Madison reveals experiences working at LMG

[digitalscream]

6 minutes ago, Gordon_4 said:

The instant someone touches you without your consent, it moves beyond HR.  It was something I found baffling but depressingly unsurprising about the nonsense over at Blizzard: what was alleged there was not merely unprofessional behavior, it was serious criminal conduct.  At that point you don't both with the smile and nods from HR, you pick up the telephone and you contact the police.

And if it's just a hand on the shoulder or arm? How high a priority do you think that's going to be for the police and Crown Attorney Office when they're dealing with thefts, murders and corruption cases?

 

I'm not saying it's irrelevant; I'm just saying that this is the real world, where people have to make value judgements about a) prioritisation, b) public interest and c) the chance of a successful conviction. When a case is going to be decided solely on witness testimony in front of a jury, the best case scenario is a coin-flip result, so it will fail on the latter relative to any case where there's physical or documentary evidence.

 

That's what I mean by all this - I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it's the reality of criminal cases when there are scarce resources to prosecute them.

 

As I said...there's all of that, or there's the Twitter option which was guaranteed to get the right reaction because LMG couldn't afford not to. And for all those saying it's not predictable...well, I predicted it back in the first 5-10 pages of this thread, and that's exactly what's come to pass. So...it was at least a bit predictable

[Tajl3r]

we still on this i give it two weeks until it all dies down 

bandwagon is a weird thing

[digitalscream]

Just now, Tajl3r said:

we still on this i give it two weeks until it all dies down 

bandwagon is a weird thing

Stop it. Some of us like arguments

[Tajl3r]

 i rather watch some movie tv show

gl hf

[Gordon_4]

4 minutes ago, digitalscream said:

And if it's just a hand on the shoulder or arm? How high a priority do you think that's going to be for the police and Crown Attorney Office when they're dealing with thefts, murders and corruption cases?

 

I'm not saying it's irrelevant; I'm just saying that this is the real world, where people have to make value judgements about a) prioritisation, b) public interest and c) the chance of a successful conviction. When a case is going to be decided solely on witness testimony in front of a jury, the best case scenario is a coin-flip result, so it will fail on the latter relative to any case where there's physical or documentary evidence.

 

That's what I mean by all this - I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it's the reality of criminal cases when there are scarce resources to prosecute them.

 

As I said...there's all of that, or there's the Twitter option which was guaranteed to get the right reaction because LMG couldn't afford not to. And for all those saying it's not predictable...well, I predicted it back in the first 5-10 pages of this thread, and that's exactly what's come to pass. So...it was at least a bit predictable

 

I think as a whole, we need to remember how to say "Fuck off" to someone.  Someone puts their hand on my shoulder without being my friend or family, those two words fly out of my mouth on reflex.  Most sane people kind of jump back and throw their hands up when you do that loud enough.  And if that doesn't work, give them a good, firm shove.

 

EDIT: However this does not absolve total shitbirds who failed to take onboard the lesson of 'keeping your hands to yourself' that most people get through their heads by age seven. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Gordon_4
Additional clarity

[digitalscream]

1 minute ago, Gordon_4 said:

 

I think as a whole, we need to remember how to say "Fuck off" to someone.  Someone puts their hand on my shoulder without being my friend or family, those two words fly out of my mouth on reflex.  Most sane people kind of jump back and throw their hands up when you do that loud enough. 

I probably mentioned that I'm autistic earlier in the thread - I have an extreme reaction to uninvited contact, it feels very much like an electric shock. My reaction usually scares people so much that they never, ever do it again.

 

Ergo...I have no experience with that.

[Reclus]

3 minutes ago, Emperor Anime said:

No. It's the staple of criminal law and only criminal law. Not society. Even civil law operates under a "balance of probabilities" framework.

 

And I've been criminally charged before when I was young and dumb so I know that lol. The courts can exonerate someone, but public opinion has no such obligation and that's not how the world works. I mean look at fucking OJ Simpson lol.

