US ITC Bans Apple Watch Imports

[Issac Zachary]

9 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

No, no, guys. Stop acting like apple haters. Clearly Masimo is only a patent troll cause apple can never do wrong. Apple is the perfect company, a shinning beacon of light in an industry filled with copycats and patent trolls.

Masimo clearly stoled the idea from apple who had it in the works probably a decade earlier than everyone else cause Apple is so innovative and so much in the future compared to the rest of the evil companies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/S

You are either being sarcastic or didn't notice that Apple stole some 30 employees from Masimo by offering them more pay.

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, Issac Zachary said:

You are either being sarcastic or didn't notice that Apple stole some 30 employees from Masimo by offering them more pay.

psssssssssssssssssssssssssssssst...................................... <whisper>look at the bottom</whisper>

 

and those employee were apple's from the beginning, cause all belong to apple!

[atxcyclist]

I was somewhat considering buying an Apple Watch, I don't need this O2 feature but if they're not going to be importing them... I guess their availability is going to be quite poor.

[Monkey Dust]

4 hours ago, Issac Zachary said:

You are either being sarcastic or didn't notice that Apple stole some 30 employees from Masimo by offering them more pay.

Offering employees more money to move to your company isn't stealing, it's merely outbidding.

[HumdrumPenguin]

18 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

No, no, guys. Stop acting like apple haters. Clearly Masimo is only a patent troll cause apple can never do wrong. Apple is the perfect company, a shinning beacon of light in an industry filled with copycats and patent trolls.

Masimo clearly stoled the idea from apple who had it in the works probably a decade earlier than everyone else cause Apple is so innovative and so much in the future compared to the rest of the evil companies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

/S

How dare you degrade their holy name to a non capitalized, filthy word?

[suicidalfranco]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:45 PM, HumdrumPenguin said:

How dare you degrade their holy name to a non capitalized, filthy word?

I'm sorry.

Will 1499 lashes be enough to obtain forgiveness?

Forgive me great lord and savior Tim for i have sinned!

[Donut417]

On 12/29/2023 at 12:24 AM, Issac Zachary said:

Apple stole some 30 employees from Masimo by offering them more pay.

So what you are saying is 30 Masimo employees left the company and went to Apple because Apple was offering a better deal? How is that Apple's problem? Employees are allowed to leave their jobs for any reason. Employers are not loyal to their employees. Why should employees be loyal to their employer? Apple offered a better deal and 30 people took them up on that offer.

[HumdrumPenguin]

5 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Employers are not loyal to their employees. Why should employees be loyal to their employer?

This is the way.

[Issac Zachary]

On 12/29/2023 at 1:10 AM, suicidalfranco said:

psssssssssssssssssssssssssssssst...................................... <whisper>look at the bottom</whisper>

 

and those employee were apple's from the beginning, cause all belong to apple!

 

On 12/30/2023 at 4:49 PM, Donut417 said:

So what you are saying is 30 Masimo employees left the company and went to Apple because Apple was offering a better deal? How is that Apple's problem? Employees are allowed to leave their jobs for any reason. Employers are not loyal to their employees. Why should employees be loyal to their employer? Apple offered a better deal and 30 people took them up on that offer.

So you invent something, say a new form of space travel that you could make millions or billions on.

 

It would be ok if Apple offered your employee's more, they move to Apple, then Apple takes their knowledge of your work and presents to the world the same form of space travel and makes the money off of your work? That's perfectly ok?

[Donut417]

Just now, Issac Zachary said:

 

So you invent something, say a new form of space travel that you could make millions or billions on.

 

It would be ok if Apple offered your employee's more, they move to Apple, then Apple presents to the world the same form of space travel and makes the money off of your work?

No. All Im saying is saying Apple is stealing employees is wrong. No employer in the US OWNs their employees. Employees have the right to tell their employer to pound sand and move on. Now if those employees took protected info from the previous company, then its on the employee, not on Apple.

[CommanderAlex]

45 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Now if those employees took protected info from the previous company...

Now Nvidia is caught up in one of those with Valeo...

https://www.engadget.com/nvidia-sued-for-stealing-trade-secrets-after-screensharing-blunder-showed-rival-companys-code-063009605.html

[Issac Zachary]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

No. All Im saying is saying Apple is stealing employees is wrong. No employer in the US OWNs their employees. Employees have the right to tell their employer to pound sand and move on. Now if those employees took protected info from the previous company, then its on the employee, not on Apple.

