Why is there a constant flame war on this thread?

[PlayModeOn]

You are in a catch 22 to be fair, as you skimped out on the motherboard at the initial build. So you do kind of need to physically upgrade either just the motherboard to one that can handle that FX8350. Or just jump right on over to intel. Those are your only two options in fairness, as your motherboard isn't fit for purpose with an FX8350. I learnt way back in 2001 that you should never go too cheap with regards to a motherboard. Things have changed on the intel side to a point, but it is just business as usual on the AMD side of the fence.

Edit: I dont know what you will do, but you have to decide for yourself what is better for you in the long run. But there is a new motherboard from Asrock on the market for AMD, and with an 8+2 power phase (apparently).

Fatal1ty 970 performance: http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/Fatal1ty%20970%20Performance/

It is around £60 in the uk, and supposedly supports 3 way crossfire, and has an M.2 socket. It appears to have more options than the MSI 970 gaming, and at a slightly lower price point, and better power phase design. I believe it has only released this month, and I dont believe I have seen anyone post about it on here yet.

Personally I would buy a new motherboard for the FX8350 with a better power phase, since it isn't a cheap cpu in and of itself. But I can not advise you, or anyone else to do the same as I would.

 

I decide not to buy another AMD product again whether it's CPU, GPU, RAM or motherboards. When do you think a good time to jump into Intel for me? I could do it now (i7 4790K) or with Skylake (hoping it is unlocked before 2016)

Thanks.

 

EDIT: Again some idiot recommended me this FX-8350 and motherboard of which they should never have done. At that time I was transitioning from consoles to PC so I was willingly accept any advice I can get. It is partially my fault for allowing that to happen but what can you do. This was 12 months ago when I built my very first PC.

[Ialyrn]

The motherboard is the only real problem with your system, the cpu is capable in the vast majority of games. AMD needs to have a decent motherboard under it, and like faceman says, with a decent power phase design. If you had an FX6 or FX4, your motherboard wouldn't be holding you back. Back a year ago, the cpu advice wasnt 100% wrong at the time.

Baring that though, i cant decide when or what you purchase though.

[i_build_nanosuits]

I decide not to buy another AMD product again whether it's CPU, GPU, RAM or motherboards. When do you think a good time to jump into Intel for me? I could do it now (i7 4790K) or with Skylake (hoping it is unlocked before 2016)

Thanks.

 

EDIT: Again some idiot recommended me this FX-8350 and motherboard of which they should never have done. At that time I was transitioning from consoles to PC so I was willingly accept any advice I can get. It is partially my fault for allowing that to happen but what can you do. This was 12 months ago when I built my very first PC.

i've done this upgrade months ago mate!..there is no reasons to wait the haswell i7 processors are so fast and strong that they will very likely play games on maximum details settings when paired with high end graphics cards for the next 3 to 5 years easily.

[Faceman]

Alright... the argument that "the energy cost savings is relevant at $10+ per year" is not a relevant argument. Please stop.

 

Let me pass the mic to my man JayzTwoCents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBeeGHozSY0

Your man "Jay" is a hack.  While he has some good videos on watercooling, and the videos he does with his daughter building PCs are cute, he is wrong on a lot of his videos, including this one.

 

I also want to throw in these power consumption graphs.

 

Top graph is power draw during Far Cry 3.  This is a good example because Far Cry 3 hits both the CPU and GPU adequately.   Some games will draw more power, some less, so this is a good middle of the road example.

 

The Below graph is during a x264 Encoding Benchmark with all processors at stock speeds.  This is hitting the CPU to the max 100%, and you can see when both an i5 and FX8 are hit to the max, there is a 100W+ difference.

 

Power consumption is another aspect of the FX CPU that needs to be talked about.  It draws so much more power than the Intel equivalent, that in just 2-3 years of use, the FX will end up costing you even more money.  Of course some places it is less expensive for energy than others, but you cannot deny that there is a 100W+ difference between an FX8 and an i5.  This power disparity only grows the further you overclock the FX.

 

I will use the average price of residential electricity in the U.S., which is $0.1294c per KWh according to EIA in September 2014.  I wish I could exclude Hawaii, because the electricity there kinda skews things unfavorably, so for this example, we will assume the average price is a flat $0.12 per KWh.  We will also assume that the overclocked FX power draw is 100W higher than the stock i5.  Lastly, lets assume that the average gamer plays for two hours per day, with an additional 2 hours of regular use(non-gaming), so lets just call it 3 hours a day to make it easy.

