Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

3 hours ago, BigFatTeddy said:

Sir, with all due respect, but "approaching the zero error rate as best as you possibly can" is simply not zero-error-rate. It's kinda in the name that if you do something as "best as you can"... you don't have a zero-error-rate.

 

And at no point it did occur to you that this would be a fundamental difference to a media-producing company where a "good enough" approach keeps the ball rolling? No? Cool. Apples to oranges, but everything's kind of an animal, right?

 

I wasn't referring to quality monitoring, dude. You just put a word in there.

 

I can guarantee you that you would not enjoy working with me, that is very much correct, Sir. Maybe not because of the reasons you point out, but whatever floats your boat, man, whatever floats your boat. Not every environment is populated by your high-profile, self-sustaining population, comrade, many times you have to run a very very tight ship, or else people will not be able to make a living. Might sound unpopular, but businesses have to make an earning and people have to sometimes do shit they don't like to do or become sloppy about without some very very strict rules. Friggin' life of the mere mortals, obviously this is totally different up there in space-tech.

Ok, so you're just a cheap troll that doesn't actually read what people say and then takes it out of context.

But it's kind of hilarious that you present this as a good way to run a company, well knowing there's another thread on the same forum that heavily focusses on mental health in the workplace. Odds are you even posted in it, which would be even funnier. But you're just wrong and I sincerely hope you're never in a position where you lead or coordinate people, because that sort of mindset is what causes people to stop caring. And hey, my dreamy non-realistic style is so ineffective that some of my previous employers are trying to get me back. So I must be so awful at project coordination.

[Thaldor]

5 minutes ago, hmfaysal said:

I am quite happy that LTT did not waste more of the viewers or their time working with it. Its entertainment, but still there still is the decency to save a little bit of someones time, so that we can leave this video and get on tapping on one of Steve's videos just before we fall asleep. 

Then Linus can forget the part of making Lab anything more than him trying to sound more scientific.

If he is willing to post incorrect testing as proof of his conclusions then that's it, we should NEVER believe any data coming from the LTT Labs to be correct and trustful because we cannot TRUST there wasn't a problem that Linus decided to leave because he didn't see it change anything.

[BigFatTeddy]

22 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

And IIRC Billet does have a working webpage, as for numbers the whole reason they wanted more numbers is why they sent it in to LTT.

I find it weird for people to be shifting the blame onto Billet when they didn't do anything wrong here, and the whole f^%$ up is on LMG/LTT on not sending it back then auctioning it off.

I'm not blaming Billet, the entire fuckup is on LMG. What I'm saying is that it might have been unwise for Billet to START with LTT. It doesn't feel like they got a lot of coverage in the past by anybody and they also are definitely not a large company. Also, if you're into the enthusiast market, why not go to someone serving that market? I mean, honestly, who does think that LTT really does serious reviews? That might change, it might not change, but right now? I mean... seriously?

 

So what I'm questioning is the wisdom of their decision, I'm not putting any blame on them for the bullshit LTT did.

 

22 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

And I hope the attention they're getting is positive, I'd like to see another reviewer with some expertise with water cooling give them a more appropriate and fair review.

I agree on that. Even though I don't see the point in what they do, their bespoke watercooling thing might have a niche. Or not. This is the time to find out. Let's hope they are able to transform that energy into something.

[hmfaysal]

Also I am really excited for the coming months, I am waiting to see how PC parts manufacturers and sponsors show their love to GN. That will be fantastic to see. 

[Taylor Ford]

17 minutes ago, travisjunky said:

His most popular videos are mostly trashing on products or other companies. This is his sauce that gets him views. He made some points but let’s not pretend he doesn’t have something to gain, he could have given LTT the same opportunity to correct the mistakes like he gave other companies. This felt personal. 

The same can be said for any other Ytbers, even Linus has 'trashed' products and/or companies, more famously, Nvidia for their GPUs, Secret Shoppers etc. It IS the sauce that gets views, and being on YT is competing for attention in itself. Linus's lab tour during the LTX has put GN and Hardware Unbox on the table regarding their testing methods as well, has LTT consulted Steve and Hardware Unbox before making the claim? Answer is No. 

