UK Anime Fan Convicted for Having "Illegal Pictures of Imaginary Children"

[DigitalHermit]

Welp, time to strap firecrackers to my disks...

 

What is it with governments and thought crimes? What's next, putting us in jail because of a wet dream??

[LAwLz]

well most cartoons are about talking animals. Anime is more about "perfect" humans - it's not all porn for god sake! why are people always looking from the point of view of sexuality??? There is porn Manga/Anime for 18+ and there are just normal animes (school stories, horror, sport, adventure, etc.) for everybody. Did the UK law ban anime/manga in the country just cuz there are cartoony naked girls in a school swimming pool for example?

I am not sure how strict the law is, but it doesn't ban all anime. My guess is that "ecchi" and more would be classified as child porn if there are underage characters in it. So yes, naked in the school swimming pool would be illegal. Just kids swimming in the school swimming pool while wearing their (really erotic, if you ask me) school swimsuits then it's fine. If they start undressing afterwards then you're in trouble again.

 

By the way, it is illegal in quite a few countries so I recommend everyone who like ecchi anime/manga to look into the laws in your country.

You might want to get rid of it (or bring it up as an issue with your politicians).

[WhiteSkyMage]

I am not sure how strict the law is, but it doesn't ban all anime. My guess is that "ecchi" and more would be classified as child porn if there are underage characters in it. So yes, naked in the school swimming pool would be illegal. Just kids swimming in the school swimming pool while wearing their (really erotic, if you ask me) school swimsuits then it's fine. If they start undressing afterwards then you're in trouble again.

 

By the way, it is illegal in quite a few countries so I recommend everyone who like ecchi anime/manga to look into the laws in your country.

You might want to get rid of it (or bring it up as an issue with your politicians).

 

It is very hard to catch you. In Switzerland is forbidden too, but do you think i care? I still collect all kinds of genre even if ecchi or not... If you wanna know, people even share porn manga in school and no1 really cares... 

Illegal or not, as I said, people aren't that stupid, they know how to hide it. I went crazy about the article cuz if they ban that, later on, they might ban more of it just cuz it's mixed genres. I am guessing animes like Sword Art Online are already illegal in UK, even if popular, still people watch it. This law won't change anything, it will just create MORE crime! Government will just have to accept it - not everyone who watches that kind of stuff is a pedo...why are they going so far with that idea i don't understand. 

[brokencross]

Well technically and anime = cartoons to those in Japan. The only real difference is the market is bigger for it in Japan and cartoons aren't just for kiss there.

Anime? You mean chinese cartoons.

As for the article itself, I really don't see what constitutes crime given the context. Oh well, gotta love common law.

Getting off with cartoons is still pretty fucked up, tho.

[WhiteSkyMage]

Anime? You mean chinese cartoons.

As for the article itself, I really don't see what constitutes crime given the context. Oh well, gotta love common law.

Getting off with cartoons is still pretty fucked up, tho.

 

Can you tell me, when did chinese started making animes? You seem like you never watched one? What language do they speak in?

 

IT IS JAPANESE FOR SAKE! 

 

China is not Japan!!! 

 

Anime ≠ Cartoon

[LAwLz]

Can you tell me, when did chinese started making animes? You seem like you never watched one? What language do they speak in?

IT IS JAPANESE FOR SAKE!

China is not Japan!!!

It's a troll. Ignore it.

[smjpl]

Okay as someone who never watches any anime or manga or whatever else is out there, I can see both sides of the story. While I do agree with some of the comments in this thread ("it is only a cartoon/not real"), I ask, where do you draw the line? Lets go way overboard for a second. Would you agree with a video game that is clearly about pedophilia? We all know it isn't real a person being abused but the intention is still very much there. So now take it back a notch. What about videos that hint at pedophilia? And by the sounds of it, some of these videos do hint quite strongly at pedophilia. Lawlz posted three scenarios and I think all three hint towards pedophilia and two can definitely be considered.

 

1.  So yes, naked in the school swimming pool would be illegal.

 

2.  Just kids swimming in the school swimming pool while wearing their (really erotic, if you ask me) school swimsuits then it's fine.

 

3.  If they start undressing afterwards then you're in trouble again.

 

It is a difficult subject and one that I am not taking sides on. I don't slate the UK for doing this (although 2 year wait for 6 month sentence  just shows how pathetic the justice system is) as it definitely could be considered borderline pedophilia. I am not saying that everyone who watches it is a pedophile but could it still be used as legal child porn? Maybe.