And I never said that steeling employs is wrong either.

 

It's the fact that Apple stole the tech that was invented by another company. How they got it doesn't matter. But bribing people, employees or not, is wrong, period.

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, Issac Zachary said:

But bribing people,

What judge and jury said Apple bribed employees? Until a court has an ruling we dont know what went down. Im sure Masimo will have their day in court where they can prove Apple stole their tech. The fact that the court of appeals lifted the ban has me doubting Masimo's case.

[leadeater]

13 hours ago, Donut417 said:

What judge and jury said Apple bribed employees? Until a court has an ruling we dont know what went down. Im sure Masimo will have their day in court where they can prove Apple stole their tech. The fact that the court of appeals lifted the ban has me doubting Masimo's case.

They have had their day in court, they didn't like they didn't win and are appealing and trying different suits etc. But very importantly, they had their day in court and did not win aka lost.

 

Quote

In May, the patent fight stumped a jury, which could not reach a unanimous verdict on the question of whether Apple stole the idea for its blood oxygen feature from Masimo.

 

While Masimo could not make its case to a jury, the trial did reveal that Apple discussed the idea of acquiring Masimo at one point before ultimately deciding against it.

 

The ruling from the International Trade Commission, which is separate from the case that was before a jury, is being contested by Apple. The company has said it will "take all measures" to resume sales of the affected watches in the U.S.

 

Also the USITC is actually only saying and can only say that Apple is likely to be violating patient(s) and place an import and sales ban for the purpose of sorting it out in Civil Court. A ban that has been lifted anyway.

[wanderingfool2]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

They have had their day in court, they didn't like they didn't win and are appealing and trying different suits etc. But very importantly, they had their day in court and did not win aka lost.

From my understanding though, the jury was mostly in favor of Apple in the case (6 to 1)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-01/apple-masimo-judge-declares-mistrial-in-trade-secret-theft-fight

Although the case as well I think wasn't in regards to the employees themselves but still in regards to the patent infringement.

 

Where Apple lost was with the ITC...which I mean isn't necessarily saying too much.

 

With that said if Apple did poach the employees, it really is bad even though technically might be legal.

 

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

Also the USITC is actually only saying and can only say that Apple is likely to be violating patient(s) and place an import and sales ban for the purpose of sorting it out in Civil Court. A ban that has been lifted anyway.

The ban's only been temporary lifted until a new decision is made whether or not Apple has changed up their device enough.

 

20 hours ago, Donut417 said:

No. All Im saying is saying Apple is stealing employees is wrong. No employer in the US OWNs their employees. Employees have the right to tell their employer to pound sand and move on. Now if those employees took protected info from the previous company, then its on the employee, not on Apple.

Apple intentionally poaching employees from a competitor for the purpose of advancing their product is actually wrong.

 

They approached the, at the time, CTO and 30 other employees...that wreaks of trying to advance their technology by hiring away from the competitor knowing full well that they will bring along knowledge which cannot be realistically bifurcated.  It's actually a general problem, that people will have knowledge on things that were being worked on and if those things were essentially part of R&D and specifically research stuff it's going to be near impossible for them to not use the knowledge at their new place of work when you hire them to do the exact same job.

 

There's also the issue of intentionally making it impossible for competitors by essentially overpaying employees.  By throwing money at employees to make them move to Apple, Apple is effectively bribing specific employees to leave.  Now if Apple had just placed ads and people were responding to those ones it's different, but it sounds like Apple went out of their way to get these people.

 

Specifically imagine that there is a competitor mechanic shop, then the big named player sees that the other shop is doing everything better.  In order to kill the competition they hire away all the mechanics by intentionally increasing their salary until they decide to join you.  The smaller shop can't compete as the larger shop has the money to throw around; and the connections to be able to pull it off.

 

The part that makes this I think bad is that Apple seemingly targeted it, where at one point it sounds like there was actual discussions on purchasing the company to gain their IP. So yea, hiring away employees from a company you at one point considered taking over is a big red flag and makes poaching those employees wrong (although proving such a thing would still be difficult in court)

 

TicketMaster actually did a similar thing before, and essentially ran the other company into the ground while the lawsuits were going on

[Issac Zachary]

To be fair, I wasn't there when it happened. I have no knowledge of what Apple did or didn't do. It still is irritating to hear that they might have. Of course, what company is exempt from fraud of some sort these days? Now Cummins and Dodge are in for it for Dieselgate 2.0.