[BigFatTeddy]

Just now, hmfaysal said:

Also I am really excited for the coming months, I am waiting to see how PC parts manufacturers and sponsors show their love to GN. That will be fantastic to see. 

Don't get me wrong, but why on earth would any manufacturer love GN more (or less) for what they did? Integrity? Are you kidding me? In the PC-parts market? Seriously?

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

And Gamers Nexus their approach definitely has no stifling effect on other people, you definitely don't see multiple instances of this left and right:

(Source: https://www.facebook.com/Mnpctech/posts/pfbid0h4sJ2rVGbwf3y4TLV2zGHtN3neRqHXNvo9Ujd6KX2grAaTLBaoTwVWh3ab9zgWKsl )

 

[eece_ret]

3 minutes ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

They could have refused to return it, would sound like jerks, but that was the original terms.

However, they literally agreed to return it. 

 

And yes, when there is a conflict between small and big guys, the small guys are the ones usually screwed up, so it is only natural to pick their side until more info is available. In this case, it just confirmed they were in the right. 

Yeah and they literally F**ked up, organically, not maliciously.  

 

As the two agreed for it to be returned (later), yes LMG bears that responsibility, of course they do.  But to feign mortal wounds over something that started off to not be seen again, is disingenuous at best. 

[hmfaysal]

1 minute ago, Thaldor said:

Then Linus can forget the part of making Lab anything more than him trying to sound more scientific.

If he is willing to post incorrect testing as proof of his conclusions then that's it, we should NEVER believe any data coming from the LTT Labs to be correct and trustful because we cannot TRUST there wasn't a problem that Linus decided to leave because he didn't see it change anything.

Yeah, its just supposed to be fun. The way we watch Discovery Science channels and stuff. I have one advice for everyone, always take stuff on the internet with a grain of salt, including this comment

[Godiwa]

20 minutes ago, eece_ret said:

How F***ked is it when the original agreement had LMG keeping the cooler.  It was only AFTER the review that they requested it back.  All inferences of lost time, money, IP, etc encurred by Billet Labs must be weighed against the fact that when they first shipped it, their stated intention, was to never see it again.

To shit the bed afterwards and demand it back cause you didn't get the exposure you wanted paints them as fairly disingenuous at best.

Now they get a shit ton of exposure and sympathy from teh community and $'s from LTT.  Its pretty shitty and transparent and something that REALLY should have been taken care of between them and LTT.  This is more like airing relationship details on reddit, just unnecessary.

Reporting on quality of data etc, fair game and worthy of reporting, even if way over hyped  

really? they made a deal... LMG makes a video/review about the product and if they do they could keep it...

they totally butch it and pee on the product for no reason because they are imbecils using wrong gpu and then trash talk it... so they broke the agreement... of course they ask for it back... which LMG agreed to... and then poof sold it... oh wait "auctioned it"...

"do job => get paid"
"break deal => no pay"

[hmfaysal]

2 minutes ago, BigFatTeddy said:

I'm not blaming Billet, the entire fuckup is on LMG. What I'm saying is that it might have been unwise for Billet to START with LTT. It doesn't feel like they got a lot of coverage in the past by anybody and they also are definitely not a large company. Also, if you're into the enthusiast market, why not go to someone serving that market? I mean, honestly, who does think that LTT really does serious reviews? That might change, it might not change, but right now? I mean... seriously?

 

So what I'm questioning is the wisdom of their decision, I'm not putting any blame on them for the bullshit LTT did.

 

I agree on that. Even though I don't see the point in what they do, their bespoke watercooling thing might have a niche. Or not. This is the time to find out. Let's hope they are able to transform that energy into something.

Large? Its two guys with fusion 360 and a 3rd party machine shop (possibly is shenzen), with a materials scientist complex

[Taylor Ford]

25 minutes ago, hmfaysal said:

Ah, so billet labs shot for the moon? Did they try to send their stuff to smaller review channels that do thorough research? ie GN? If no, why not?

Maybe that was next in their plan? If LTT hasn't delayed sending back and eventually lost their prototype? 

[noob0saur]

15 minutes ago, eece_ret said:

Im not defending it, LMG screwed up, their inventory mgmt practices appear to be fairly shoddy.  Which is more than obvious in MANY videos.  

