Under 14? No social media for you!

[Donut417]

3 hours ago, SolarNova said:

wasn't that actually about common decency and re-confirmation of what is and is not appropriate in schools for young children along the lines of pornography.

Who decides what common decency is? That definition can change person to person, based on moral, ethics and religion.

[BrandonTech.05]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

Who decides what common decency is? That definition can change person to person, based on moral, ethics and religion.

You've just described the issue with every single legal system in the world. 

[Kisai]

On 3/29/2024 at 9:23 PM, Brooksie359 said:

Yeah I don't see your point. It's just ID verification not that you would have your ID publicly tied to the social media account that anyone could see. 

Prove you are over the age of 14 right now. How would you do it. You certainly aren't going to show your state ID/DL to rando's on a forum. Yet if some sites start requiring this, then people will get mislead into posting their ID's publicly, and then those ID's get used to "authorize" kids elsewhere.

 

All a kid will do is search "free drivers license" or something on the internet, and they've jumped over that hurdle. 

https://haveibeenpwned.com/

Look up any of your emails. My email has been , oh pwnd "10 times". 4 of these were  in the last 5 years.

 

Now imagine what will happen when a site that requires your ID to be verified gets pwn'd. Now all that information is out there and verification is absolutely worthless.

 

[Brooksie359]

4 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Prove you are over the age of 14 right now. How would you do it. You certainly aren't going to show your state ID/DL to rando's on a forum. Yet if some sites start requiring this, then people will get mislead into posting their ID's publicly, and then those ID's get used to "authorize" kids elsewhere.

 

All a kid will do is search "free drivers license" or something on the internet, and they've jumped over that hurdle. 

https://haveibeenpwned.com/

Look up any of your emails. My email has been , oh pwnd "10 times". 4 of these were  in the last 5 years.

 

Now imagine what will happen when a site that requires your ID to be verified gets pwn'd. Now all that information is out there and verification is absolutely worthless.

 

Honestly it would be fine if this verification only was required for social media over a certain size because the real issue is big social media websites. Small forums aren't what's really having a huge negative impact on kids. 

[Donut417]

45 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Honestly it would be fine if this verification only was required for social media over a certain size because the real issue is big social media websites. Small forums aren't what's really having a huge negative impact on kids. 

But how would you verify the ID is genuine and that it belongs to that person?

[BrandonTech.05]

3 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

But how would you verify the ID is genuine and that it belongs to that person?

I dont think they really can unless the government creates a system for them to actually verify. 

I've seen implementations that require you to take a picture of you and the ID. But even then it can be faked. I dont think there is a real way to solve this.

[Donut417]

Just now, BrandonTech.05 said:

I dont think they really can unless the government creates a system for them to actually verify. 

I've seen implementations that require you to take a picture of you and the ID. But even then it can be faked. I dont think there is a real way to solve this.

Well in the case of the US, you would need 50 individual states to agree to have a system, because we dont have a national ID system. Thats never going to happen, the states agreeing or a national ID system.

[Bitter]

10 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Well in the case of the US, you would need 50 individual states to agree to have a system, because we dont have a national ID system. Thats never going to happen, the states agreeing or a national ID system.

'Cause that's big gubment interfering with their freedom and that ain't right. I mean it's right if you know it's just for ahem those people but like not for me ya know.

[Brooksie359]

2 hours ago, Donut417 said:

But how would you verify the ID is genuine and that it belongs to that person?

You just need to make it hard enough. Also just having it restricted allows them to ban when people are found out for violation and you can do something about the social media usage. Really you are more so trying to dissuade the use rather than make it impossible. I mean you need to be 21 to drink but really determined kids still figure out ways around that too but I wouldn't say we should just get rid of the restriction. 

[Donut417]

Just now, Brooksie359 said:

You just need to make it hard enough. Also just having it restricted allows them to ban when people are found out for violation and you can do something about the social media usage. Really you are more so trying to dissuade the use rather than make it impossible. I mean you need to be 21 to drink but really determined kids still figure out ways around that too but I wouldn't say we should just get rid of the restriction. 

