Typical Apple Innovation…

[James]

At their Scary Fast event, apple announced not one but THREE new chips: the M3, M3 Pro, and M3 Max! They're fast, but what's scary? 8GB of RAM in the new base tier Macbook Pro!

 

 

[CyberneticTitan]

We're already seeing some changes in the core type ratios for these chips.

 

Base M2 Pro is 6P+4E whereas base M3 Pro is 5P+6E. Top M2 Pro is 8P+4E whereas top M3 Pro is 6P+6E. Combined with the reduction in memory bandwidth (200GB/s to 150GB/s) the benchmarks are going to be interesting.

[PDifolco]

16 minutes ago, CyberneticTitan said:

We're already seeing some changes in the core type ratios for these chips.

 

Base M2 Pro is 6P+4E whereas base M3 Pro is 5P+6E. Top M2 Pro is 8P+4E whereas top M3 Pro is 6P+6E. Combined with the reduction in memory bandwidth (200GB/s to 150GB/s) the benchmarks are going to be interesting.

They should then rather call them M3/2  

[HenrySalayne]

1 hour ago, James said:

4:37 - later don't need you impressive first

4:40 - not only are the peores and the ecores

4:43 - 30 and 50% faster than the M1

4:46 - respectively but they've improved the

should be

1 hour ago, James said:

4:37 - later don't need you impressive first

4:40 - not only are the peores and the ecores

4:43 - up to 30 and 50% faster than the M1

4:46 - respectively but they've improved the

[powertoys]

The Macbook Air M1 had 8 GB of RAM. It was released amidst a pandemic and a devastating semiconductor shortage, but for $999 and considering the other aspects of the machine and it's intended target audience it was pretty understandable - to this day it's still the best $700 laptop if you don't need Windows, fight me.

 

But this? $1600 for 8 GB of RAM? On a machine with the Pro moniker? When DRAM prices are at historic lows? Even if you don't need the 16 GBs of RAM you should get it anyways, because you are paying $1600. The only reason that this SKU even exists is to upsell people to the one that really matters (and to get people angry about it so you get some free publicity - hey, it worked, I'm talking about it, lol)...

[themrsbusta]

I'm probably wrong but I really can't see much future on the modern Mac computers... Could be the fastest on the market and the most portable, but still It looks like a "iPhone accessory" or "iPhone extension".

I feel like Apple is going to discontinue any time soon to focus only on iPhone because Mac is too niche.

[atxcyclist]

1 hour ago, themrsbusta said:

I'm probably wrong but I really can't see much future on the modern Mac computers... Could be the fastest on the market and the most portable, but still It looks like a "iPhone accessory" or "iPhone extension".

I feel like Apple is going to discontinue any time soon to focus only on iPhone because Mac is too niche.

I've been using an M2 Touchbar Macbook Pro for almost a year now, the new Apple Silicon is really quite impressive as a computing device. The technical improvements to the ARM design that Apple has made, basically the hardware x86-64 compatibility, makes the chips quite useful. I run Parallels on mine with Windows 11 ARM 64, and it gives me a lot of flexibility for running some Windows-only software. The machines are also extremely energy-efficient, I really do get nearly 20 hours on a charge doing basic tasks like surfing the internet and productivity software.

[themrsbusta]

52 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I've been using an M2 Touchbar Macbook Pro for almost a year now, the new Apple Silicon is really quite impressive as a computing device. The technical improvements to the ARM design that Apple has made, basically the hardware x86-64 compatibility, makes the chips quite useful. I run Parallels on mine with Windows 11 ARM 64, and it gives me a lot of flexibility for running some Windows-only software. The machines are also extremely energy-efficient, I really do get nearly 20 hours on a charge doing basic tasks like surfing the internet and productivity software.

Yes, but again: It's niche, you are part of this niche. Not everybody buys a Mac and still expensive to make... Every single M chip produced means one less A chip that could go to the much more profitable iPhone. Here in Brazil for example I never saw people using a M Mac, but I can name tons of people using iPhone.

Seems have no future.

[RabbidEwok]

3 hours ago, powertoys said:

The Macbook Air M1 had 8 GB of RAM. It was released amidst a pandemic and a devastating semiconductor shortage, but for $999 and considering the other aspects of the machine and it's intended target audience it was pretty understandable - to this day it's still the best $700 laptop if you don't need Windows, fight me.

 

But this? $1600 for 8 GB of RAM? On a machine with the Pro moniker? When DRAM prices are at historic lows? Even if you don't need the 16 GBs of RAM you should get it anyways, because you are paying $1600. The only reason that this SKU even exists is to upsell people to the one that really matters (and to get people angry about it so you get some free publicity - hey, it worked, I'm talking about it, lol)...