The aspect I am discussing are people like yourself bending over backwards to paint Billet Labs as some poor deprived company being trounced by the evil empire.  People need to get over themselves and understand the inferred harm here is WAAAAAY overblown and this situation should never have been public just like personal disputes.

Totally agree, especially after seing in the LTT video & noticing that at first Billet Labs OFFERED the product.

 

Here's a copy/paste of my comment on the youtube video:

 

13:18 & here we are, Billet Labs never said to G.N that they've said at any point of time to LTT that they can keep the prototype & that's a shady maneuver for me, they're trying to play the victims because they've probably seen that as an opportunity to get a large amount of money here (LMG is a rich corpo, lets take our bag of cash) i've been thinking about that "possibility" when i heard about the case but now i'm sure while reading the mail to Colton, the guys got upset after the review & changed their mind & saw an opportunity for a revenge (you don't like our product, you gonna pay) it doesn't matter what the person is going to do with something when you OFFER IT, silent auction for charity, give it to a friend, throw it in the trash bin, YOU GAVE IT! in French they say: Donner c'est donner, reprendre c'est voler= Giving is GIVING, retake is stealing.

 

Again, as my first comment on this thread, i will not argue with the cancel culture fans & drama people, all i do in my comments is bringing facts without (even if people think the opposite) taking a side, my side is what i believe to be the truth based on FACTS not hearsay or some bs like this.

[BigFatTeddy]

26 minutes ago, Taylor Ford said:

And yes, they got attention, but I won't say it's the kind of attention they wanted in the first place. They have so far, imo, been fairly modest and transparent in their response.  

I'm pretty sure they're just overwhelmed by what's happening. To them. With the entire situation. And they know for sure that the entire LTT-hate-mob is just waiting for the wrong word. Which is a totally different ballgame for that shop over there. If they get doxxed, their life is... fucked up. They're in the middle of a nuclear war and were just trying to get a review. What else would you do?

[hmfaysal]

3 minutes ago, BigFatTeddy said:

Don't get me wrong, but why on earth would any manufacturer love GN more (or less) for what they did? Integrity? Are you kidding me? In the PC-parts market? Seriously?

Well, Steve should have thought about that. But toodles

[Taylor Ford]

Just now, Taylor Ford said:

Maybe that was next in their plan? If LTT hasn't delayed sending back and eventually lost their prototype? If you are a small company and you have 2 choices, a channel with 15 million subs and another with 2 million subs and both agreed to review your product, who would you pick? 

 

[hmfaysal]

2 minutes ago, Taylor Ford said:

Maybe that was next in their plan? If LTT hasn't delayed sending back and eventually lost their prototype? 

They should have planned better, knowing their cash strapped status. Well mistakes made, lessons learned. 

Lessons are usually exponentially expensive for smaller parties 

[WallacEngineering]

8 minutes ago, hmfaysal said:

I just want to make things clearer for us, the normal people, normies. That's why I was asking about Steve, members here didn't really like that much. I don't understand. Does he have another job as far as we know apart from this GN thing? Chief editor or something. IDK

Isn't he the business owner? Like doesn't he own GN? So why isn't profit a matter to him? Like does he run colombian stuff on the side? Whats the deal?

Why isn't he bothered by a behemoth 8 times his size investing in a lab? Is he immune? Like what is he vaxxed with?

These are all legit questions. But as you mentioned, you are tired and done repeating. But I would like someone else to fill in. I am just curious. If he is running colombian stuff, I want some too

Oh ya, of course he cares about profits, but he has said plenty of times in the past that he doesn't want to ever be the size of LMG.

 

As long as it pays the bills and everyone on his team lives comfortably, he doesn't really care about anything beyond that.

 

So in other words while he wouldn't mind some growth here and there, he isn't actually interested in becoming a multi-million dollar company like LMG.

 

Thats why he doesn't consider himself direct competition with LMG. LMG is more entertaining while GN is purely factual and doesn't give the slightest damn about being entertaining. Any entertainment had at GN is purely a side-effect lol.