The difference is the clerk looks at a physical ID, and to a certain extent they are trained to look for anything out of place on said ID and the picture has to match the individual who is purchasing the alcohol. A Facebook employee is not going to show up at your house to verify that ID. So that means submitting an ID to Social Media is fucking meaningless.

[Brooksie359]

16 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The difference is the clerk looks at a physical ID, and to a certain extent they are trained to look for anything out of place on said ID and the picture has to match the individual who is purchasing the alcohol. A Facebook employee is not going to show up at your house to verify that ID. So that means submitting an ID to Social Media is fucking meaningless.

Alot of social media websites have photos already so it's not like they could simply use an ID that is totally different than what they look like. Also they figured out a way to do some sort of verification on dating apps to make sure you are who you say you are. Really I am not sure why you are so sure that there is no way that these companies could reasonably make it difficult for children to get on social media and more importantly ban those that do somehow get on but are later found out. 

[Donut417]

5 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

Really I am not sure why you are so sure that there is no way that these companies could reasonably make it difficult for children to get on social media and more importantly ban those that do somehow get on but are later found out. 

For the same reason why DRM and copy protection on DVD's and Blurays dont stop people from pirating. Anything done digitally can be faked for the most part. Fake ID's do exist. Like stated above there are no databases that these companies can check an ID against.

 

Furthermore people steal social media accounts. My uncle had his hacked. The dip shit hacker even changed the picture to himself. We had to get in to the account and delete the whole account. If they cant stop hackers for stealing accounts they cant stop kids from making accounts.

[Brooksie359]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

For the same reason why DRM and copy protection on DVD's and Blurays dont stop people from pirating. Anything done digitally can be faked for the most part. Fake ID's do exist. Like stated above there are no databases that these companies can check an ID against.

 

Furthermore people steal social media accounts. My uncle had his hacked. The dip shit hacker even changed the picture to himself. We had to get in to the account and delete the whole account. If they cant stop hackers for stealing accounts they cant stop kids from making accounts.

Like I said it's mostly about making it difficult not impossible. Maybe it was different when I was a kid but for the most part the ones who were on social media the most were girls that weren't the most tech literate. Just stopping them would already be doing alot especially because they are the ones who likely are negatively effected the most. 

[GoStormPlays]

On 3/31/2024 at 6:19 PM, Kisai said:

Prove you are over the age of 14 right now.

 

by going ten seconds without saying "skibidi" or "sigma"

 

 

[IkeaGnome]

On 3/31/2024 at 3:19 PM, Donut417 said:

Well in the case of the US, you would need 50 individual states to agree to have a system, because we dont have a national ID system. Thats never going to happen, the states agreeing or a national ID system.

Convenient time for RealID to be coming out for travel then yeah?

We do have a standard national ID system. 

Edited April 8 by IkeaGnome
Phone auto corrected convenient to continent.

[BrandonTech.05]

7 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

Continent time for RealID to be coming out for travel then yeah?

We do have a standard national ID system. 

Not everybody has real ID though. Though more and more states are requiring it for everybody so that could change as time goes on. Plus, in may of 2025 you must have it to board domestic flights in the US.

Still, I literally do not think there is any good way to age verify without some other horrible side affect. Giving 3rd parties your ID is a terrible idea. Giving anybody your ID that isn't a government employee is a bad Idea. 

[StDragon]

1 minute ago, BrandonTech.05 said:

Giving 3rd parties your ID is a terrible idea. Giving anybody your ID that isn't a government employee is a bad Idea. 

100% agreed.

You should have a government ID, but it should never be used for tracking outside of finance and government.

And yes, I'm in favor of anonymity and pseudonyms. Once everything is tied to a RealID, it will take milliseconds for an AI to data-mine and profile you based on everything tied to it. In fact, over time it would probably know you better than you know yourself.

[Kisai]

7 minutes ago, StDragon said:

100% agreed.

You should have a government ID, but it should never be used for tracking outside of finance and government.

And yes, I'm in favor of anonymity and pseudonyms. Once everything is tied to a RealID, it will take milliseconds for an AI to data-mine and profile you based on everything tied to it. In fact, over time it would probably know you better than you know yourself.