 

Broader society and private citizens have no obligation to follow the "reasonable doubt" principle in all cases.

I'm not sure what your argument here is. Court. Law. Verdict. You gave experienced it so the system does work. I don't want to get into if her allegations are criminal or civil. The law literally says it can be both.

OJ Simpson is an example of the same percentages that people here don't take into account. A small but real number that things are not what they appear to be.

Also a better example would be Amber Heard. Went from everyone believed her to a literal meme. 

 

[Electricity Taster]

 

On 8/16/2023 at 9:14 AM, iAxX said:

Might be too late for that. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the CEO just quit. 

 

• Conflicts of interest with ASUS/Noctua
• Linus lying about his interactions with Billet
• Linus being completely tone deaf in his response and turning the YT tech community against him
• The labs team apparently being incompetent and losing all credibility
• Ignored workplace sexual harassment and bullying

And it's only Wednesday. 

 

On paper, yes. But we've "known" Linus for years. He's always been a decent person and I think what has happened is just a matter of boundaries slowly being pushed and him not noticing.

I'm going to make some predictions based on wise experience. This is not what I want to happen, but what I believe will happen assuming no more fires break out:

-The Madison allegations will be investigated and the people responsible will be fired. Yvonne will be the one to explain this on camera.
-LMG will offer to buy out Billet.
-The WAN show becomes separate from LTT/Floatplane. The LMG CEO will write a weekly newsletter that gets posted on the forums and read on the WAN show.
-New procedures will be designed to enable blind testing at the LTT labs.
-The turd-shaped, brown Noctua screwdriver gets cancelled.
-A new video gets uploaded to Linus Cat Tips in exactly 9 days.
-The storm will blow over in under a month (back to school amnesia). LTT store revenue will drop 33% during this period and then return to normal.
-In the coming years, LMG will hire 40% more women (this is what Hollywood did after #MeToo).

Edited August 17, 2023 by Electricity Taster
ghrammar

[Kisai]

21 minutes ago, Emperor Anime said:

Nah, on principle I don't see a distinction to the veracity of reports whether it's done to police or publicly. In some ways, it can be argued that airing it publicly takes a lot more courage and opens you up to a lot more risk (like harassment, etc.) A lot of the women who did this in the past years were ultimately vindicated. 

The only advantage to putting it out there publicly, is it puts the person/company being accused on the defensive. So if it's a known problem *coughUbisoft*cough*Activision*cough* then the media will do the rest of the investigation if they smell blood.

 

Going back to the G*merG*te, there was even more of this stuff coming out of the woodwork, and the #metoo was the following year.

 

I'd say that the majority of the complaints held water when it was "older man, younger women" situation. Less so when it was same-sex, or politically motivated.

 

That also gets into the weeds about AI deepfakes. It is now possible to "fake" evidence if you really want to ruin someone, and without everyone having alibies for claims, it's now easy to destroy people who are single or work alone.

 

21 minutes ago, Emperor Anime said:

I'm not handwaving anything away. I'm saying that with the statistics we have, false reports are a rare occurrence overall.

 

It's why the narrative has shifted to "believing women" because overall, there's merit to most allegations.

 

There's always merit to an accusation if the accusation is is against someone that had direct power over the person.

 

Usually the meritless claims are those that occur from OUTSIDE the company, eg at conventions or business events, where maybe photos exist, but it's impossible to get them because they're on someone's phone of a competitor or something.

[yoc]

2 minutes ago, Reclus said:

I'm not sure what your argument here is. Court. Law. Verdict. You gave experienced it so the system does work. I don't want to get into if her allegations are criminal or civil. The law literally says it can be both.

OJ Simpson is an example of the same percentages that people here don't take into account. A small but real number that things are not what they appear to be.

Also a better example would be Amber Heard. Went from everyone believed her to a literal meme. 