 

It makes me want to forget tech and move to some remote part of the world and raise food and buld my house from scratch instead of sitting with family all vacation long so everyone can just stare at their phones in the same room together.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Issac Zachary said:

It makes me want to forget tech and move to some remote part of the world and raise food and buld my house from scratch instead of sitting with family all vacation long so everyone can just stare at their phones in the same room together.

Hate to break it to you but the food growing industry isn't any better. Just look at Monsanto and seeds, how they control the markets and what they do to those not using their seeds.

[ccnow]

From everything I've read about this Masimo sounds like they have a legitimate case. Apple just seems to be looking to delay.

 

Remember Apple was meeting surrounding Masimo's technology. They ultimately decided not to use it, but also hired a senior engineer from the Masimo project. His employment at Apple didn't pan out well and he went off to start his own company selling similar technology - they were also sued over this.

 

My bet is that Apple is seeking to avoid paying royalties on the watches they've already sold, which doesn't seem to be part of the ITC ruling, and that they looking for delays either so they can change the way they're doing this in Software and continue sales, or to change the hardware in the Series 10 watch and discontinue selling the Series 9 which also avoids the problem entirely. If the ITC appeal drags out past September it's really like nothing ever happened to them, isn't it.

[Issac Zachary]

One thing to keep in mind is we don't live in a world where everyone is under the same rules and everything is 100% fair (lessons from my parents). The rich are the ones playing the cards.

 

It's kind of like how fines work. My only speeding ticket was almost the same amount of money I had for the entire month at the time, money I had devoted to food since I no longer could afford a place to rent and had moved out. And that was going 49mph in a 40mph school zone. But rich people are always passing me like their at some sort of race because I go the speed limit, but they can afford their speeding tickets no problem.

 

Inicentally at the time I had lost my job because my place of work cut our hours, wages and all benefits, not because we, in our department, had done anything wrong, but because the higher ups wanted to devote more funds towards building a new football field and other such things. They begged me to stay, but I had to try to find work somewhere else and wasn't going to be working basically for free after working 5 years there.

 

The same with large corporations like Apple. They don't really care about the little guy, as far as I can tell. And when they get fined it's usually pocket change for them.

[wanderingfool2]

9 hours ago, Issac Zachary said:

To be fair, I wasn't there when it happened. I have no knowledge of what Apple did or didn't do. It still is irritating to hear that they might have. Of course, what company is exempt from fraud of some sort these days? Now Cummins and Dodge are in for it for Dieselgate 2.0.

I mean you are also missing the whole Toyota rigged the safety test results of their vehicle as a prime example.

 

 

What bothers me so much about this kind of thing though is Apple keeps getting around the whole taking other companies ideas/trademarks in ways that seems underhanded but is technically legal.  At a certain point we need to accept that Apple is doing things like this intentionally.

 

Tile for example had a similar situation in this case (although arguably Tile wasn't a vapor ware patent company). [Meetings with Tile and the exec's, seeing how well Tile was doing then miraculously they come out with a similar product and "better" product while blocking Tile access to the new API that allowed Tile to create their product in the same way Apple did...this is after Tile showed them what they could do]

 

iPad Trademark.  Apple created a shell company, had the shell company negotiate terms (but not put all of it in writing), pretend their business was called something like IP application distribution (or something like that), and then when they acquired the rights to the iPad trademark they gobbled up the shell company.  They effectively undercut the name's value by millions

 

Apple vs Apple [with music].  While technically the contract wasn't well enough written Apple still effectively went into the grey area  with Apple Music...just not enough to violate

 

iPhone trademark.  Jobs called up Cisco who owned the trademark and asked for the use of it, without payment.  When they refused, they had their lawyers claim it was abandoned; and proceeded to make the iPhone...it was eventually settled out of court (sounds like Cisco did collect their settlement though).

 

Multiple cases of Apple kicking a popular app out of the app store due to violations, then coming out with their own app that does the exact same thing shortly after (using the volume rocker as a photo button)