[supaginge]

tbh im sure this illegal content is more of the line of 18+ pictures you can find around the net with ease if you know how, not anything you would get in anime as that is broadcasted TV

[Volbet]

Okay as someone who never watches any anime or manga or whatever else is out there, I can see both sides of the story. While I do agree with some of the comments in this thread ("it is only a cartoon/not real"), I ask, where do you draw the line? Lets go way overboard for a second. Would you agree with a video game that is clearly about pedophilia? We all know it isn't real a person being abused but the intention is still very much there. So now take it back a notch. What about videos that hint at pedophilia? And by the sounds of it, some of these videos do hint quite strongly at pedophilia. Lawlz posted three scenarios and I think all three hint towards pedophilia and two can definitely be considered.

 

 

It is a difficult subject and one that I am not taking sides on. I don't slate the UK for doing this (although 2 year wait for 6 month sentence  just shows how pathetic the justice system is)

I would see a game about pedophila, as I see a game that depicts graphic violence. There is a big gap between fantasy and reality, and most players will be able to make this distinction. 

Just becuase I can go on a murder spree in GTA, it doesn't mean that I will do it in real life. I know violence is wrong and I certainly dont like violence in real life. But that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy being violent in a video game

It's a fantasy that I can live out. 

 

Back when I was younger I played RapeLay (It's exactly what you think), but that doesn't mean that I am going to be a stalker/rapist.

 

Aslong as no people are harmed during the production of a media, I can't see it as wrong. A cartoon or character in a video game doesn't have feeling, and can't be violeted the way a human can. 

Cartoons don't have autonomy, and are simply the product of a creator.

 

As I said in my first post in this topic, law enforcemnt and the law makers are probably worried that these kinds of images can lead to real sexual assaults on children.

But I haven't seen any studies that points to that conclusion. And untill there is such a study, arrests like the one found in the OP, are unfounded.  

[smjpl]

This whole case is a great example of human mentality based on a moral standpoint.

 

 

a subjective moral standpoint that is. some of the greatest societies had no problem with "underage" relationships. and a vast majority of men will prefer 14 year old girls if they are given a test where they think they are all 18+

 

link to come

i cant find the exact link to that. but i remember there was a research where men were presented with a series of females, (told they were aged 18-65). the majority of men picked the 14 year old girl as the most attractive to them.

 

there was apparently also a film made about this

 

While I can see your point that it is a moral standpoint that men should not be with children, there is slightly more to it. Yes other societies permitted men to be with children but they didn't allow women (children) to make their own choice. So assuming you do believe in equal rights for men and women, do you honestly believe that 14 year old child can make a calculated decision to have sex for themselves? Whether men and children can be together is a moral standpoint, but I don't believe children are qualified to make that decision and therefore it should be banned on that fact alone. You look at most the young people on this forum. They can't make up their mind on what university course they should take and they are 17-20 years old. Now how do you expect a 14 year old to make a conscious decision to have sex with an old man?

 

Although if it is animated content only? I don't know. (Personally I still don't agree with it)

[Sklo]

The ban on those kind of material is not just for real pictures being taken, it is about the meaning of them. For example here in Austria(and Germany) the usage of swastikas is forbidden by law. It doesn't matter if it is drawn or somebody took a picture of it. Thats how I see this case too, he deserves the sentence. For the extra time he will at least be replenished a bit. 

[smjpl]

I would see a game about pedophila, as I see a game that depicts graphic violence. There is a big gap between fantasy and reality, and most players will be able to make this distinction. 

Just becuase I can go on a murder spree in GTA, it doesn't mean that I will do it in real life. I know violence is wrong and I certainly dont like violence in real life. But that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy being violent in a video game

It's a fantasy that I can live out. 

 

Back when I was younger I played RapeLay (It's exactly what you think), but that doesn't mean that I am going to be a stalker/rapist.

 

Aslong as no peiople are harmed during the production of a media, I can't see it as wrong. A cartoon or character in a video game doesn't have feeling, and can't be violeted the way a human can. 

Cartoons don'tt have autonomy, and are simply the product of a creator.

 

As I said in my first post in this topic, law enforcemnt and the law makers are probably worried that these kinds of images can lead to real sexual assaults on children.

