are we stuck with hole punch displays?

[BaidDSB]

Motorized cameras are basically gone. Underscreen cameras don't seem to be progressing at all.

 

Are with stuck with a hole in our phone or now even laptop screens?

[manikyath]

if only there were this solution to the problem.. like.. a "bezel" where front-facing features could be.

[Oshino Shinobu]

It wasn't that long ago when under screen finger print scanners were a sticking point for development, but now they're everywhere. Under/behind screen cameras will come, or some other innovation.

[flibberdipper]

Just because there aren't 30 new phones every year with under-screen cameras doesn't mean there isn't progress being made on them. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they became the new norm for Android phones at some point in the next 5 years once everyone figures out a happy balance with them.

[LAwLz]

I am more surprised by how much people care about the hole punch. 

95% of the time, it's basically just an "icon" on the notification bar.

 

I'd much rather have that, than a fairly big chunk of the front of the phone not functional (a bezel). 

There are some rare instances where the hole is in the way, but if something is better 95% of the time, and annoying 5% of the time then that's a fair trade in my opinion. 

[Darth Xaim]

Motorized Front Camera is kinda a dead end, in so far as durability and reliability is concerned.

Heck, Samsung even gave up on it when the more current generation of A8- series of phones gave up that feature, whereas in the A80, it was THE main feature of the phone.

 

Punchhole front camera is gonna go away eventually once the tech and trend has caught up.

Like what happened to physical face buttons on phones.

[Mihle]

Hole punch > Bigger bezel > Big notch.

[Braeun]

Honestly, I'd be good with just getting rid of the front-facing camera. I never use it.

[HenrySalayne]

On 9/16/2023 at 6:08 PM, LAwLz said:

I am more surprised by how much people care about the hole punch. 

95% of the time, it's basically just an "icon" on the notification bar.

 

I'd much rather have that, than a fairly big chunk of the front of the phone not functional (a bezel). 

There are some rare instances where the hole is in the way, but if something is better 95% of the time, and annoying 5% of the time then that's a fair trade in my opinion. 

But that's not how it works. A punchhole is more intrusive than a notch which is more intrusive than a bezel.

Personally I find any form of irregularity in a display obnoxious. I honestly feel like the Android approach to a notch is the most preferable way. You can disable that the content will flow around the notch in landscape mode. Phone displays tend to be much wider than 16:9, so a black bar on the side is not really annoying. In portrait mode the notch is flanked by status icons on each side (white with a black background).

Hole punch cameras tend to be lower down than notches, which makes the described fix of the intrusiveness a more compromised solution.

 

Under-display cameras are currently physically limited by an effect called diffraction grating. The grid of tiny holes for an under-display camera will diffract all incoming light. I don't see an easy solution for this problem but a microlens array. Which would mean display and camera become a single unit. On the other hand, manufacturers could easily make the front facing camera a lightfield camera.

 

I hope for the notch to make a return before it's succeeded by lightfield cameras.

[Mihle]

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

But that's not how it works. A punchhole is more intrusive than a notch which is more intrusive than a bezel.

Personally I find any form of irregularity in a display obnoxious. I honestly feel like the Android approach to a notch is the most preferable way. You can disable that the content will flow around the notch in landscape mode. Phone displays tend to be much wider than 16:9, so a black bar on the side is not really annoying. In portrait mode the notch is flanked by status icons on each side (white with a black background).

Hole punch cameras tend to be lower down than notches, which makes the described fix of the intrusiveness a more compromised solution.

Hole punch on my S20 FE doesn't cover any content at all.

The only things that are where the camera is in portrait mode is the notification row. Coming from a phone with a big notch that's also why I hate a notch above anything else, the big ones takes up so much space that there is only space for the symbol for like 3 notifications or something, nothing more. While with hole punch it's still a lot of space for them.

In landscape, that I only really use in YouTube, it doesn't use the area where the camera is at all.

For those small only camera notches, I for some reason notice them more than hole punch, don't know why. Especially if background there is not black.

1 hour ago, HenrySalayne said:

 

I hope for the notch to make a return before it's succeeded by lightfield cameras.

I disagree.

[HenrySalayne]

42 minutes ago, Mihle said:

Hole punch on my S20 FE doesn't cover any content at all.

The only things that are where the camera is in portrait mode is the notification row. Coming from a phone with a big notch that's also why I hate a notch above anything else, the big ones takes up so much space that there is only space for the symbol for like 3 notifications or something, nothing more. While with hole punch it's still a lot of space for them.

In landscape, that I only really use in YouTube, it doesn't use the area where the camera is at all.

For those small only camera notches, I for some reason notice them more than hole punch, don't know why. Especially if background there is not black.

If there is no content near the punch hole, why do you need pixels there? It doesn't make any sense to argue for the punchhole, if it's not an actual hole in the displayed content. A notch can do the very same.