It's a replacement of the 13" Pro which also started at 8GB of RAM with the base chip. It's more expensive by $300 but you're also getting double the storage, better ports along with MagSafe and a significantly better screen, speakers etc. I don't see the reason to buy the 15" air now though. A 14" with the 8GB and M3 is a significantly better deal than the 13" Pro it has replaced and 8GB on MacOS can get you pretty far, like editing 4K video far.

[atxcyclist]

4 hours ago, themrsbusta said:

Yes, but again: It's niche, you are part of this niche. Not everybody buys a Mac and still expensive to make... Every single M chip produced means one less A chip that could go to the much more profitable iPhone. Here in Brazil for example I never saw people using a M Mac, but I can name tons of people using iPhone.

Seems have no future.

There are plenty of pieces of professional software that only work in MacOS; Most music production done in the last 20 years has been done on Apple machines, and a not insignificant amount of video production is done on Apple machines as well.

 

Two of the most profitable industries are heavily-favored with Apple hardware and software, that’s hardly ‘niche’. I work in an industry that is not at all catered-to on Apple hardware or software, which is fine I have a custom Windows workstation I built at my desk at work, and I game on a Windows machine at home. But for my laptop I wouldn’t even bother with a Windows machine right now, if for no other reason than battery life is so much better.

[Markmjb]

You have Techlinked to give us the news from this press conference, you have Mac Address making a video about it, and I wouldn't be surprised if you guys will get a new M3 macbook and review it later on as well. What's the value of this video?

Looks like you jumped on the whole bandwagon of "apple made an event so we have to make a video now".

Plus the useful part of the video is so short that it feels like I'm watching a back-blaze ad with a few useful points about an apple event instead of the other way around.

[AndreiArgeanu]

17 hours ago, CyberneticTitan said:

Top M2 Pro is 8P+4E whereas top M3 Pro is 6P+6E.

I was wondering why they didn't mention the M2 Pro at all when it came to the CPU comparison. But I guess there's a possibility it's going to match it or potentially even be a little slower in certain scenarios. The GPU is also only 10% faster according to Apple. The M3 and M3 Max seem like pretty solid upgrades at least but I feel like the M3 Pro is going to disappoint. But at the very least maybe that lower performance and smaller node means we're going to see significantly greater battery life when compared to the M2 Pro.

[themrsbusta]

On 10/31/2023 at 10:14 PM, atxcyclist said:

There are plenty of pieces of professional software that only work in MacOS; Most music production done in the last 20 years has been done on Apple machines, and a not insignificant amount of video production is done on Apple machines as well.

 

Two of the most profitable industries are heavily-favored with Apple hardware and software, that’s hardly ‘niche’. I work in an industry that is not at all catered-to on Apple hardware or software, which is fine I have a custom Windows workstation I built at my desk at work, and I game on a Windows machine at home. But for my laptop I wouldn’t even bother with a Windows machine right now, if for no other reason than battery life is so much better.

Professionals that need Mac OS don't use Macbook Air for this task not either iMac... Only Macbook Pro or Mac Pro.

Is so niche that you had to appeal for the niche of music and video professionals. While Apple is asking for gamers because probably they are having a loss. (Do you know what niche means? )

 

You know why meanwhile iPhone is not a niche? Everybody can have: Could be the doctor which his job is see emails on his Celeron laptop all day, could be the scientist that uses simulations on his Threadripper Linux, etc and etc, the only thing that changes for Android is the taste of who is using. Is not a necessity that can affect the chose. This is not a niche, while the Mac totally is: Only the content creator market really needs (debatable) and a little tiny percentage is using because of taste. Pure niche.

 

[atxcyclist]

14 minutes ago, themrsbusta said:

Professionals that need Mac OS don't use Macbook Air for this task not either iMac... Only Macbook Pro or Mac Pro.

Is so niche that you had to appeal for the niche of music and video professionals. While Apple is asking for gamers because probably they are having a loss. (Do you know what niche means? )

 

You know why meanwhile iPhone is not a niche? Everybody can have: Could be the doctor which his job is see emails on his Celeron laptop all day, could be the scientist that uses simulations on his Threadripper Linux, etc and etc, the only thing that changes for Android is the taste of who is using. Is not a necessity that can affect the chose. This is not a niche, while the Mac totally is: Only the content creator market really needs (debatable) and a little tiny percentage is using because of taste. Pure niche.

 

 

On 10/31/2023 at 1:04 PM, themrsbusta said:

I'm probably wrong but I really can't see much future on the modern Mac computers...

