Cloud III Wireless vs DT 770 pro

[bara9880]

I'm trying to decide between getting a good gaming headset vs a quality studio grade one , I've read lots of reviews and this what it came down to : 

 

- pros for hyperx : pretty good built in mic , wireless,  supports DTS and probably has better sound positioning , will be used without a AMP/DAC

 

- Pros for Beyerdynamic : Detachable cabel , probably a better sounding headset in terms of sound quality (better bass , more neutral sounding ) , maybe a better cup material (velvet)? 

 

- they are both closed back which is probably what I need to Block the noisy laptop fans + noise coming from outside

 

- the mic isn't a must have but is a really nice + , as I could use my laptop's built in mic  

 

What's really making me hesitant is that a lot of reviews talk about the DT 770 having a firmer grip on the head for a better seal , but that makes them get warmer even in a relatively short time ( most people say an hour ) lots of reviews say they are perfect for short bursty usage  , while the hyperx ones are supposedly more comfortable for long gaming sessions 

 

There's also the ongoing problem with hyperx firmware ( check the pinned post in the subreddit ) that's bricking the headsets when they connect to pc and have the ngenuity software open

[Motifator]

I don't know all about headphones, but I can give you safe advice on ditching that gamer headset and going with a dedicated mic.

In that case, you get to open a whole lot of other, much better options. If you're worried about your head getting warmed up, I might suggest the Sennheiser HD 25 Light. A lot of DJs swear by it from what I've seen. In general.

HyperX Ngenuity is just bad btw.

[Tigerleon]

15 minutes ago, bara9880 said:

I'm trying to decide between getting a good gaming headset vs a quality studio grade one , I've read lots of reviews and this what it came down to : 

 

- pros for hyperx : pretty good built in mic , wireless,  supports DTS and probably has better sound positioning , will be used without a AMP/DAC

 

- Pros for Beyerdynamic : Detachable cabel , probably a better sounding headset in terms of sound quality (better bass , more neutral sounding ) , maybe a better cup material (velvet)? 

 

- they are both closed back which is probably what I need to Block the noisy laptop fans + noise coming from outside

 

- the mic isn't a must have but is a really nice + , as I could use my laptop's built in mic  

 

What's really making me hesitant is that a lot of reviews talk about the DT 770 having a firmer grip on the head for a better seal , but that makes them get warmer even in a relatively short time ( most people say an hour ) lots of reviews say they are perfect for short bursty usage  , while the hyperx ones are supposedly more comfortable for long gaming sessions 

 

There's also the ongoing problem with hyperx firmware ( check the pinned post in the subreddit ) that's bricking the headsets when they connect to pc and have the ngenuity software open

I'd say 770 pro 80ohm or 250ohm if you have a good amp/DAC chip in your laptop. I'd recommend either these or K371 from AKG. A headphone DAC/amp paired with those are gonna make them louder and more fuller sounding if you don't have a decent enough built-in audio. You could also get an external USB or 3.5mm mic later if you need it for better quality. Then you could pair a mic as well as the headphones with the desired amp that supports a mic as well.

 

Edit: You might get some interference as well with the laptops audio because they usually have it.

[Tigerleon]

17 minutes ago, bara9880 said:

supports DTS and probably has better sound positioning

Btw, this is just marketing BS and you will not get better sound positioning because that relies heavily on the headphones themselves and the soundcard. With EQ you can get better sound positional cues for footsteps gunfire etc because of those boosted frequencies. Virtual surround sound more often than not degrade sound quality and in return sound directionality. I can say from experience with testing Dolby Atmos, DTS headphone X, and my soundcards "surround" that my soundcard has by far the best "non-echoey" effects and less quality loss. It is not better but it is a different experience for movies or maybe some music but doesn't sound necessarily good for anything really.

[Motifator]

Ever since hardware decoding died with the games like EAX in F.E.A.R, the bonuses of directional audio on sound card level have been murdered. Putting sound cards in the 6 feet hole. All this happened years ago. Most decent onboard solutions carry on.

With that said, a pair of good headphones would work either way.

Just make sure they're comfortable. From what it sounds like, this is something you're concerned about. The 770's are not the best in that sense if you insist on putting them on for countless hours.

[Tigerleon]

5 minutes ago, Motifator said:

The 770's are not the best in that sense if you insist on putting them on for countless hours

They are if you break them in a bit clamp wise. Audio wise they aren't uncomfortable?

 

5 minutes ago, Motifator said:

All this happened years ago. Most decent onboard solutions carry on.

Nope. Tell that to my absolute newest motherboard audio that can barely power my Tygr 300R that are 30 something ohm and not that low sens properly at a loud volume

 

[Motifator]

4 minutes ago, Tigerleon said:

They are if you break them in a bit clamp wise. Audio wise they aren't uncomfortable?