But I haven't seen any studies that ponits to that conclusion. And untill there is such a study, arrests like the one found in the OP, are unfounded.  

 

I understand that nobody is actually harmed but I don't believe I should be freely able to buy a game where I can drive around and pick up children and then do... the sorts of things that I feel wrong to even say by typing them out.

[Yoinkerman]

Assuming you're right, those would not be covered under the same laws this poor guy was charged with. They would be covered under the same laws that movies and TV shows and video games are covered under.

Because you think it's icky isn't a very good legal grounding.

I understand that nobody is actually harmed but I don't believe I should be freely able to buy a game where I can drive around and pick up children and then do... the sorts of things that I feel wrong to even say by typing them out.

[Fred Castellum]

While I can see your point that it is a moral standpoint that men should not be with children, there is slightly more to it. Yes other societies permitted men to be with children but they didn't allow women (children) to make their own choice. So assuming you do believe in equal rights for men and women, do you honestly believe that 14 year old child can make a calculated decision to have sex for themselves? Whether men and children can be together is a moral standpoint, but I don't believe children are qualified to make that decision and therefore it should be banned on that fact alone. You look at most the young people on this forum. They can't make up their mind on what university course they should take and they are 17-20 years old. Now how do you expect a 14 year old to make a conscious decision to have sex with an old man?

Although if it is animated content only? I don't know. (Personally I still don't agree with it)

I never gave my my personal opinion on the topic. The moral standpoint I'm talking about is more to do with modern viewpoints than anything.

It comes at no surprise that children can't always make the best decisions due to lack of knowledge or experience. However on this topic, there was no victims unless you count the person prosecuted.

[Volbet]

I understand that nobody is actually harmed but I don't believe I should be freely able to buy a game where I can drive around and pick up children and then do... the sorts of things that I feel wrong to even say by typing them out.

i don't want to do that either, but neither do want to watch people torture themself for sexual arousal.

Just becuase I don't want watch something, it doesn't mean that it should be illegal. People should be able to do whatever they want, as long as they don't harm other people. 

My personal preference shouldn't effect others. I have the right not to buy the media that I don't want to watch. 

[LukaP]

While I can see your point that it is a moral standpoint that men should not be with children, there is slightly more to it. Yes other societies permitted men to be with children but they didn't allow women (children) to make their own choice. So assuming you do believe in equal rights for men and women, do you honestly believe that 14 year old child can make a calculated decision to have sex for themselves? Whether men and children can be together is a moral standpoint, but I don't believe children are qualified to make that decision and therefore it should be banned on that fact alone. You look at most the young people on this forum. They can't make up their mind on what university course they should take and they are 17-20 years old. Now how do you expect a 14 year old to make a conscious decision to have sex with an old man?

 

Although if it is animated content only? I don't know. (Personally I still don't agree with it)

its animated only.

 

on the decisionmaking thing. 14 y/os are already making that decision. and maybe (just maybe) if they decide to start that early, it would be better if done with someone responsible. idk.

[Trik'Stari]

[smjpl]

Okay I kinda feel this topic could be borderline as there are kids on this forum. So feel free to delete if going to far.

 

@LukaP @Volbet (not Volbert) @MyInnerFred @Yoinkerman

 

This is a really difficult topic as it really makes us look at modern society. Here is the two main factors I see.

 

1.  By allowing this are we condoning this sort of thinking (that it is okay to have sex with children)?

 

2.  Should we use purely animated child porn to cater to the needs of pedophiles? If you are sexually attracted to children, are you any different than if you are attracted to the opposite sex or to the same sex? We obviously can't allow adults have sex with children as children cannot make the decision for themselves (well at least IMO this is obvious) but are these people bad people? Could this be a form of catering to those people to release their desires without actually harming children? I don't believe every person who has sexual feelings for kids wants to hurt children. Would this help them release sexual tension and possibly prevent hurting kids?

 

Should we be okay (as a society) with sexual to attraction to children? (granted that no child is abused)

 

There have been some good points made and this certainly isn't a straight forward topic. 

[LAwLz]

While I do agree with some of the comments in this thread ("it is only a cartoon/not real"), I ask, where do you draw the line?

I draw the line at "a real human child was involved". That's a very clear line and I think most people will agree. I have the exact same view about all media including games.