 

You didn't only specify those two machines, you said this about "modern Mac computers" in general. Also, there's nothing 'niche' about two global industries that generate tens of billions of dollars in revenue annually; What a wild take on your part.

[Obioban]

On 10/31/2023 at 2:04 PM, themrsbusta said:

I'm probably wrong but I really can't see much future on the modern Mac computers... Could be the fastest on the market and the most portable, but still It looks like a "iPhone accessory" or "iPhone extension".

I feel like Apple is going to discontinue any time soon to focus only on iPhone because Mac is too niche.

Window in blue, MacOS in purple. If you look back over the last decade(+), it's pretty clear which way things are headed. Harder to see looking at the present only.

Apple has been rapidly shifting their underlying technologies so the Mac hugely benefits from iPhone. The underlying software frameworks means its easier than ever to develop Mac specific software, and the shared chip architecture means the Mac is on a better performance footing than at any previous point.

 

Mac is doing better than ever, and is set up for a great era -- both hardware wise and software wise.

 

It's kind of crazy to think Apple is about to drop the Mac. The just completely making their own entire chip architecture for it (they easily could have continued to coast on Intel, and nobody would have thought anything of it, if they were going to drop the Mac), they've recently come out with new (and dramatically better) chassis for MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, iMac, and Mac Pro (as well as introducing a new product category, in the Mac Studio), and they've been putting many, MANY hours into making sure all their frameworks work across their platforms-- so they can leverage the effort developers put into iPhone software for better Mac software (and that's pretty clearly a one way benefit to Mac-- not the iPhone benefiting from MacOS developers). It's hard to think of a previous point in time where Apple has been putting more resources into the Mac.

[themrsbusta]

19 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

 

 

You didn't only specify those two machines, you said this about "modern Mac computers" in general. Also, there's nothing 'niche' about two global industries that generate tens of billions of dollars in revenue annually; What a wild take on your part.

Because don't need to specify, is to show how niche is Mac today: Audio and video professionals aren't literally a niche?

Niche is a little part of the market, gamer is a niche, development is a niche, the opposing of niche is general.

Could generate 10 billions: If don't sold for everyone is a niche. And a niche can end in seconds...

Why do you think Macs are so expensive even costing similar to iPhones to produce? To pay for the privilege to sell to a niche.

[themrsbusta]

10 hours ago, Obioban said:

Window in blue, MacOS in purple. If you look back over the last decade(+), it's pretty clear which way things are headed. Harder to see looking at the present only.

Apple has been rapidly shifting their underlying technologies so the Mac hugely benefits from iPhone. The underlying software frameworks means its easier than ever to develop Mac specific software, and the shared chip architecture means the Mac is on a better performance footing than at any previous point.

 

Mac is doing better than ever, and is set up for a great era -- both hardware wise and software wise.

 

It's kind of crazy to think Apple is about to drop the Mac. The just completely making their own entire chip architecture for it (they easily could have continued to coast on Intel, and nobody would have thought anything of it, if they were going to drop the Mac), they've recently come out with new (and dramatically better) chassis for MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, iMac, and Mac Pro (as well as introducing a new product category, in the Mac Studio), and they've been putting many, MANY hours into making sure all their frameworks work across their platforms-- so they can leverage the effort developers put into iPhone software for better Mac software (and that's pretty clearly a one way benefit to Mac-- not the iPhone benefiting from MacOS developers). It's hard to think of a previous point in time where Apple has been putting more resources into the Mac.

This graph looks wrong, the iOS line which is in the graph too should be bigger than both by a huge margin.

[Obioban]

11 minutes ago, themrsbusta said:

This graph looks wrong, the iOS line which is in the graph too should be bigger than both by a huge margin.

I don’t know why iOS is on there at all, actually— that’s a graph of desktop operating systems.

 

Maybe iPad? But then I’d expect it to be more.

[themrsbusta]

8 minutes ago, Obioban said:

I don’t know why iOS is on there at all, actually— that’s a graph of desktop OSs.

 

Maybe iPad? But then I’d expect it to be more.

 

This is more like it: Is not Mac OS which is growing, is desktop that is sinking...

 

If Apple became an "iPhone only" manufacturer in some years and create a dock like the old Motorola Atrix that give you full Mac OS, the audio and video professionals wouldn't use it?

(And Apple being Apple, probably would be wireless)

 

[Obioban]

41 minutes ago, themrsbusta said:

 

This is more like it: Is not Mac OS which is growing, is desktop that is sinking...

 

If Apple became an "iPhone only" manufacturer in some years and create a dock like the old Motorola Atrix that give you full Mac OS, the audio and video professionals wouldn't use it?

