroom compared to Silvermont so expect performance to go up slightly.

[Zerzevoulis]

I think the keyboard is sold separately too

[randomhkkid]

I think the keyboard is sold separately too

Yep keyboard and pen sold separately.

[Trafford Devil]

If you don't need the pen, in my opinion, this device is not for you. Get a ultrabook or laptop. or convertible ultrabook/tablet unless you really want the small form factor. But the pen is everything for this device. So yes you need to add 50$. Students have 10% off the price of the device and accessories.

I would like to get the pen but on top of the added cost I'm pretty sure I'll lose it because from what I saw there's no way to store the pen with the Surface. If there was like a little storage place for the pen like the Galaxy Note that'd be pretty cool.

[GoodBytes]

I would like to get the pen but on top of the added cost I'm pretty sure I'll lose it because from what I saw there's no way to store the pen with the Surface. If there was like a little storage place for the pen like the Galaxy Note that'd be pretty cool.

If you use the pen, you won't lose it.

You can put it in a sleeve with the device or bag pocket, you can leave it in your pocket (its in metal).

They cant' put a silo as the system is too thin, as the pen is a normal size pen which is important for conformable writing experience.

All devices that have a thinner pen to make it store in the device, from what I can see from reviews, aren't as good as using a larger pen size of the same technology with the device in terms of tracking and precision.

[WiiManic]

If you use the pen, you won't lose it.

You can put it in a sleeve with the device or bag pocket, you can leave it in your pocket (its in metal).

They cant' put a silo as the system is too thin, as the pen is a normal size pen which is important for conformable writing experience.

All devices that have a thinner pen to make it store in the device, from what I can see from reviews, aren't as good as using a larger pen size of the same technology with the device in terms of tracking and precision.

I was really worried that I'd lose my pen, but I've had it since September and its been fine.

Bought a sleeve to put the SP3 in when I'm not using it and it has a pen loop aswell so I just store it there.

 

This device seems great to me if you are just using the pen/OneNote, with the nicer price should appeal even more to students. Well OneNote, browsing,word processing etc, but nothing very heavy.

Use my SP3 for OneNote daily, but I also use it for VMs, android development etc, so the bit of extra power was needed for me.

[boboman342]

Starting with the base model for $500 and adding the necessary $50 pen and $100 type cover, that's $650! For someone who absolutely loves the functionality of this, it makes sense. Although, for around $300, you can get something like this dell inspiron 11. I see the benefits to students... EXCEPT FOR THE PRICE!

 

[GoodBytes]

True but they are bigger, heavier, and no pen support.

Even the Dell Venue Pro, the pen technology sucks real bad.

(not to mention is has 32GB of storage at most), crappier camera, lower resolution screen, weaker CPU).

[inkrededibles]

I almost got excited but then I remembered americans don't include vats.. So that makes the surface 3 a 100 dollars/euros more expensive then I would want to pay for it. 

It depends. Certain states don't have sales tax, so it's actually much cheaper in those locations. Unfortunately, that's notoriously hard to take advantage of without actually visiting that state, with the exception of Nintendo's 3DS online shop, which lets you input on an honor system where you live. 

[boboman342]

True but they are bigger, heavier, and no pen support.

Even the Dell Venue Pro, the pen technology sucks real bad.

(not to mention is has 32GB of storage at most), crappier camera, lower resolution screen, weaker CPU).

I feel like the low price of the inspiron is justified given the lower specs, but almost identical functionality. I personally don't see the huge price increase worth it, unless you specifically need the little features it has over the competition.

[d3sl91]

True but they are bigger, heavier, and no pen support.

Even the Dell Venue Pro, the pen technology sucks real bad.

(not to mention is has 32GB of storage at most), crappier camera, lower resolution screen, weaker CPU).

Sounds like I'm missing out on pen tech. I have never used one, and so devices like this confuse me when it comes to price, because I'm looking at ultra-books or convertibles that are just about the same price. 

[GoodBytes]

Sounds like I'm missing out on pen tech. I have never used one, and so devices like this confuse me when it comes to price, because I'm looking at ultra-books or convertibles that are just about the same price.