 

Lets go way overboard for a second. Would you agree with a video game that is clearly about pedophilia? We all know it isn't real a person being abused but the intention is still very much there. So now take it back a notch. What about videos that hint at pedophilia? And by the sounds of it, some of these videos do hint quite strongly at pedophilia. Lawlz posted three scenarios and I think all three hint towards pedophilia and two can definitely be considered.

But that's like saying violent video games has the intention of hurting people. There is no a single peer reviewed study which links violent games to violence in the real world, lolis to real child abuse or sexism in games to sexism in the real world.

Every single study that has been made on the subjects and have been peer reviewed (to check for bias) has came out saying "we have not found any relation between the two". If one (or preferably several) such studies comes out then I will be all for a ban (even though I would lose something I enjoy it would be for the greater good). However, this is a victimless crime and all the science points towards it being completely harmless. It doesn't help anyone by making it illegal, it just creates more criminals.

Also, don't mock me for my school swimsuit fetish. There are plenty of busty, grown up women in anime who wears them too.

 

It is a difficult subject and one that I am not taking sides on. I don't slate the UK for doing this (although 2 year wait for 6 month sentence  just shows how pathetic the justice system is) as it definitely could be considered borderline pedophilia. I am not saying that everyone who watches it is a pedophile but could it still be used as legal child porn? Maybe.

Again, that's like saying fictional murder could be used as real murder. People do separate between fiction and reality, otherwise all kinds of media would be immoral.

 

 

its animated only.

 

on the decisionmaking thing. 14 y/os are already making that decision. and maybe (just maybe) if they decide to start that early, it would be better if done with someone responsible. idk.

Can we please stick to anime? The topic is really getting into some murky water now.

[LukaP]

Okay I kinda feel this topic could be borderline as there are kids on this forum. So feel free to delete if going to far.

 

@LukaP @Volbet (not Volbert) @MyInnerFred @Yoinkerman

 

This is a really difficult topic as it really makes us look at modern society. Here is the two main factors I see.

 

1.  By allowing this are we condoning this sort of thinking (that it is okay to have sex with children)?

 

2.  Should we use purely animated child porn to cater to the needs of pedophiles? If you are sexually attracted to children, are you any different than if you are attracted to the opposite sex or to the same sex? We obviously can't allow adults have sex with children as children cannot make the decision for themselves (well at least IMO this is obvious) but are these people bad people? Could this be a form of catering to those people to release their desires without actually harming children? I don't believe every person who has sexual feelings for kids wants to hurt children. Would this help them release sexual tension and possibly prevent hurting kids?

 

Should we be okay (as a society) with sexual to attraction to children? (granted that no child is abused)

 

There have been some good points made and this certainly isn't a straight forward topic. 

I dont exactly understand the first question, since any answer i give contradicts itself in my head.

 

on the second point. this is a very good point. i mean this is a sexual orientation just like hetero, homo, pan, etc... so why are they treated differently. i mean there are freaks of society in every group (arguably being a straight rapist is just as bad if not worse than an acting pedophile). so why should an entire orientation be stereotyped into these freaks? and why arent hetero people then all marked as rapists?

again i think that the decision making should be left to the teenager involved, since by 14-15 (atleast in my experience) we were quite mature and could make decisions that affected our entire lives.

 

 

i agree on the point that maybe this shouldnt be read by some people here (mainly the ones under 14) but then again, it would be great, getting an insight from a younger generation.

[LukaP]

 

Can we please stick to anime? The topic is really getting into some murky water now.

oh yeah, im only talking anime, when it comes to films

[smjpl]

 

 

But that's like saying violent video games has the intention of hurting people. There is no a single peer reviewed study which links violent games to violence in the real world, lolis to real child abuse or sexism in games to sexism in the real world.

Every single study that has been made on the subjects and have been peer reviewed (to check for bias) has came out saying "we have not found any relation between the two". If one (or preferably several) such studies comes out then I will be all for a ban (even though I would lose something I enjoy it would be for the greater good). However, this is a victimless crime and all the science points towards it being completely harmless. It doesn't help anyone by making it illegal, it just creates more criminals.

Also, don't mock me for my school swimsuit fetish. There are plenty of busty, grown up women in anime who wears them too.

 

Again, that's like saying fictional murder could be used as real murder. People do separate between fiction and reality, otherwise all kinds of media would be immoral.

 

 

Can we please stick to anime? The topic is really getting into some murky water now.