 

I'm no judge or court so I don't have (and rightfully so) to follow their standards. That's the meat of it imo.

[Reclus]

17 minutes ago, digitalscream said:

Yes, a lot of noise - which has caused the company to investigate, which they didn't do when she originally made the complaints through the proper channels. That's a win, is it not? The Twitter thread has forced them to do the thing that she's accused them of not doing in the first place, which is what led directly to her quitting her "dream job".

 

As far as I can tell, Canadian law provides criminal statutes regarding threats and violence in the workplace, but guidance is to go through standard HR or union procedures for disputes like the ones Madison listed. It's not a matter of trust in the police, it's a matter of their own guidelines and prioritisation relative to all of the other crimes they have to deal with; even if they took this on, it'd be low priority. That's basically a summary of all the oblique references to the process I've found on the Canadian government sites; the fact that it's so difficult to find actual concrete information on this speaks volumes about how they'd prioritise it (or how sleep-deprived I am, if you want to go and look for yourself).

 

And yes, if LMG was 100% sure that there's actual proof that these things didn't happen, or 100% sure that no proof or witnesses will ever pop up corroborating even one of her claims, they could definitely sue her into oblivion. There would be almost nothing to gain from it, though - taking her to court and winning will de-facto mean she's unemployable so there's no chance of any financial reparations, and if the only goal is to get her to take down the Twitter thread then there are much, much cheaper ways to do it which don't constitute anywhere near as much of a PR own goal.

Yes. They did investigate.. FFS don't make me defend them. The entire HR meeting was a result of the investigation made by HR  after her departure. 

Also you have found the information even when it's based on this thread. The entire point here is that there needs to be evidence. Not just your or LMG or Maddie's words.

The point of suing for defamation is to prove to your stake holders and investors that you are clean beyond any doubt and you will not allow anyone to just throw accusations at you. This isn't just about the money you can win in court. This is money that you might loose due to investors literally asking why haven't you sued this person if you are innocent? 

 

[Reclus]

6 minutes ago, Emperor Anime said:

I made my argument really clear. Broader society doesn't operate by the standards of criminal law. lol. There is no obligation for anyone outside of a criminal trial to apply the standards of "beyond a reasonable doubt".

 

My point with OJ Simpson is that he was found not guilty, meaning his guilt wasn't proved beyond a reasonable doubt according to his jury, but in the court of public opinion he was guilty and stayed guilty and was subject to all kinds of civil proceedings. The rest of the world doesn't need to abide by that standard, is the point. Nor do they.

 

 

 

 

Still don't get how does this apply here?

Her allegations can be criminal and if it was me or a member of my family I would insist on it. And again, the law recognises that and allows it. The rest of the world? What does that have to do with anything?

[Reclus]

21 minutes ago, buttpoop said:

Okay, let's talk about what that looks like.

 

She goes to the police with no physical evidence. The police will not charge them. Nothing happens. 

 

Then what?

Edit:

What will the police do? Google what happens if an assault occurs with no evidence.

You mean like Jussie Smollie?

Also I listened to your advice

[Reclus]

26 minutes ago, Electricity Taster said:

 

On paper, yes. But we've "known" Linus for years. He's always been a decent person and I think what has happened is just a matter of boundaries slowly being pushed and him not noticing.

I'm going to make some predictions based on wise experience. This is not what I want to happen, but what I believe will happen assuming no more fires break out:

-The Madison allegations will be investigated and the people responsible will be fired. Yvonne will be the one to explain this on camera.
-LMG will offer to buy out Billet.
-The WAN show becomes separate from LTT/Floatplane. The LMG CEO will write a weekly newsletter that gets posted on the forums and read on the WAN show.
-New procedures will be designed to enable blind testing at the LTT labs.
-The turd-shaped, brown Noctua screwdriver gets cancelled.
-A new video gets uploaded to Linus Cat Tips in exactly 9 days.
-The storm will blow over in under a month (back to school amnesia). LTT store revenue will drop 33% during this period and then return to normal.
-In the coming years, LMG will hire 40% more women (this is what Hollywood did after #MeToo).