 

Power Consumption = 100W

Hours of Use Per Day = 3

Energy Consumed Per Day = .3 KWh

Price Per Killowatt Hour = $0.12

 

Energy Cost Per Day = $0.036

Energy Cost Per Month = $1.08

Energy Cost Per Year = $13.14

 

With our quick and dirty calculation, we see that the difference between the FX and i5 is going to add up to over $10 per year, and that is a conservative, no-overclock estimate.  With most of us wanting to keep our components as long as possible before having to upgrade, owning components for 2-3 years, and sometimes even longer, is not out of the question and that energy cost per year really starts to add up.

 

 

If you would like to calculate this for yourself, you will need to find out what the cost of energy is where you are located, and these two formulas:

Energy consumption calculation

The energy E in kilowatt-hours (kWh) per day is equal to the power P in watts (W) times number of usage hours per day t divided by 1000 watts per kilowatt:

E_(kWh/day) = P_(W) × t_(h/day) / 1000_(W/kW)

Energy cost calculation

The energy cost per day in dollars is equal to the energy consumption E in kWh per day times the energy cost of 1 kWh in cents/kWh divided by 100 cents per dollar:

Cost_($/day) = E_(kWh/day) × Cost_(cent/kWh) / 100_(cent/$)

[Faceman]

@Ialyrn

 

I recommend the H81 motherboard because I am showing what it costs on both platforms to get the most performance for the lowest price.  With Intel, all you need is an H81 motherboard to extract the most performance out of a locked CPU.  2 DIMMs is all you need.  8GB is more than enough RAM, or if you really want, buy a single 8GBx1 stick, and upgrade to 16GB later.  In fact, sometimes it is even less expensive to buy 8GBx1 DIMM rather than 4GBx2 and the performance difference is minimal, we're talking 5% +/-.  The only real downside that I see to an H81 motherboard, is that it only has 2 fan headers.  You can easily buy a B85 motherboard for $10 more and get your precious 4 DIMMs and additional motherboard fan headers.

[WaitForMeImOnDialUp]

wow  you guys have no life....the same amd bashers still spamming the thread and now mockingly posting benches making fun of amd users.....classy

 

the funny thing is the main one bashing is using a 3570k which is a side grade to the 8350..not a upgrade. you got a guy using a cpu about as good as the 8350 bashing the 8350 lol.

 

it isnt all about single core speed anymore, times are changing. thats why 8350 with mantle is on par with a 4790k without mantle in battlefield 4.

 

dx 12 is copying mantle with how it evenly spread loads over all cores instead of mainly putting on core 0 then whatevers next.

 

so keep hating , my 8350 plays all game ultra everything no problem...wont bottleneck a 980/290x/ or even a r9 295x2

 

you guys also forget to mention how these same 3 games from 2009 beat amd because the were highly favoring intel.

 

also that almost anyone with benchmarks not giving amd credit is sponsered by intel including linus.

[Opcode]

We aren't bashing AMD FX, we're bashing here the lies people keep spreading. Intel is just the better choice for price/performance for gaming and you only have to accept it and not come to us "AMD is fine, you fanboy, only few more fps, 200$ is cheaper than 200$" when the freaking question was which is better. I'll give you a good example of what kinda lies people here spray;

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/48571-intel-amd-architectural-discussion-how-far-ahead-is-intel/

All benchmarks he included AMD won. Only used that GameGPU as source when 500 other sources are saying the opposite while matching each others result even.

Here that guy salesman managed to sell the OP a 8320; http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/79053-fx-8320-vs-i5-3570k-and-new-mobo/

Halfyear later the OP was reporting CPU bottlenecks; http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/230750-issues-with-fx-8320/

Later on the OP upgraded to a 4670K and showed the difference; http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/245290-fx8320-to-i5-4670k-performance-gains/

When I joined this forum, everyone was literally spamming the thread with 8320 nonsense in any 4670K vs 8350 thread, haven't even seen a single guy recommending the i5. I was literally the only one who was recommending the i5, can't even remember a guy going with the 8350 anymore since I joined this forum, proving all AMD fanatics wrong hence why they hate me like shit. Theyve even gone down to the level of fabricating benchmarks. Many of the people who have advertised the shit out of the 8350 have upgraded to Intel and you'll do the same soon.

Most people here probably hate you because you fabricate your own opinions on matters that you have no clue about. I for one don't mind stepping in and mopping the floor with you when need be to keep the community ridden of lies and rumors. For that I am not very well liked either tho there's quite a few people who enjoy watching me put people in their place. The trick to that is not be biased. Apples are apples and oranges are oranges.