 

There is one difference here about violent video games. We all think it is cool to steal nice cars, shoot bad people, punch a hooker in the face and blow shit up. We just know it is wrong so we don't do it. Who here thinks it is cool to rape kids? But I do agree with you that there is no correlation between thinking and actually doing.

 

Edit: But again this comes back to are other people wrong for thinking it is cool which is undecidable.

[Volbet]

Okay I kinda feel this topic could be borderline as there are kids on this forum. So feel free to delete if going to far.

 

@LukaP @Volbet (not Volbert) @MyInnerFred @Yoinkerman

 

This is a really difficult topic as it really makes us look at modern society. Here is the two main factors I see.

 

One, by allowing this are we condoning this sort of thinking (that it is okay to have sex with children)?

 

Two, should we use purely animated child porn to cater to the needs of pedophiles? If you are sexually attracted to children, are you any different than if you are attracted to the opposite sex or to the same sex? We obviously can't allow adults have sex with children as children cannot make the decision for themselves (well at least IMO this is obvious) but are these people bad people? Could this be a form of catering to those people to release their desires without actually harming children? I don't believe every person who has sexual feelings for kids wants to hurt children. Would this help them release sexual tension and possibly prevent hurting kids?

 

Should we be okay (as a society) with sexual to attraction to children? (granted that no child is abused)

 

There have been some good points made and this certainly isn't a straight forward topic. 

These are good questions.

No, I don't think so. Again there is a difference between fantasy and reality. Allowing drawings of children in sexual situations ≠ condoning raping children. And if it's only thinking, we can't really do anything about it. Thought crimes shouldn't be punishable.

 

This is a difficult question to answer. Should we feed a habit to protect other people? Since you asked me, yes we should.  if I can stop one child from being raped, by having the rapist look at a drawn image, I will. 

The analogi I can draw is to the debate about if we should give heroin addicts in Denmark, free heorin. It would stop them from doing a lot of crime, but it would also feed their drug habbit. 

I for one, is for giving them heroin, since it will keep them from robbing people on the street and breaking into homes.

The question about pedophilia being a sexual oritentation is a bit mal formed. Pedophila is usually a sexual prefrence rather than an orientation.  

Whether or not we should accept sexual attration to children is a deeper moral question than I can go into. As long as it's only thought, I can't see a problem with it. 

[IdortMasterRace]

It's a troll. Ignore it.

 

It was probably just a harmless joke. Me and my friends make that all

 

I ask, where do you draw the line? Lets go way overboard for a second. Would you agree with a video game that is clearly about pedophilia? We all know it isn't real a person being abused but the intention is still very much there. So now take it back a notch. What about videos that hint at pedophilia? And by the sounds of it, some of these videos do hint quite strongly at pedophilia.

 

That's fine. I don't have to watch it, you don't have to watch it, etc. and again, it's just a cartoon.

 

I don't slate the UK for doing this as it definitely could be considered borderline pedophilia.

 

Pedophilia isn't illegal.

[Fred Castellum]

Okay I kinda feel this topic could be borderline as there are kids on this forum. So feel free to delete if going to far.

@LukaP @Volbet (not Volbert) @MyInnerFred @Yoinkerman

This is a really difficult topic as it really makes us look at modern society. Here is the two main factors I see.

1. By allowing this are we condoning this sort of thinking (that it is okay to have sex with children)?

2. Should we use purely animated child porn to cater to the needs of pedophiles? If you are sexually attracted to children, are you any different than if you are attracted to the opposite sex or to the same sex? We obviously can't allow adults have sex with children as children cannot make the decision for themselves (well at least IMO this is obvious) but are these people bad people? Could this be a form of catering to those people to release their desires without actually harming children? I don't believe every person who has sexual feelings for kids wants to hurt children. Would this help them release sexual tension and possibly prevent hurting kids?

Should we be okay (as a society) with sexual to attraction to children? (granted that no child is abused)

There have been some good points made and this certainly isn't a straight forward topic.

Cant mention people very well on taptalk but its nice to know there are quite a few ltt members who actually put thought into posts on such topics.

From what I heard from questionable people(lol you meet some strange people in the anime community at times), sometimes this attraction is only linked to animated or drawn images and is a turn off in real life.

Lots of factors to examine, and take into account.

Personally I think it should be legal if it deters the actual crime. If it satisfies actual pedophiles and is enough to keep them from committing the crime then give them as much of this stuff as they want!