 

Nope. Tell that to my absolute newest motherboard audio that can barely power my Tygr 300R that are 30 something ohm and not that low sens properly at a loud volume

 

Not audio wise but carrying on the head wise from what I gather, there are more comfortable cans.

I wasn't talking about onboard not being able to power cans themselves, I was more of referring to positional stereo. A lot of onboard do a fine job at it.

[Tigerleon]

Just now, Motifator said:

Not audio wise but carrying on the head wise from what I gather, there are more comfortable cans.

I wasn't talking about onboard not being able to power cans themselves, I was more of referring to positional stereo. A lot of onboard do a fine job at it.

Ah, alright. Yeah, they can be a bit uncomfortable after some hours but a 5 min break sometimes will relieve it. They clamp quite a bit tho.

[Tigerleon]

3 minutes ago, Motifator said:

I wasn't talking about onboard not being able to power cans themselves, I was more of referring to positional stereo. A lot of onboard do a fine job at it.

True. However, having poor amplification for some headphones or a bad implementation can lead to poor detail retrieval as well which leads to bad directional cues. In this case, I assume his laptop doesn't have the absolute best built-in sound and that's pretty much why I mentioned it.

Edit: I am aware of built in sound in motherboards are good for what you get but some can be worse than others depending on quality or what model.

[Cocococo]

23 minutes ago, bara9880 said:

I'm trying to decide between getting a good gaming headset vs a quality studio grade one , I've read lots of reviews and this what it came down to : 

 

- pros for hyperx : pretty good built in mic , wireless,  supports DTS and probably has better sound positioning , will be used without a AMP/DAC

 

- Pros for Beyerdynamic : Detachable cabel , probably a better sounding headset in terms of sound quality (better bass , more neutral sounding ) , maybe a better cup material (velvet)? 

 

- they are both closed back which is probably what I need to Block the noisy laptop fans + noise coming from outside

 

- the mic isn't a must have but is a really nice + , as I could use my laptop's built in mic  

 

What's really making me hesitant is that a lot of reviews talk about the DT 770 having a firmer grip on the head for a better seal , but that makes them get warmer even in a relatively short time ( most people say an hour ) lots of reviews say they are perfect for short bursty usage  , while the hyperx ones are supposedly more comfortable for long gaming sessions 

 

There's also the ongoing problem with hyperx firmware ( check the pinned post in the subreddit ) that's bricking the headsets when they connect to pc and have the ngenuity software open

HyperX i'm not gonna recommend anymore, a faulty update made so many headsets completely useless for a bit over a week. DTS and other supported software is nowhere near as good as a well designed headphone, mic is no big deal, you can get inline mic's that sound just as good for regular closed back headphones, if you really want wireless then fair enough it's the best wireless headset under Audeze Maxwell prices (to my knowledge at least) AMP/DAC's are a solved problem that you can spend very low amounts of money on and get a fantastic experience.

 

Beyerdynamic DT770's might have been good in the early 2000's but in todays market they are entirely obsolete, if you want great closed back headphones for gaming the AKG K361 and K371 have a much wider soundstage, much more precise imaging and a more neutral sound (not true neutral but they're tuned almost exactly to Harman targets) that's great for immersive play and can help in more competitive games if their sound design is good enough to let you hear the difference. If you want more thumpy bass for gunfire and explosions then Shure 840A are an easy pick, DT770 are bassy in the same way a Raycon earbud or early beats headphone is bassy, with super piercing treble to match (the frequency response graphs (FROM GOOD SOURCES)) are shaped like a U, you get very little detail in the midrange of sounds and that's super annoying for ambient moments in games) if a mic is that big a concern then i'd look at the Rode NTH-100, they're basically a slightly bassier K371 with an awesome boom mic you can plug in (get the 100M if this is the case, Rode ships the normal NTH-100 with no 3-pole cables, 3 poles on the jack means that a mic signal is carried) or you want spare earpads readily available (AKG are terrible for this, as much as i love the K371) then Shure have amazing customer service and Rode are also great with spare parts. 

 

For what you're wanting the DT770 is kind of a terrible fit, they aren't anywhere near neutral sounding (wherever you got that info is a terrible source and probably not worth any more of your attention) they don't have a detachable cable (it's why you see so many mod videos on giving DT770's a removable cable) earcup material is up to you, personally i prefer fabric earpads but DT770 clamp pretty hard so the pads wear out quite a lot quicker than the many better closed back headphones in it's price range.