[BigFatTeddy]

2 minutes ago, hmfaysal said:

Large? Its two guys with fusion 360 and a 3rd party machine shop (possibly is shenzen), with a materials scientist complex

This is the UK in 2023. They probably have a lathe, a pipe-cutter and a milling machine sitting in a shop somewhere in London. And one dude doing the machining after hours when getting home from his real job. Everybody is struggling right now in the UK, no need for Shenzhen.

[Forbidden Wafer]

4 minutes ago, eece_ret said:

 But to feign mortal wounds over something that started off to not be seen again, is disingenuous at best. 

Saying that their product is trash without even testing it properly could have made the very few potential buyers to give up due to the lackluster performance.

Since they are on a niche market, that indeed is the type of stuff that can kill a company.

[Blademaster91]

3 minutes ago, BigFatTeddy said:

I'm not blaming Billet, the entire fuckup is on LMG. What I'm saying is that it might have been unwise for Billet to START with LTT. It doesn't feel like they got a lot of coverage in the past by anybody and they also are definitely not a large company. Also, if you're into the enthusiast market, why not go to someone serving that market? I mean, honestly, who does think that LTT really does serious reviews? That might change, it might not change, but right now? I mean... seriously?

 

So what I'm questioning is the wisdom of their decision, I'm not putting any blame on them for the bullshit LTT did.

I think it might have been better to send the block to someone like Jayztwocents or Der8auer, both of them do enthusiast level water cooling videos, though I can understand why they chose LTT because it's going to be the easiest way to get attention on a product, probably not the attention Billet wanted after Linus said it was crap and refused saying it would've cost them too much to review again, until GN highlighted the issue.

3 minutes ago, BigFatTeddy said:

I agree on that. Even though I don't see the point in what they do, their bespoke watercooling thing might have a niche. Or not. This is the time to find out. Let's hope they are able to transform that energy into something.

I'm not into water cooling, I prefer air cooling myself because its more simple with less maintenance, though I still like seeing water cooled builds sometimes, and I'd defiantly like to see Billet labs given another review.

[hmfaysal]

3 minutes ago, Taylor Ford said:

 

15 mils definitely

Also I would be sad when they piss on my poor engineering skills, and go back to free blender tutorials and get myself enrolled in an online university for materials science courses. 

But thats just me

[hmfaysal]

2 minutes ago, WallacEngineering said:

Oh ya, of course he cares about profits, but he has said plenty of times in the past that he doesn't want to ever be the size of LMG.

 

As long as it pays the bills and everyone on his team lives comfortably, he doesn't really care about anything beyond that.

 

So in other words while he wouldn't mind some growth here and there, he isn't actually interested in becoming a multi-million dollar company like LMG.

 

Thats why he doesn't consider himself direct competition with LMG. LMG is more entertaining while GN is purely factual and doesn't give the slightest damn about being entertaining. Any entertainment had at GN is purely a side-effect lol.

Well, but he made a direct hit on LMG. Cool, I like your point.

[BigFatTeddy]

11 minutes ago, ImorallySourcedElectrons said:

But it's kind of hilarious that you present this as a good way to run a company, well knowing there's another thread on the same forum that heavily focusses on mental health in the workplace. Odds are you even posted in it, which would be even funnier. But you're just wrong and I sincerely hope you're never in a position where you lead or coordinate people, because that sort of mindset is what causes people to stop caring. And hey, my dreamy non-realistic style is so ineffective that some of my previous employers are trying to get me back. So I must be so awful at project coordination.

No worries, I have my carreer and our paths will never cross. It's amusing to me that you cannot even fathom the possibility of other styles than yours to lead or manage a team, and yet to claim to be great in leading. What a weird stance.

[hmfaysal]

3 minutes ago, BigFatTeddy said:

This is the UK in 2023. They probably have a lathe, a pipe-cutter and a milling machine sitting in a shop somewhere in London. And one dude doing the machining after hours when getting home from his real job. Everybody is struggling right now in the UK, no need for Shenzhen.

No, their materials look really close to whats being offered at JLCPCBs machining services. Also the 2k pounds number closely resemble the price in Shenzen, not in London, even just for the materials and machining alone. 

I try to be careful with this kind of stuff. I like to know where things are made, they fascinate me.