Are the people at HP high....?

[tmlhalo]

Right....anecdotal evidence that actual describes the specific fault, and that it happens around the 5 month period. Face it, those HDD have a failure rate reminiscent of the early 90's.

I tagged you in this instead because I'd prefer not having to deal with the nonsense replies at the moment. Here is some sources you can use.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/17/laptop-reliability-survey-asus-and-toshiba-win-hp-fails/

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/244481/desktop_pc_reliability_and_satisfaction_dell_and_hp_home_pcs_get_poor_grades.html

[Dabombinable]

I tagged you in this instead because I'd prefer not having to deal with the nonsense replies at the moment. Here is some sources you can use.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/17/laptop-reliability-survey-asus-and-toshiba-win-hp-fails/

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/244481/desktop_pc_reliability_and_satisfaction_dell_and_hp_home_pcs_get_poor_grades.html

Thanks, I was talking in relation to HDD only, but those are good as well. 

 

 

Do you understand what anecdotal means?  You cannot verify the quantitative extent of those posts, even if every one of them was 100% accurate, it still may only represent 1-2% of the total units sold which would give them the same failure rate as seagate or WD.  Or it might be the other way around.  That is why we do not rely on anecdotal evidence,  you must provide evidence that is properly quantified and qualified.

 

Again, show me where this HP desktop has a higher failure rate than any other.  

I didn't say that HP desktop have a high fail rate, I was talking about the Toshiba HDD that is used in their cheapest builds, which are know to have issues and fail withing a year.

[mr moose]

Thanks, I was talking in relation to HDD only, but those are good as well. 

 

 

I didn't say that HP desktop have a high fail rate, I was talking about the Toshiba HDD that is used in their cheapest builds, which are know to have issues and fail withing a year.

 

Well the primary antagonists in this thread are claiming that the HP pc in question is shit, shit quality, useless and over priced, they used Carey Holzman to support said claims.  Except I have shown that it is neither over priced nor does it fit into any category that can be classified as low quality.  You can argue the toshiba hard drives are rehashed failures from Hitachi all you want, but that does not change the original claims in this thread nor is it something you can prove. 

 

Basically people assumed that because the HP was low powered, cheap and came prebuilt, that it must be shit and you can do better DIY.  To date in this thread no one has been able to prove that to be the case. 

 

 

I tagged you in this instead because I'd prefer not having to deal with the nonsense replies at the moment. Here is some sources you can use.

 

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/17/laptop-reliability-survey-asus-and-toshiba-win-hp-fails/

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/244481/desktop_pc_reliability_and_satisfaction_dell_and_hp_home_pcs_get_poor_grades.html

 

Wow, you discovered that HP had some shit laptops in 2009.  great work, I also notice that so did everyone else and the difference was a few percent and scaled according to manufacture volume. no surprises there.

 

Also If you check the source of your second link:

 

 

It's important to note that our survey results don't necessarily reflect the opinions of a given company's customers as a whole. And because our data comes only from PCWorld readers who chose to take part in the survey, our results don't necessarily reflect the opinions of PCWorld readers in general.

 

 

A lot of people responding about everything from phones to tablets to laptops to desktops, we don't know how many of those actually bought a brand new HP desktop let alone the low end.

 

 

 

Come on people, all I am asking you to do is think critically about this.  Just because it is a low end prebuilt doesn't automatically make it shit, it just means it is aimed at a demographic that can neither afford anything fast nor have the ability to build their own.    I can't believe perfectly intelligent people are falling for the Carey holzman "they didn't use a phillips head screw because they are a low quality company" shill.

[Dabombinable]

Well the primary antagonists in this thread are claiming that the HP pc in question is shit, shit quality, useless and over priced, they used Carey Holzman to support said claims.  Except I have shown that it is neither over priced nor does it fit into any category that can be classified as low quality.  You can argue the toshiba hard drives are rehashed failures from Hitachi all you want, but that does not change the original claims in this thread nor is it something you can prove. 

 

Basically people assumed that because the HP was low powered, cheap and came prebuilt, that it must be shit and you can do better DIY.  To date in this thread no one has been able to prove that to be the case. 