 

For amplification i said it's a solved problem, if you're in the USA the Apple USB-C to 3.5mm dongle is unironically better than many DAC/AMP's that are 10x it's cost, if you're not in the US then the Abigail CX1993 is the one to buy. If you have an android phone and might want to use your headphones outside of your room get the Abigail, Apple dongle sucks on android, you get 60% of the max volume and the volume adjustment is pretty terrible, Abigail plays nicely with everything (don't worry about PC implementation, a USB-USBC converter works fine and doesn't impact audio quality

[Tigerleon]

2 minutes ago, Cocococo said:

For what you're wanting the DT770 is kind of a terrible fit, they aren't anywhere near neutral sounding (wherever you got that info is a terrible source and probably not worth any more of your attention) they don't have a detachable cable (it's why you see so many mod videos on giving DT770's a removable cable) earcup material is up to you, personally i prefer fabric earpads but DT770 clamp pretty hard so the pads wear out quite a lot quicker than the many better closed back headphones in it's price range.

You're giving the 770 pros a bit of a harsh description. I would say they are less worth their price that's all.

[Motifator]

Honestly with a laptop, you might have better luck buying a cheap but solid interface like a Presonus Studio 24C, then sticking it up to a fine mic. That way, you get the Universal Control so you have the means to fine tune the compression, etc. It'd take you to a whole different level than just sticking any random headphone + modmic solution to your PC. You can get some good cans and attach them to the interface too... win-win.

[Cocococo]

5 minutes ago, Tigerleon said:

You're giving the 770 pros a bit of a harsh description. I would say they are less worth their price that's all.

770 have their uses, they're genuinely perfect for a recording studio, long thick cables are ideal for not getting crushed under office chair wheels or a poorly mounted drumkit, super durable so it's no big deal when artists drop them, the hard clamp forces help out immensely with isolation so each band member can better concentrate on what they're hearing and the fixed cable makes them nearly impossible to accidentally take home. For the original posters wants and needs they aren't a good pick

[Tigerleon]

18 minutes ago, Cocococo said:

770 have their uses, they're genuinely perfect for a recording studio, long thick cables are ideal for not getting crushed under office chair wheels or a poorly mounted drumkit, super durable so it's no big deal when artists drop them, the hard clamp forces help out immensely with isolation so each band member can better concentrate on what they're hearing and the fixed cable makes them nearly impossible to accidentally take home. For the original posters wants and needs they aren't a good pick

The coiled cable for me is a shame (250ohm variant). I hate it honestly. So fckn heavy.

[saintlouisbagels]

3 hours ago, Cocococo said:

if you want great closed back headphones for gaming the AKG K361 and K371 have a much wider soundstage, much more precise imaging and a more neutral sound

If you want more thumpy bass for gunfire and explosions then Shure 840A are an easy pick

But would you say the DT770 Pro slots nicely in-between the these 3 options though? Jack of all trades, master of none situation?

Wider soundstage than Shure 840a, but not as wide as the K361/K371, and better bass than K361/K371 but not as bassy as Shure 840A?

 

I'm a DT 770 Pro lover mostly as a response to being so disgusted that so many people back in the early 2010's kept recommending the ATH-M50 as the best headphones when they were the worst headphones I ever listened to. Also I have a massive head with big ears, so the velour earcups are very comfy and the spacious insides don't touch my ears.

 

I have not tried any of those 3 options you mentioned so I'll never know how much worse the DT770 is. I've entirely switched to IEMs. But I will still recommend the 770's simply because they're still great headphones, even if they may be in bottom-tier of great headphones.

[Cocococo]

3 hours ago, saintlouisbagels said:

But would you say the DT770 Pro slots nicely in-between the these 3 options though? Jack of all trades, master of none situation?

Wider soundstage than Shure 840a, but not as wide as the K361/K371, and better bass than K361/K371 but not as bassy as Shure 840A?

 

I'm a DT 770 Pro lover mostly as a response to being so disgusted that so many people back in the early 2010's kept recommending the ATH-M50 as the best headphones when they were the worst headphones I ever listened to. Also I have a massive head with big ears, so the velour earcups are very comfy and the spacious insides don't touch my ears.

 

I have not tried any of those 3 options you mentioned so I'll never know how much worse the DT770 is. I've entirely switched to IEMs. But I will still recommend the 770's simply because they're still great headphones, even if they may be in bottom-tier of great headphones.

Erm... not at all, 840A are wider and more detailed than the 770, have less overall bass (technically the 840A has roughly equal sub-bass* but DT770 has extremely overblown upper bass that screws the lower mid-range of music) DT770 aren't even worth considering next to K361 and K371 though, those two headphones are doing some heavy lifting for AKG's reputation in hardcore audio circles.

