Typical Apple Innovation…

[atxcyclist]

9 hours ago, NF-A12x25 said:

love seeing cope from apple fanboys insisting that it’s acceptable to ship 8gb ram with a base model in 2023

 

it was barely acceptable 2-4 years ago, and it’s borderline ewaste now

I'd never buy one, but clearly they sell 8gb ram configurations or they wouldn't make them. There are plenty of people that have very simple computing needs, but are more familiar and/or comfortable with macOS. Of course you can buy a Windows laptop or a Chromebook for less, anyone making an argument about the value proposition for the 8gb Apple configurations are fooling themselves.

[NF-A12x25]

12 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

22 hours ago, NF-A12x25 said:

 

I'd never buy one, but clearly they sell 8gb ram configurations or they wouldn't make them. There are plenty of people that have very simple computing needs, but are more familiar and/or comfortable with macOS.

the fact that they sell them at all is the bad thing, and making excuses for that is dumb.

 

They shouldn’t be selling stuff that’ll be ewaste in a year or two, let alone this stuff that’s already ewaste. It goes against their claim of sustainability and in general is just scammy. And since it’s unified RAM that’s GPU vram and regular ram in 1, making it even worse. it’s incredibly anti-consumer.

[atxcyclist]

9 hours ago, NF-A12x25 said:

the fact that they sell them at all is the bad thing, and making excuses for that is dumb.

 

They shouldn’t be selling stuff that’ll be ewaste in a year or two, let alone this stuff that’s already ewaste. It goes against their claim of sustainability and in general is just scammy. And since it’s unified RAM that’s GPU vram and regular ram in 1, making it even worse. it’s incredibly anti-consumer.

Claiming I'm dumb and making excuses for Apple? Almost every single Chromebook made will be e-waste in a few years after manufacturing, and look at how many millions of those are being dumped into schools worldwide. At least Apple has a history of supporting hardware with software and OS updates for a while, in many cases close to a decade.

 

You're complaining about the wrong market segment if 'e-waste' is where you're taking a stand, Chromebooks and low-cost tablets are a far greater source of e-waste than low-spec Apple machines.

[NF-A12x25]

16 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

You're complaining about the wrong market segment if 'e-waste' is where you're taking a stand, Chromebooks and low-cost tablets are a far greater source of e-waste than low-spec Apple machines.

this is whataboutism

 

low spec apple crap is a huge source of ewaste, sure chromebooks and shitnuts tablets are worse but that doesn’t make apple all sunshine and roses

 

like apple’s low spec ewaste, low spec chromebooks are already ewaste when they are produced.

[atxcyclist]

37 minutes ago, NF-A12x25 said:

this is whataboutism

 

low spec apple crap is a huge source of ewaste, sure chromebooks and shitnuts tablets are worse but that doesn’t make apple all sunshine and roses

 

like apple’s low spec ewaste, low spec chromebooks are already ewaste when they are produced.

No it isn’t, you’ve just made a ridiculously bad argument. Chromebooks and cheap tablets have an extremely short update path on the offset, period. When they are made, it is a guarantee that they will be unsupported in a couple of years, so they quickly fail their basic use of being an essentially internet-based device. 

 

Just because you cannot understand the difference between manufactured e-waste and low-spec but otherwise long-supported hardware, doesn’t mean I or anyone else has that problem. I have 64gb of ram in my machine at work, unless I’m running CAD or image editing software I never break 8gb. I can run a web browser, email client, and something like Word or Excel, at the same time, and never breach 8gb.

It is more than possible to do even productivity computing on a machine with only 8gb of ram, and swap-file use on NVMe drives is a nothingburger to basic computing performance anyway, in the rare instance someone bumps up against their ram capacity. The vast majority of users would get by on 8gb of ram and never experience a problem, and Apple will support a machine for almost a decade so…It’s a fine purchase if you’re only surfing the web and doing light tasks, and vastly exceeds the usefulness of a Chromebook or cheap tablet with 2-3 years tops of OS/security updates.

[NF-A12x25]

ok buddy, keep thinking that. meanwhile apple will keep selling manufactured ewaste regardless of either of our opinions, my correct one or your cope one

[atxcyclist]

38 minutes ago, NF-A12x25 said:

ok buddy, keep thinking that. meanwhile apple will keep selling manufactured ewaste regardless of either of our opinions, my correct one or your cope one

I will, because you still don’t know the difference between low-end specs, and actual manufactured e-waste. It’s not for a lack of explanations either, you’re just being obstinate and made a bad argument with nothing to support it.