 

 

 

Wow, you discovered that HP had some shit laptops in 2009.  great work, I also notice that so did everyone else and the difference was a few percent and scaled according to manufacture volume. no surprises there.

 

Also If you check the source of your second link:

 

 

A lot of people responding about everything from phones to tablets to laptops to desktops, we don't know how many of those actually bought a brand new HP desktop let alone the low end.

 

 

 

Come on people, all I am asking you to do is think critically about this.  Just because it is a low end prebuilt doesn't automatically make it shit, it just means it is aimed at a demographic that can neither afford anything fast nor have the ability to build their own.    I can't believe perfectly intelligent people are falling for the Carey holzman "they didn't use a phillips head screw because they are a low quality company" shill.

That part I don't quite get, Torx screws are normally more expensive (however small the difference might be) than phillips, and since the bits are specific sizes for each screw it actually makes it more difficult to bur the head.

[mr moose]

That part I don't quite get, Torx screws are normally more expensive (however small the difference might be) than phillips, and since the bits are specific sizes for each screw it actually makes it more difficult to bur the head.

 

When this video came up the last time, I put the screw choice by HP down to few possibilities:   The screws may not be more expensive due to their global procurement.  They may also want to try and avoid having people opening up the case because the general target sales demographic is more likely to do damage than good if they go poking around the inside (see keyboard leg warning as an example). Also if their factory is setup for torx bits then it might be cheaper to keep using more expensive screws than to swap out all the bits to phillips. 

 

These are just thoughts, I have not read or seen anything to confirm this. 

 

EDIT: But you are right, they typically are a bit more expensive and over however many millions of these thing they produce the savings, one would assume, would be large enough to consider.  So I assume they did consider it and there is something we don't know.

[tmlhalo]

Well the primary antagonists in this thread are claiming that the HP pc in question is shit, shit quality, useless and over priced, they used Carey Holzman to support said claims.  Except I have shown that it is neither over priced nor does it fit into any category that can be classified as low quality.  You can argue the toshiba hard drives are rehashed failures from Hitachi all you want, but that does not change the original claims in this thread nor is it something you can prove. 

 

Basically people assumed that because the HP was low powered, cheap and came prebuilt, that it must be shit and you can do better DIY.  To date in this thread no one has been able to prove that to be the case. 

 

 

 

Wow, you discovered that HP had some shit laptops in 2009.  great work, I also notice that so did everyone else and the difference was a few percent and scaled according to manufacture volume. no surprises there.

 

Also If you check the source of your second link:

 

 

A lot of people responding about everything from phones to tablets to laptops to desktops, we don't know how many of those actually bought a brand new HP desktop let alone the low end.

 

 

 

Come on people, all I am asking you to do is think critically about this.  Just because it is a low end prebuilt doesn't automatically make it shit, it just means it is aimed at a demographic that can neither afford anything fast nor have the ability to build their own.    I can't believe perfectly intelligent people are falling for the Carey holzman "they didn't use a phillips head screw because they are a low quality company" shill.

And you still tagged me.... Great. You know people generally have a negative opinion from a company from repetitive negative experiences right...? Carey Holzman didn't have to call HP shit for me to have thought they were shit. I've owned 3  HPs + 1 Compaq (HP owned at the time) in the past. You're right, I am one person. One person of the many people in this thread you want to call our disdain unjustified. You hold that tidal wave back. Anyone that has something negative to say about HP is obvious, eh how did you put it, "Come on people, all I am asking you to do is think critically about this.", so not thinking critically. The GPU heatsink pealing away from my laptop's GPU IHS was so awesome! (with critical thinking excitement over the shitty laptop).

 

Then you call 25% failure rate in line with the other vendors. You know what sure, I feel like being a nice guy, have that point. The funny thing is even though if we nod and agree and say that is in line, HP is also DEAD LAST in terms of working machines surviving across 2-3 years. DEAD LAST in a poll about customer experience. Oh no, can't have a customer experience survey those shitty experiences from their HP computers are subjective! I hope you don't watch any of Linus's reviews, some of his subjective thoughts on the product might be heard.