If you wanted to point at a jack of all trades i'd say the Shure 440A is it, generally the cheapest of the good sub-Maxwell priced closed backs and more of a middle ground between 840A, NTH-100, K361 and K371. I do agree that DT770's are preferable to M50x's but then i find M40x's a much nicer listening experience than the 770's (still fragile lol, it's why i don't really recc them despite being tuned somewhat competently) 

 

IEM's are the way to go these days, it's so hard to keep on top of the market that i just default to whatever Crinacle and his community says is good, my ears are a bit of a weird shape so i don't often get IEM's that fit me really nicely, hence all the opinions i have on closed back headphones (amazon's returns department has gotta hate me lmao) 

 

*According to graphs i've seen of original 840, but when i've A-B swapped original 840 and 840A there is a noticeable difference in sound, namely sub and mid bass being louder on the A model along with some recordings i'm very familiar with (live recorded orchestra in particular) sounding a bit different with Tuba and Trombone in particular, even when both headphones are on brand new earpads, idk it could just be the age of the base 840's but there also isn't many measurements of A model Shure's from trustworthy sources/ rigs to base my claims of, still way less bassy than DT770 though.

[bara9880]

11 hours ago, Motifator said:

I don't know all about headphones, but I can give you safe advice on ditching that gamer headset and going with a dedicated mic.

In that case, you get to open a whole lot of other, much better options. If you're worried about your head getting warmed up, I might suggest the Sennheiser HD 25 Light. A lot of DJs swear by it from what I've seen. In general.

HyperX Ngenuity is just bad btw.

Sennheiser are very hard to come by in the country I'm in , and you can't really order online it's a hassle , these are just some of the options that found while scrolling local stores like this one : 

 

https://ssjstoredz.com/collections/casques?filter.v.availability=1&filter.v.price.gte=&filter.v.price.lte=&sort_by=price-descending

 

and this one is like eBay,  there are some dt 770 available and i belive a sennheiser hd 569 :

 

https://www.ouedkniss.com/s/1?keywords=dt-770

[bara9880]

11 hours ago, Tigerleon said:

Btw, this is just marketing BS and you will not get better sound positioning because that relies heavily on the headphones themselves and the soundcard. With EQ you can get better sound positional cues for footsteps gunfire etc because of those boosted frequencies. Virtual surround sound more often than not degrade sound quality and in return sound directionality. I can say from experience with testing Dolby Atmos, DTS headphone X, and my soundcards "surround" that my soundcard has by far the best "non-echoey" effects and less quality loss. It is not better but it is a different experience for movies or maybe some music but doesn't sound necessarily good for anything really.

So for gaming you don't suggest having any of these things enabled ? , for something like CS , APEX , COD, valorant , and single player / story games 

[bara9880]

11 hours ago, Tigerleon said:

True. However, having poor amplification for some headphones or a bad implementation can lead to poor detail retrieval as well which leads to bad directional cues. In this case, I assume his laptop doesn't have the absolute best built-in sound and that's pretty much why I mentioned it.

Edit: I am aware of built in sound in motherboards are good for what you get but some can be worse than others depending on quality or what model.

The laptop is a HP pavilion gaming 15-ec1073dx released in 2020, I believe it should be okay for 32ohms right ? 

[bara9880]

Are any of these any good ? 

 

https://renohdz.com/collections/casque-studio?sort_field=price&sort_order=desc

[Cocococo]

1 hour ago, bara9880 said:

Are any of these any good ? 

 

https://renohdz.com/collections/casque-studio?sort_field=price&sort_order=desc

Shure 840 and Rode NTH-100 are very good closed headphones, you will need to buy a separate microphone if you want to voice chat in games, i'd avoid the DT770's though. They don't match your desires very well

[bara9880]

10 minutes ago, Cocococo said:

Shure 840 and Rode NTH-100 are very good closed headphones, you will need to buy a separate microphone if you want to voice chat in games, i'd avoid the DT770's though. They don't match your desires very well

I've compared the two,  and almost every site or video I've looked into says that the DT 770 are way better than the nth-100 in most of the aspects 

[saintlouisbagels]

43 minutes ago, bara9880 said:

I've compared the two,  and almost every site or video I've looked into says that the DT 770 are way better than the nth-100 in most of the aspects 

Are those sites AI-generated and comparing just specification? Because that is worthless when it comes to audio.

[bara9880]

28 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

Are those sites AI-generated and comparing just specification? Because that is worthless when it comes 

Edit : correction I've looked at this video ( ending has the summary ) https://youtu.be/Nnk7ujbgOzs

[bara9880]

Just now, bara9880 said:

I've looked at rtings.com , https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/compare/beyerdynamic-dt-770-pro-vs-akg-k371/440/1671#:~:text=Our Verdict&text=The Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO,prone to inconsistencies among users.