[Faceman]

Most people here probably hate you because you fabricate your own opinions on matters that you have no clue about. I for one don't mind stepping in and mopping the floor with you when need be to keep the community ridden of lies and rumors. For that I am not very well liked either tho there's quite a few people who enjoy watching me put people in their place. The trick to that is not be biased. Apples are apples and oranges are oranges.

There is no opinion to fabricate.  It is PROVEN, over and over from multiple sources all over the Internet that i3s are on par, and outperforming FX8s.  Locked i5s trounce them.

 

There is no bias, this is fact.  The earth is round, yet people are running around claiming it is still flat.

[Opcode]

There is no opinion to fabricate.  It is PROVEN, over and over from multiple sources all over the Internet that i3s are on par, and outperforming FX8s.  Locked i5s trounce them.

 

There is no bias, this is fact.  The earth is round, yet people are running around claiming it is still flat.

Did I say they weren't the i3-4150 even mops the floor with the FX-8350 in gaming. Don't fall into Faa's footsteps as he does the same thing you're attempting to do.

[Faceman]

Did I say they weren't the i3-4150 even mops the floor with the FX-8350 in gaming. Don't fall into Faa's footsteps as he does the same thing you're attempting to do.

Where do you say this?  I'm looking and this is the first post I see you make on this thread.

 

There is no attempting to do anything.  This is proven that for gaming Intel is the superior option, which is also what you're saying if I'm reading that first sentence correctly?

[Opcode]

Where do you say this?  I'm looking and this is the first post I see you make on this thread.

 

There is no attempting to do anything.  This is proven that for gaming Intel is the superior option, which is also what you're saying if I'm reading that first sentence correctly?

Strong apprehension of "Intel is the best there is yo" comes out with the way you worded your post.

[Analog]

Strong apprehension of "Intel is the best there is yo" comes out with the way you worded your post.

 

That AMD sponsored rig in your signature doesn't really contribute tackle the negative perception people have, regarding your alleged unbiased opinion, etc in this topic and any other topic where there is a fanboy war between Intel and AMD.   

[Opcode]

That AMD sponsored rig in your signature doesn't really contribute tackle the negative perception people have, regarding your alleged unbiased opinion, etc in this topic and any other topic where there is a fanboy war between Intel and AMD.   

I trust people won't jump to conclusions based on what hardware I run. Especially it being sponsored who wouldn't turn down free hardware. It was a major overhaul from my Athlon x3 450.

[Analog]

I trust people won't jump to conclusions based on what hardware I run. Especially it being sponsored who wouldn't turn down free hardware. It was a major overhaul from my Athlon x3 450.

 

Unless the manufacturer doesn't expect nothing in return, it is not free, and no one does anything for free simply out of the goodness of their heart. 

[Opcode]

Unless the manufacturer doesn't expect nothing in return, it is not free, and no one does anything for free simply out of the goodness of their heart. 

I earned it as you could say, but for what was requested of me it was pretty much free in my opinion. And the GPU came from another source which was indefinitely free (straight shipped to me).

[Faa]

Most people here probably hate you because you fabricate your own opinions on matters that you have no clue about. I for one don't mind stepping in and mopping the floor with you when need be to keep the community ridden of lies and rumors. For that I am not very well liked either tho there's quite a few people who enjoy watching me put people in their place. The trick to that is not be biased. Apples are apples and oranges are oranges.

People like you are only mopping their own, as an autist it will take you let's say 10-20 years so when you're 50 years old you'll ask yourself why you still can't afford a proper PC as a game developer. I've proven you like 10-15 times wrong to a point that you came up lying in the form of "from my own sources I heard Nvidia stole Mantle code for their 337.50 driver". http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/277275-will-amd-make-a-comeback-against-intel-once-dx12-comes-out-and-mainstream-developers-kill-support-for-4-cores/page-3#entry3779237

Here another good thread I made you look like a total fool; http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/277637-iiyama-28-4k-adaptive-syncfreesync-monitor-launched-with-free-mail-in-upgrade/page-2

Good jokes over there "All monitors with DP1.2A are capable of Freesync with a Firmware update" when the freaking manufacturer was offering a PCB swap.

Also another thread where you "I AM A GAME DEVELOPER" claimed that you can execute a single software thread on more than 1 hardware thread -> http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/279104-prove-amds-superiority-to-me/page-6#entry3809274

The reason you quoted me now is; you're trying to make a comeback and that's freaking clear at this point.