 

I'm sorry you missed the point of his videos. You see the video was why you don't buy a $329 computer. For the same reason no one on this forum will recommend buying a $10 CoolMax PSU. The reason Linus doesn't recommend the R5 240. You love sources though so 9:04 Part 1. 

[mr moose]

And you still tagged me.... Great. You know people generally have a negative opinion from a company from repetitive negative experiences right...? Carey Holzman didn't have to call HP shit for me to have thought they were shit. I've owned 3  HPs + 1 Compaq (HP owned at the time) in the past. You're right, I am one person. One person of the many people in this thread you want to call our disdain unjustified. You hold that tidal wave back. Anyone that has something negative to say about HP is obvious, eh how did you put it, "Come on people, all I am asking you to do is think critically about this.", so not thinking critically. The GPU heatsink pealing away from my laptop's GPU IHS was so awesome! (with critical thinking excitement over the shitty laptop).

 

Then you call 25% failure rate in line with the other vendors. You know what sure, I feel like being a nice guy, have that point. The funny thing is even though if we nod and agree and say that is in line, HP is also DEAD LAST in terms of working machines surviving across 2-3 years. DEAD LAST in a poll about customer experience. Oh no, can't have a customer experience survey those shitty experiences from their HP computers are subjective! I hope you don't watch any of Linus's reviews, some of his subjective thoughts on the product might be heard.

 

I'm sorry you missed the point of his videos. You see the video was why you don't buy a $329 computer. For the same reason no one on this forum will recommend buying a $10 CoolMax PSU. The reason Linus doesn't recommend the R5 240. You love sources though so 9:04 Part 1. 

 

If you don't want to be tagged and drawn into the discussion then don't post opinions.  

 

That 25% is a three year projection from a company that sells extended warranties, not an actual figure which was between 9 and 15% for ALL manufacturers. Also it is about laptops from 2009 not desktops from 2013.  So forgive me if I want people to think critically about this instead of relying on assumption and personal feelings.

[tmlhalo]

If you don't want to be tagged and drawn into the discussion then don't post opinions.  

 

That 25% is a three year projection from a company that sells extended warranties, not an actual figure which was between 9 and 15% for ALL manufacturers. Also it is about laptops from 2009 not desktops from 2013.  So forgive me if I want people to think critically about this instead of relying on assumption and personal feelings.

So the part about them being dead last on both charts. You just going to blow that over or...?

[-iSynthesis]

So i just came across this HP Pavillion with an AMD A10 5700 and integrated HD 7660D graphics. Installed in this computer was also a Nvidia GT 620 GPU and on the back of the motherboard was the onboard DVI/VGA blocked by covers that say "DO NOT REMOVE" on them as shown in this picture.

 

So rather than doing dual graphics they paired a GT 620 GPU with an AMD APU system rendering the HD 7660D graphics completely useless? On top of that the GT 620 GPU is WORSE than HD 7660D? The ONLY reasoning that i can find behind this is that the GT 620 has an HDMI port but HP could have just put one on their motherboard....

 

hp stupid.jpg

HP is by far the most retarded company i've seen, my HP Laptop is thick, gets hot, is slow as fuck and is loud.

[mr moose]

So the part about them being dead last on both charts. You just going to blow that over or...?

 

Well I am certainly not going to take an average figure from a warranty company and assume that the 4-5% difference between laptop brands in 2009 has some major bearing on desktop pcs in 2013.  That's just plain ignorant.   Maybe if I am looking to buy a laptop made in 2009  I'll consider that report.

[tmlhalo]

Well I am certainly not going to take an average figure from a warranty company and assume that the 4-5% difference between laptop brands in 2009 has some major bearing on desktop pcs in 2013.  That's just plain ignorant.   Maybe if I am looking to buy a laptop made in 2009  I'll consider that report.

I know right? HP makes all their return rates so transparent I have no idea why I would have linked the most recent study done across computer brand vendors for their products. So foolish of me. Maybe I should turn the tables. Can you find anything stating their return rates for desktops in the year 2014-2015 specifically? Nothing else will work, and since I provided the last most recent study I'll just have to use that otherwise. 