Any national or international ID system should only be used for entry and exit of it's citizens. Not even tax payer id's (Eg SIN/TIN/SSN/etc) should be used for this purpose. Taxpayers should only be giving their tax numbers to their bank that they pay their taxes from and have their tax documents processed by.

 

If I go to my local bank and ask for all the tax statements, they should have it, and not have them sit in the mailbox where someone might intercept them.

 

I'm all for fully-digital tax, financial and id systems, but only if everyone globally agrees to the same systems, otherwise, all we end up with are fractured incompatible systems that result a fake-competition for who has the most influence. And it won't be the US winning that. The US is still ass-backwards when it comes to finances, and tax collection. 

 

If taxes worked properly, there would be no billionaires. The presence of billionaires, especially multi-billionaires, means the tax system is failing. That money should be reinvested in their businesses, not horded like a dragon.

 

[IkeaGnome]

41 minutes ago, BrandonTech.05 said:

Not everybody has real ID though. Though more and more states are requiring it for everybody so that could change as time goes on. Plus, in may of 2025 you must have it to board domestic flights in the US.

There must have been a misunderstanding. I said "coming out", not "out and completely mandated"...

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, IkeaGnome said:

Convenient time for RealID to be coming out for travel then yeah?

We do have a standard national ID system. 

Except the Feds tend to ask for you SSN to verify your ID. Further more “ real IDs” are not federally issued. So technically not a national ID. To me a national ID is issued to you when you’re born by Uncle Sam much like the SSN. It’s something that follows you thru life. 

[BrandonTech.05]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

Except the Feds tend to ask for you SSN to verify your ID. Further more “ real IDs” are not federally issued. So technically not a national ID. To me a national ID is issued to you when you’re born by Uncle Sam much like the SSN. It’s something that follows you thru life. 

If you have a real ID it is to be used for federal Identification thats what REAL ID is for. At least where I live in Michigan, if you don't have real ID it specifically says "not for federal identification"

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, BrandonTech.05 said:

If you have a real ID it is to be used for federal Identification thats what REAL ID is for. At least where I live in Michigan, if you don't have real ID it specifically says "not for federal identification"

The why do I have to supply my social security number to verify my ID? 

[IkeaGnome]

7 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

The why do I have to supply my social security number to verify my ID? 

You also have to do that when you apply for a passport. An internationally recognized ID.

Needing a SSN to apply verifies your identity, it doesn't take away from the ID you're getting.

It's almost like you have to prove who you are to use something to prove who you are...

 

If you didn't need the SSN to get a RealID, what's stopping me from getting an ID in your name?

[StDragon]

14 minutes ago, IkeaGnome said:

If you didn't need the SSN to get a RealID, what's stopping me from getting an ID in your name?

You're missing the entire point. The SSN was never meant to be a primary form of identification. But now it has. 

"The Social Security number (SSN) was created in 1936 for the sole purpose of tracking the earnings histories of U.S. workers, for use in determining Social Security benefit entitlement and computing benefit levels. Since then, use of the SSN has expanded substantially. Today the SSN may be the most commonly used numbering system in the United States. As of December 2008, the Social Security Administration (SSA) had issued over 450 million original SSNs, and nearly every legal resident of the United States had one. The SSN's very universality has led to its adoption throughout government and the private sector as a chief means of identifying and gathering information about an individual.

How did the SSN come to be, and why has it become an unofficial national identifier? This article explores the history and meaning of the SSN and the Social Security card..."

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v69n2/v69n2p55.html

[IkeaGnome]

11 minutes ago, StDragon said:

The SSN was never meant to be a primary form of identification. But now it has. 

11 minutes ago, StDragon said:

You're missing the entire point.

No, I'm not. 

11 minutes ago, StDragon said:

But now it has. 

 

11 minutes ago, StDragon said:

But now it has.

 

11 minutes ago, StDragon said:

But now it has. 

 

11 minutes ago, StDragon said:

The SSN's very universality has led to its adoption throughout government and the private sector as a chief means of identifying and gathering information about an individual.

 

11 minutes ago, StDragon said:

How did the SSN come to be, and why has it become an unofficial national identifier?

Want it repeated again?

The world evolves. It wasn't an identifier when it was introduced. It is used as one now.