 

 

That AMD sponsored rig in your signature doesn't really contribute tackle the negative perception people have, regarding your alleged unbiased opinion, etc in this topic and any other topic where there is a fanboy war between Intel and AMD.   

Lol really? I remember a long time ago he was basically Intel-pro, you saw him arguing with 8350 fanatics and now you're seeing him spreading lies here. He's nothing more than astroturfing for AMD.

[Opcode]

People like you are only mopping their own, as an autist it will take you let's say 10-20 years so when you're 50 years old you'll ask yourself why you still can't afford a proper PC as a game developer. I've proven you like 10-15 times wrong to a point that you came up lying in the form of "from my own sources I heard Nvidia stole Mantle code for their 337.50 driver". http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/277275-will-amd-make-a-comeback-against-intel-once-dx12-comes-out-and-mainstream-developers-kill-support-for-4-cores/page-3#entry3779237

You got proof?

 

Here another good thread I made you look like a total fool; http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/277637-iiyama-28-4k-adaptive-syncfreesync-monitor-launched-with-free-mail-in-upgrade/page-2

Good jokes over there "All monitors with DP1.2A are capable of Freesync with a Firmware update" when the freaking manufacturer was offering a PCB swap.

Pretty much mopped the floor with you in that thread.

 

Also another thread where you "I AM A GAME DEVELOPER" claimed that you can execute a single software thread on more than 1 hardware thread -> http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/279104-prove-amds-superiority-to-me/page-6#entry3809274

Never made that statement in my life. You need to brush up on your english or something. Do please post where exactly I have made that statement. Sometime today sir. 

 

The reason you quoted me now is; you're trying to make a comeback and that's freaking clear at this point.

I'm not making no comeback I just like informing the community of people like yourself who like to twist and bend facts to make yourself sound right when you're about as wrong as it gets.

 

It's a walk in the park for me to prove how extensive your knowledge is. Hell I don't even need to try if you keep posting links to me making you look like a fool.  :lol:

[vlkn´]

what did you say about intel and nvidia m8?

[Dabombinable]

From what I understand, hyperthreading is just there so that as each task is finished, another one is right there ready to go therefore maximizing cpu utilization.

[harrynowl]

From what I understand, hyperthreading is just there so that as each task is finished, another one is right there ready to go therefore maximizing cpu utilization.

I believe it just allows 2 instructions to be loaded into the pipeline at a given time, originally conceived for the netburst arch as that had a super long 31 stage pipeline.

[Opcode]

From what I understand, hyperthreading is just there so that as each task is finished, another one is right there ready to go therefore maximizing cpu utilization.

Hyper-Threading is essentially two virtual threads running from one physical processor.

[Dabombinable]

I believe it just allows 2 instructions to be loaded into the pipeline at a given time, originally conceived for the netburst arch as that had a super long 31 stage pipeline.

It definitely made a difference, my old P4 (3.2GHz Northwood - before Intel started badging them as the P4 HT) was noticeably slower at multitasking when HT was turned off.

[Faa]

Never made that statement in my life. You need to brush up on your english or something. Do please post where exactly I have made that statement. Sometime today sir. 

You say a single software thread scales the best on a single hardware thread, meaning it would scale worse on multiple hardware threads or why else would you say that it scales well on one single hardware thread if it can't even use more than 1 hardware thread? You clearly made the statement and you're backpedaling now.

[Opcode]

You say a single software thread scales the best on a single hardware thread, meaning it would scale worse on multiple hardware threads or why else would you say that it scales well on one single hardware thread if it can't even use more than 1 hardware thread? You clearly made the statement and you're backpedaling now.

Yep, a single software thread only scales well on a single hardware thread. Try running five heavy threads on a single hardware thread.

 

Anything else you want to discuss to make yourself look even more ignorant?

 

P.S. I explained this to Faa with completion ports in my original post.

[Dabombinable]

You say a single software thread scales the best on a single hardware thread, meaning it would scale worse on multiple hardware threads or why else would you say that it scales well on one single hardware thread if it can't even use more than 1 hardware thread? You clearly made the statement and you're backpedaling now.

My understanding is this: 1 software thread works on 1 hardware thread in normal circumstances, as more hardware threads are added that 1 software thread keeps working on the 1 hardware thread. As you have more hardware threads available you can run more software threads simultaneously. However if you have 1 hardware thread and add more than 1 software thread the overall execution speed of each thread decreases.