Hmmm. 

I think this is a nice game to play. 

What will happen after this is over?

 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Electricity Taster said:

 

On paper, yes. But we've "known" Linus for years. He's always been a decent person and I think what has happened is just a matter of boundaries slowly being pushed and him not noticing.

I'm going to make some predictions based on wise experience. This is not what I want to happen, but what I believe will happen assuming no more fires break out:

-The Madison allegations will be investigated and the people responsible will be fired. Yvonne will be the one to explain this on camera.
-LMG will offer to buy out Billet.
-The WAN show becomes separate from LTT/Floatplane. The LMG CEO will write a weekly newsletter that gets posted on the forums and read on the WAN show.
-New procedures will be designed to enable blind testing at the LTT labs.
-The turd-shaped, brown Noctua screwdriver gets cancelled.
-A new video gets uploaded to Linus Cat Tips in exactly 9 days.
-The storm will blow over in under a month (back to school amnesia). LTT store revenue will drop 33% during this period and then return to normal.
-In the coming years, LMG will hire 40% more women (this is what Hollywood did after #MeToo).

Interesting.   

 

Here's what I believe will happen:

 

- The Madison allegations will be investigated.   The third party investigators will find serious problems with LTT's policies, procedures and training around harassment and have numerous recommendations on how to improve.    Nothing will be said about Madison's specific complaints.

- Linus will release a (non-monetized) video apologizing and promising to do better (and promoting the new LTT screwdriver)

- Linus will also attempt to deflect and blame things on company growth or his intense drive or changes to the company or other things to make it "not really his fault"

- The community will largely forget about the issue and move on

- Terren will implement the recommendations and LTT staff will see a marked reduction in awful behaviour

- Certain LTT staff will be pushed out.   The departure will appear consensual, but it won't be.

- Gender ratios at LMG will improve drastically

 

Sorry, I'm old and jaded.   I don't trust any corporation to self-investigate.   I strongly suspect this third party will be required by contract to keep their findings secret.   Even if/when they find support for Madison's claims, I suspect it will be up to LTT whether it is disclosed it or not.   I'm guessing "not".

Also, just to be clear...few of us "know" Linus at all.  We "know" a character he plays on YouTube.  

 

Unless you know him personally/professionally, you have no way of judging whether he is a decent person or not. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Electricity Taster]

9 minutes ago, Mutex01 said:

Unless you know him personally/professionally, you have no way of judging whether he is a decent person or not. 

True. He may be worse than he seems, he may be better than he seems.

[Reclus]

1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

https://www.dexerto.com/tech/xqc-leaks-conversation-with-linus-amid-ltt-fallout-it-was-you-now-its-me-2253472/

 

What the actual fuck 

If Xqc isn't talking out of his a** then the new CEO and Yvonne need to just put Linus in a room with no internet and some flowers to water. And keep him there until further notice... Jesus Christ Linus. You are looking for advice there?? I really am loosing any hope for you. I really hope this is just BS.

[JoshuaScholar]

It's a reflection of people's values.

 

Companies suck, they exist to make their officers rich.  The more successful you are, the better you must have been at exploiting people.

 

So LMG is as bad as you'd expect a North American company to be, and has the sexual harassment and somewhat more blatant abuse problems you get at small companies run by non-professional techies.

 

So much for the fantasy!

 

Unionize the continent so that that workers have some power to counteract the greed and power trips of their bosses and so that their working conditions can be improved.

That's the solution.  And don't expect people to have bucked the trend and miraculously have better values than their neighbors.  Linus is a pretty thoughtful guy, but it turned out that his values when it came to his employees weren't any better than average.  It's really not a surprise.