After so many years, Microsoft finally made a nice video showing a bit of the advantages of the pen. Not great, but considering Microsoft marketing, this is like "WOW".

If I had to add something. When you take notes. with OneNotes your pages is "infinite" in both width and height. So you don't need to worry about lack of space, or spiting a problem in 2 pages and go back and forth. You can also search your notes that were handwritten with OneNote.

Personally, when I was a student, I mixed typing and writing in many classes depending on the class. For example I type my notes for speed and legibility, and when comes a formula, drawing or wtv, I use the pen, and continue typing. Math class is obviously all pen, but as mentioned, I don't need to split problems in 2 or 3 anymore, making studying a bit easier. At least for me.

I like the ability to import PDFs from the class in OneNote, and add content to complete them (unless I fall with a professor that loves using custom fonts , insists on using PDFs while not knowing a thing about them, where they don't embedded the font. So unless you are using Adobe Reader specifically, the characters will be missing or appears as boxes or random letters/numbers. This is the case where all fails. Especially if the professor refuses to give you it in Word or something. I have a few professors like that, sadly. They are work around, like printing your noted from Adobe Reader into another PDF, and use that to import in OneNote. or take screen grabs. But it is time consuming, and definitively needs to be done before class starts. And of course as you can image, I even have one of the mentioned professor that only posts the PDF right before class, so you don't have time to really do it. Then again I can't print them before either.

The "problem" with the pen is finding a device where the pen tracking, resolution and response time is good. Doesn't mean it has Wacom or N-Trig that is good necessary. In fact, few devices have it good. And sadly the devices with the good pen technology are much more expensive. I am not sure if it is the manufacture that charges a lot more because they can, as they are so few devices like it with good pen digitizer, or the good technology costs a lot, or a mix of both. But sadly that is the current state of the market. More competition will definitely drop the price down, and popularity of the technology will increase production, which will drop the price further, and more R&D can be invested, allowing for even better pen technologies, faster. I am happy to see that more and more people are discovering the power of the digitize pen technology, as it would lead to just that.

[GoodBytes]

He've got information! Earlier today there was a AMA by teh Surface team on Reddit and here is are interesting question/answers.

 

Q: How is the eMMC performance in comparison to the SP3 SSD?

A: S3 eMMC is about 50% of SP3 SSD. If your workload involves heavy file transfers (like video editing) recommendation is SP3.

Q: Does the Surface 3 have the thermal threshold for CPU cutoff like the SP3? I enjoy playing Dota 2 for a couple of hours and this was the one thing I did not want happening, at the already low settings required to play it.

A: Yes we do thermally throttle on S3. DOTA2 not specifically tested. We did test Civ5 and with 4G SKU at 25+ FPS. Another reference point is 3D Mark Cloud Gate shows S3 at ~70% performance of SP3 i3.

Q: Does the Surface 3 have a TPM?

A: It has a Firmware TPM as part of the SOC

Q: Will the Surface 3 support two 1440p displays via daisy-chained DisplayPort connections?

A: The Surface 3 does not support daisy chaining monitors over DisplayPort. The Pro line is great for folks who need this.

Q: Does the S3 support 4k displays at 60Hz?

A: 4K at 30Hz with Intel X7 Gen8 engine.

Q: Can we convert the charging micro-USB port to a full-size USB port with an adapter, and then plug in any USB device to it?

A: Yes! The micro-USB port charging port also handles USB data

Q: Why did you choose to use the 3 fixed angles for the kickstand of the Surface 3 in comparison to the unfixed kickstand of the Surface Pro 3?

A: We chose to put the 3-position hinges in Surface 3 in order to optimize size and cost of the device. In addition, the 3-position hinges allow the user to flick open the kickstand more easily to the pre-set angles enabling quick operation for on-the go use.

You can go here to view it all: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/31c0tu/we_are_panos_panay_and_the_surface_team_at/

[LAwLz]

He've got information! Earlier today there was a AMA by teh Surface team on Reddit and here is are interesting question/answers.

 

You can go here to view it all: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/31c0tu/we_are_panos_panay_and_the_surface_team_at/

It's awesome of them to do an AmA and answer a lot of those questions. Good job Microsoft. Wish more companies did this.

They seem to avoid some very popular questions though.