Also how is 9:04 treating you in the part 1 video? Is it making you want to run out and buy a CoolMax $10 psu? I mean afterall they probably have some obscure return rates that we can only use customer feedback and professional reviews to judge. But those are too subject after all.

[Dabombinable]

HP is by far the most retarded company i've seen, my HP Laptop is thick, gets hot, is slow as fuck and is loud.

My old Compaq (from 2002/2003 - plenty of HP stickers inside it) is thick, fast in everything except games and video editing, and never gets hot even with its Pentium 4 3.2GHz @ 3.9GHz. You got ripped.

[mr moose]

I know right? HP makes all their return rates so transparent I have no idea why I would have linked the most recent study done across computer brand vendors for their products. So foolish of me. Maybe I should turn the tables. Can you find anything stating their return rates for desktops in the year 2014-2015 specifically? Nothing else will work, and since I provided the last most recent study I'll just have to use that otherwise. 

Also how is 9:04 treating you in the part 1 video? Is it making you want to run out and buy a CoolMax $10 psu? I mean afterall they probably have some obscure return rates that we can only use customer feedback and professional reviews to judge. But those are too subject after all.

 

Your making the claim, you need to provide the proof. laptop surveys from 2009 are not desktop failure rates from 2013, please if you can;t understand that then you may as well argue banana. because banana is all the evidence you need to continue making assumptions.

 

 

I have already linked this:

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/131739-microsoft-analyzes-over-a-million-pc-failures-results-shatter-enthusiast-myths

 

Which gives a good look the difference between brand name pcs and white box pcs.  White box pcs includes all DIY, no name shop built and custom jobs from people like Carey holzman.   The failure rate due to hardware is worse on white box than brand, given there are multitudes more brand name boxes out there that says a lot.

 

EDIT: I also need to ask, if a laptop survey from 2009 is the best data you can find, how did you come to the conclusion the quality of this unit is so bad?

[Dabombinable]

Your making the claim, you need to provide the proof. laptop surveys from 2009 are not desktop failure rates from 2013, please if you can;t understand that then you may as well argue banana. because banana is all the evidence you need to continue making assumptions.

 

 

I have already linked this:

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/131739-microsoft-analyzes-over-a-million-pc-failures-results-shatter-enthusiast-myths

 

Which gives a good look the difference between brand name pcs and white box pcs.  White box pcs includes all DIY, no name shop built and custom jobs from people like Carey holzman.   The failure rate due to hardware is worse on white box than brand, given there are multitudes more brand name boxes out there that says a lot.

Any of the crash data they receive from me is purely from overclocking fuck ups (like installing a CPU the wrong way after doing the socket mod-rip E8500 and Xeon X5450). 

[mr moose]

Any of the crash data they receive from me is purely from overclocking fuck ups (like installing a CPU the wrong way after doing the socket mod-rip E8500 and Xeon X5450). 

 

That is taken into account, that is why there is data for crashes of overclocked versus non overclocked systems.

[tmlhalo]

Your making the claim, you need to provide the proof. laptop surveys from 2009 are not desktop failure rates from 2013, please if you can;t understand that then you may as well argue banana. because banana is all the evidence you need to continue making assumptions.

 

 

I have already linked this:

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/131739-microsoft-analyzes-over-a-million-pc-failures-results-shatter-enthusiast-myths

 

Which gives a good look the difference between brand name pcs and white box pcs.  White box pcs includes all DIY, no name shop built and custom jobs from people like Carey holzman.   The failure rate due to hardware is worse on white box than brand, given there are multitudes more brand name boxes out there that says a lot.

So if you lump in the crappy OEMs with good OEMs you get an average that is better than a bunch of enthusiasts that ride their systems hard. Wow. That doesn't prove or disprove that HP by its own merits is better or worse than if I went out and bought a bunch of parts and did it myself. It proves as a combined blob locked down tight systems where they don't let you do anything have a lower failure rate than a bunch of techies that do all sorts of stuff. Outstanding! It on top of that has no bearing on the quality of the good purchased since yet again Carey's video was why you don't buy the cheapest thing on the shelf. You showed me. 