 

[Kisai]

28 minutes ago, Reclus said:

If Xqc isn't talking out of his a** then the new CEO and Yvonne need to just put Linus in a room with no internet and some flowers to water. And keep him there until further notice... Jesus Christ Linus. You are looking for advice there?? I really am loosing any hope for you. I really hope this is just BS.

xQc is a very unreliable narrator.

 

This is a guy who does not admit fault, constantly deflects criticism, and people keep watching him. Then again, the impression I've been given multiple times is that people mostly hate-watch xQc. It's a twitch culture thing where either you watch someone because you love them, and throw money at them, or you watch them because they "suck" and you're actually waiting for an opportunity to embarrass them further by taking the tantrum clips to reddit.

 

Either way THAT is a nothingburger. It's only news because xQc is that kind of bad friend.

[JoshuaScholar]

2 minutes ago, Kisai said:

xQc is a very unreliable narrator.

 

This is a guy who does not admit fault, constantly deflects criticism, and people keep watching him. Then again, the impression I've been given multiple times is that people mostly hate-watch xQc. It's a twitch culture thing where either you watch someone because you love them, and throw money at them, or you watch them because they "suck" and you're actually waiting for an opportunity to embarrass them further by taking the tantrum clips to reddit.

 

Either way THAT is a nothingburger. It's only news because xQc is that kind of bad friend.

Could you summarize xQc so that I don't have to watch his damn stream?

[Ferkner]

14 minutes ago, JoshuaScholar said:

It's a reflection of people's values.

 

Companies suck, they exist to make their officers rich.  The more successful you are, the better you must have been at exploiting people.

 

So LMG is as bad as you'd expect a North American company to be, and has the sexual harassment and somewhat more blatant abuse problems you get at small companies run by non-professional techies.

 

So much for the fantasy!

 

Unionize the continent so that that workers have some power to counteract the greed and power trips of their bosses and so that their working conditions can be improved.

That's the solution.  And don't expect people to have bucked the trend and miraculously have better values than their neighbors.  Linus is a pretty thoughtful guy, but it turned out that his values when it came to his employees weren't any better than average.  It's really not a surprise.

 

The problem is unions are greedy pigs. Once they get the environment and conditions settled they have nothing else to contribute so they start reaching for greedy things like even more pay, more time off, more this more that, just to justify their continued existence. 

 

Unions are not always the solution. 

[schwarzerrogen]

6 minutes ago, JoshuaScholar said:

Could you summarize xQc so that I don't have to watch his damn stream?

Low-rent edgelord that screeches a lot and has a legion of fans who think he's some kind of whimsical god like Kefka.

[JoshuaScholar]

Just now, Ferkner said:

The problem is unions are greedy pigs. Once they get the environment and conditions settled they have nothing else to contribute so they start reaching for greedy things like even more pay, more time off, more this more that, just to justify their continued existence. 

 

Unions are not always the solution. 

Yes, they make the rich people who don't do the work SUFFER too much by making the lives of the actual workers TOO GOOD.  Oh no!  You're right, we should stop wanting to improve conditions of the lives of the vast majority!

 

After all, the last thing we should want is for the majority of people to experience having time and money!

[schwarzerrogen]

3 minutes ago, Ferkner said:

The problem is unions are greedy pigs. Once they get the environment and conditions settled they have nothing else to contribute so they start reaching for greedy things like even more pay, more time off, more this more that, just to justify their continued existence. 

 

Unions are not always the solution. 

The funniest part about the 'THEY SHOULD UNIONIZE' calls is... unions don't just happen overnight. It takes a long time for a union to fully form, be mandated, be legally recognized, and function. Like 18 month turnaround, unless they can join SAG or the writer's guild or something.

[ProbablyNotFidel]

2 minutes ago, schwarzerrogen said:

Low-rent edgelord that screeches a lot and has a legion of fans who think he's some kind of whimsical god like Kefka.

Haha, I was going to say in my limited time seeing a stream of his it reminded me of the adult personification of screeching lobby kids.