(And Apple being Apple, probably would be wireless)

 

While desktop's percentage is decrease (which even just the first phone sale of any sort would create-- before there was only desktop, so desktop sales made up 100% of computer sales, and now there is desktop AND mobile-- so obviously the percent of desktop will go down), Apple's share of desktop is growing at such a rate that Mac's share is not going down. It's really just window's that is dropping, and everything else gaining at window's expense. 

 

All platforms:

 

Important to recognize that those are percents, not sales-- so a flat RATE of marketshare in a growing market (e.g. all of mobile computing entering) shows an increase of sales. 

 

No matter how you try to squeeze it, Mac is really in the strongest position it's been in in almost 40 years. 

 

... And, no, I don't think Mac Professionals, or even prosumers, would be happy with 2 P cores, 5 GPU cores, RAM sized for a phone battery, and the thermal envelope of a phone for their computing needs. That's literally half of the power of lowest end Mac chip. 

[themrsbusta]

32 minutes ago, Obioban said:

While desktop's percentage is decrease (which even just the first phone sale of any sort would create-- before there was only desktop, so desktop sales made up 100% of computer sales, and now there is desktop AND mobile-- so obviously the percent of desktop will go down), Apple's share of desktop is growing at such a rate that Mac's share is not going down. It's really just window's that is dropping, and everything else gaining at window's expense. 

 

All platforms:

 

Important to recognize that those are percents, not sales-- so a flat RATE of marketshare in a growing market (e.g. all of mobile computing entering) shows an increase of sales. 

 

No matter how you try to squeeze it, Mac is really in the strongest position it's been in in almost 40 years. 

 

... And, no, I don't think Mac Professionals, or even prosumers, would be happy with 2 P cores, 5 GPU cores, RAM sized for a phone battery, and the thermal envelope of a phone for their computing needs. That's literally half of the power of lowest end Mac chip. 

Now I see, your graph is only about North America

Spoiler: The world is bigger than you think.

 

Mac is getting stronger only in North America

 

And I asked if they would use, not if they would like... Apple didn't care about what you like, look to the Mac Pro trash can. Most recent example is the dedicated GPUs incompatible with Mac Pro PCIe.

And is half power today (debatable), in some years would be totally different.

[atxcyclist]

2 hours ago, themrsbusta said:

Because don't need to specify, is to show how niche is Mac today: Audio and video professionals aren't literally a niche?

Niche is a little part of the market, gamer is a niche, development is a niche, the opposing of niche is general.

Could generate 10 billions: If don't sold for everyone is a niche. And a niche can end in seconds...

Why do you think Macs are so expensive even costing similar to iPhones to produce? To pay for the privilege to sell to a niche.

Music and movie/television production are two of the biggest and most profitable industries out there, those are not niche markets. There are technical reasons why MacOS is the choice of especially audio production professionals, it isn’t by happenstance or ‘to flex’ that people in audio-heavy industries use MacOS and pay more for the hardware. MacOS also has OS-wide color consistency, something that graphic designers need for their workflow.
 

Professionals spend more money where they need to and when it’s a boost for their workflow. Example: A professional mechanic doesn’t buy cheap junk tools when they’re making money with them, even if a backyard mechanic will cheap-out. 

 

You made a general statement about the future success of Mac computers, you were incorrect, and several people including myself have explained how you were incorrect with examples and graphs; You not being specific and then removing half the variables down the line when they don’t fit your narrative, is called moving the goalposts.

 

 

[Obioban]

10 hours ago, themrsbusta said:

Now I see, your graph is only about North America

Spoiler: The world is bigger than you think.

 

Mac is getting stronger only in North America

 

And I asked if they would use, not if they would like... Apple didn't care about what you like, look to the Mac Pro trash can. Most recent example is the dedicated GPUs incompatible with Mac Pro PCIe.

And is half power today (debatable), in some years would be totally different.

To be more accurate, the Mac is getting stronger in rich countries-- which makes sense, since they basically start ~$1000 and go UP from there. But, like it or not, that is largely what matters for platform success. And, yes, the USA is the most important of all of them, given that that's where the platforms are actually made. 

 

[ars3n1k]

I won't quote anything other than a quick news article to support, but even with their large decline YoY, their Mac line is still a $26 Billion (BILLION) business.

 

Edit: Forgot link - https://www.thestreet.com/apple/other-products/apple-stock-mac-revenue-down-by-34-whats-next

[NF-A12x25]

love seeing cope from apple fanboys insisting that it’s acceptable to ship 8gb ram with a base model in 2023

 

it was barely acceptable 2-4 years ago, and it’s borderline ewaste now