[Dabombinable]

That is taken into account, that is why there is data for crashes of overclocked versus non overclocked systems.

I will say this though, its expected for laptops to have a higher failure rate, and a lot of hardware failures can be traced back to improper care and/or ignorance (eg. my dad-the last time I told him to keep the area around his computer clean after servicing his laptop he said 'do you want me to ask the world to stop making dust, less than 3 months later he was complaining about his laptop getting hot and shutting down-which all goes back to dust and the tiny heatsink and fan that is the curse of laptops getting thinner-HP Pavillion DV6 and my second favourite laptop after my ancient Compaq Presario R3000 - 12/13 years old and made before HP ruined Compaq's name).

[mr moose]

So if you lump in the crappy OEMs with good OEMs you get an average that is better than a bunch of enthusiasts that ride their systems hard. Wow. That doesn't prove or disprove that HP by its own merits is better or worse than if I went out and bought a bunch of parts and did it myself. It proves as a combined blob locked down tight systems where they don't let you do anything have a lower failure rate than a bunch of techies that do all sorts of stuff. Outstanding! It on top of that has no bearing on the quality of the good purchased since yet again Carey's video was why you don't buy the cheapest thing on the shelf. You showed me. 

 

um o.k.  Sure...           you just stick to your laptop data from 2009, clearly it is more relevant to your agenda.

[tmlhalo]

um o.k.  Sure...           you just stick to your laptop data from 2009, clearly it is more relevant to your agenda.

"Top 20 computer OEMs as “brand names”" Guys, you see, a study with top 20 combined averaged out to be better! Therefore HP is better! Bah 

[mr moose]

"Top 20 computer OEMs as “brand names”" Guys, you see, a study with top 20 combined averaged out to be better! Therefore HP is better! Bah 

 

So from this it is also apparent that you don't know the difference between an oem and a brand.  HP are not oem's,  A company that supplies parts or manufacturing is an OEM, The finished product and design process/quality control is not.

[tmlhalo]

So from this it is also apparent that you don't know the difference between an oem and a brand.  HP are not oem's,  A company that supplies parts or manufacturing is an OEM, The finished product and design process/quality control is not.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#newwindow=1&q=is+hp+an+oem

I wasn't expecting you to resort to grammar nazi mode so quickly. 

[tmlhalo]

So from this it is also apparent that you don't know the difference between an oem and a brand.  HP are not oem's,  A company that supplies parts or manufacturing is an OEM, The finished product and design process/quality control is not.

I guess HP doesn't relabel someone else's products as a HP. Who would have known... Oh wait.

[ANewFace]

Let me tell you something, there is no way they can be more high then Dell

[Dabombinable]

So from this it is also apparent that you don't know the difference between an oem and a brand.  HP are not oem's,  A company that supplies parts or manufacturing is an OEM, The finished product and design process/quality control is not.

 

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#newwindow=1&q=is+hp+an+oem

I wasn't expecting you to resort to grammar nazi mode so quickly. 

http://www.rescuecom.com/news-press-releases/computer-reliability-report-2014.aspxhttp://www.rescuecom.com/news-press-releases/computer-reliability-report-2014.aspx

Does this help? I'll keep looking for more sources.

Note that HP is in the top ten, which still doesn't mean that they don't make bad computers (I'm not saying all of them are bad, just some). 

Edit: Hmmm, I didn't realise that their were so few main manufacturers.

[mr moose]

I guess HP doesn't relabel someone else's products as a HP. Who would have known... Oh wait.

So, you call anything that is made by someone else an OEM?  that would be everything from phones to cars.  Who would have thought you could call the broncho a ford OEM.  Or the iPhone an apple OEM.  :rolleyes:

 

http://www.rescuecom.com/news-press-releases/computer-reliability-report-2014.aspxhttp://www.rescuecom.com/news-press-releases/computer-reliability-report-2014.aspx

Does this help? I'll keep looking for more sources.

broken link.