 

Not to mention the loss of depth sensors and actual safe face scanning technology. In this regard smartphones have massively devolved in the past few years.

 

50 minutes ago, Mihle said:

I disagree.

You can't. If I start a sentence with "I hope" how do you disagree?!?

[SpaceGhostC2C]

On 9/16/2023 at 11:09 AM, BaidDSB said:

Are with stuck with a hole in our phone or now even laptop screens?

 

I never had a phone with a punch hole camera, so I guess we are not stuck with it?

[LAwLz]

5 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

But that's not how it works. A punchhole is more intrusive than a notch which is more intrusive than a bezel.

Glas half full vs glas half empty.

 

It's just a matter of how you view things. You can't deny the fact that you get more screen area, when measured in cm^2, on a phone with a punchhole camera, than you do on an otherwise identical phone with a bezel and the camera inside that.

I don't think it is more "intrusive". I would in fact argue that the bezel is more intrusive because it takes up more space on the front of the phone.

 

5 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

Personally I find any form of irregularity in a display obnoxious.

And I don't.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

If there is no content near the punch hole, why do you need pixels there? It doesn't make any sense to argue for the punchhole, if it's not an actual hole in the displayed content. A notch can do the very same.

Wait, are you arguing for notches but against hole punches? I thought you were arguing for having bezels instead of hole punches.

Arguing for notches instead of hole punches makes no sense at all in my eyes. You still get the screen irregularities and content that might "end up behind the notch", but you just get more dead space than a hole punch. It's like the worst of both worlds.

 

 

2 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

Not to mention the loss of depth sensors and actual safe face scanning technology. In this regard smartphones have massively devolved in the past few years.

That's a separate issue.

A notch or bezel doesn't automatically mean you get depth sensors and such, nor does a hole punch mean you lack a depth sensor.

It's possible to do any combination of those things you want. A phone with bezels and no depth sensor, and a phone with a hole punch with a depth sensor.

 

 

2 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

You can't. If I start a sentence with "I hope" how do you disagree?!?

Of course you can disagree with someone's hopes and wishes.

"I disagree" doesn't mean "you're wrong". It just means "I don't think the same as you".

[Mihle]

12 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

If there is no content near the punch hole, why do you need pixels there?

Less distracting, I notice it less. Compared to one of those tiny notches. Why not have pixels there if it doesn't change how much it covers much?

12 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

It doesn't make any sense to argue for the punchhole, if it's not an actual hole in the displayed content. A notch can do the very same.

 

Not to mention the loss of depth sensors and actual safe face scanning technology. In this regard smartphones have massively devolved in the past few years.

 

You can't. If I start a sentence with "I hope" how do you disagree?!?

I don't personally use face log in, ans if they do have depth sensors and stuff what I said about bug notches become true and I would rather just have a bigger border at that point.

[Basti0815]

On 9/20/2023 at 11:01 PM, Braeun said:

Honestly, I'd be good with just getting rid of the front-facing camera. I never use it.

Only for postident... 

[Mark Kaine]

On 9/18/2023 at 6:11 PM, Sakuriru said:

I'm not sure there's some kind of tech that will allow cameras to see through the screen. That isn't really how light works.

 

So uh, we're stuck with it.

there are already see through screens... you just have to turn off the pixels around that part where the camera is when needed = problem solved...

 

 

[Mark Kaine]

10 minutes ago, Sakuriru said:

Yeah that's a reasonable solution.

its reasonable as in that's how that works and what we'll get in the next 5-10 years, yes.

its probably not easy to mass produce,  but since phones are in stagnation for at least a decade,  that's the kind of "innovation" you can expect,  they need to make people buy new phones every year somehow after all...~

[Mark Kaine]

On 9/20/2023 at 11:01 PM, Braeun said:

Honestly, I'd be good with just getting rid of the front-facing camera. I never use it.

that's the thing, why is that not an option... i don't use it, i hate it, its ugly...

 

same for phone sizes,  they're way too big nowadays...

 

and they aren't even faster, yes, cpus gotten faster, but with that there came more bloat naturally...

 

Android kitkat / lollipop was where its at, never had more responsive phone(s) than my Xperia z1/z3... i still have them,  still more responsive than any modern phone lol (camera is better too and the screen has more accurate colors, but hey, progress, i guess!)

[Mark Kaine]

9 minutes ago, Sakuriru said:

Hear me out. Slide out camera.

i like it!

[BaidDSB]

 

18 minutes ago, Sakuriru said:

Hear me out. Slide out camera.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

i like it!

they did it

 

didnt go well

[Dedayog]

On 9/20/2023 at 5:01 PM, Braeun said:

Honestly, I'd be good with just getting rid of the front-facing camera. I never use it.

Be nice if we could get rid of the front facing camera so selfies would be a thing of the past.

[Dedayog]

3 hours ago, Sakuriru said:

Hear me out. Slide out camera.

Like the OnePlus 7T Pro?