 

 

[NF-A12x25]

On 11/10/2023 at 6:32 PM, atxcyclist said:

and actual manufactured e-waste

which is what it is. 8gb of ram in 2023 is not enough for any modern OS to even run more than a couple Chrome tabs and a word processing application smoothly, let alone anything one might want to do with the device past that.

[atxcyclist]

4 hours ago, NF-A12x25 said:

which is what it is. 8gb of ram in 2023 is not enough for any modern OS to even run more than a couple Chrome tabs and a word processing application smoothly, let alone anything one might want to do with the device past that.

The Windows 10 machine I'm on right now is using just shy of 6gb of ram. I have this site, a news aggregator, Facebook, and two email accounts running in Chrome, I also have another browser open with my eBay account, a light desktop game running, and just for grins I opened-up a document in a word processing application, and additionally opened a spreadsheet as well; That's way more than most casual web-browsing people will be doing at once, you're just demonstrably wrong. Someone with a handful of tabs in a browser and a word processor open, is not going to stumble with 8gb of ram. 

[NF-A12x25]

12 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

The Windows 10 machine I'm on right now is using just shy of 6gb of ram. I have this site, a news aggregator, Facebook, and two email accounts running in Chrome, I also have another browser open with my eBay account, a light desktop game running, and just for grins I opened-up a document in a word processing application, and additionally opened a spreadsheet as well; That's way more than most casual web-browsing people will be doing at once, you're just demonstrably wrong. Someone with a handful of tabs in a browser and a word processor open, is not going to stumble with 8gb of ram. 

Now try doing the same thing on an iGPU machine. iGPUs use a not-insignificant portion of that 8gb when they’re active, even more so when they’re running something a little more graphically intense like a game.

[atxcyclist]

1 hour ago, NF-A12x25 said:

Now try doing the same thing on an iGPU machine. iGPUs use a not-insignificant portion of that 8gb when they’re active, even more so when they’re running something a little more graphically intense like a game.

The few hundred megabytes of VRAM that was using doesn’t change the outcome, that machine has a 2GB GTX 960 anyway so there couldn’t be that much sitting in VRAM. You also said this was a problem for a routine user, we’re not talking about gaming, so it’s just moving the goalposts on your end.

 

I posted actual proof and you’re still trying to weasel around it, I’m just going to ignore you now.

[NF-A12x25]

4 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

6 hours ago, NF-A12x25 said:

 

The few hundred megabytes of VRAM that was using doesn’t change the outcome, that machine has a 2GB GTX 960 anyway so there couldn’t be that much sitting in VRAM. You also said this was a problem for a routine user, we’re not talking about gaming, so it’s just moving the goalposts on your end.

 

I posted actual proof and you’re still trying to weasel around it, I’m just going to ignore you now.

you clearly don’t grasp the way a system will unpack itself when there’s more ram. If you were actually running on 8gb ram, the usage would be even smaller but the system MUCH more sluggish.

 

Running on 32gb and usage is less than 8 doesn’t mean anything, usage might only be 2-4gb if you were running the same apps on an 8gb device but they’re much worse to use. And your spiel about how Apple will still support it in 10 years… try 5, and even after a couple years it’ll be unreasonably slow.

When we talk about real world usage, unlike your shitty little “test,” I had an 8gb M1 Air that my old university gave me, even writing papers for my political science major and having a few chrome tabs open for references was noticeably sluggish. I sold it, and with the money I got from selling it I built an actually decent system- I think i made about $1000 at the time, which bought a much nicer PC than that shitty macbook.

Now of course I’ve spent more on my system since then with various upgrades, but even now for the price of a base model macbook you can buy a PC with a 12th gen i7 or maybe a newish ryzen 7 and a 3090 or 6950xt with 32gb ram and WAY more SSD capacity if you’re savvy about finding a used deal on hardwareswap. Hell for the not so technologically inclined you can even get a fairly decent prebuilt, maybe an i5 and 3080 with the same amount of ram and a terabyte or 2 of SSDs, for that kinda money. 

Even if you don’t agree semantically with the fact that it is literal ewaste, right now, you gotta admit that it’s predatory and offers a terrible value proposition, and it’ll be ewaste very soon if it isn’t right now.