Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Empyreal]

Linus should really take his own advice:

 

 

[filpo]

1 minute ago, stylemessiah said:

Now its ethics, and they cost nothing.....

if they would've cost something it would have been like EA. Behind a paywall

[the9thdude]

2 minutes ago, rcmaehl said:

Not sure where Kong is getting their numbers (20k vs 21k ???)

 

 

I think they're referring to the recent LTT microphone video. Comments on there are putting LTT on blast.

[Loopers]

2 minutes ago, Godiwa said:

fanboi'ism that they can't take critique

Even Linus himself says people like that are weird. He doesn't understand it and in the same breath some time ago mentioned something about holding him accountable when he fucks up. The number of people going after Steve is kinda wild and you should never fanboi over any creator.

I support both of them and I hope both of them continue to call out each others bullshit. I said it earlier and I'll say it again, labs was a mistake and made LMG too corporate. Smaller channels with 1/100th the money doing more. Linus needs to finally watch those videos of his staff talking about him and what they'd like to see done or changed. It's super important to the future of LMG.

[Biohazard777]

3 minutes ago, rcmaehl said:

Not sure where vong is getting their numbers (20k vs 21k ???)

 

 

Not the GN video.
He is referring to a video released by LTT shortly after GN video:

21k likes & 22k dislikes right now.

Review bombing, but on YT.

[Walt Raleigh]

17 hours ago, Tau_1s said:

hopefully LMG goes bankrupt

Yikes, that's exactly the kind of reaction we should avoid, let's not be the dumb loud minority 

[Grendelw]

I remember the really early content linus put out on LTT and NCIX and he seemed like a normal nerd? Now he has this big company he has an ego/napoleon complex the size of a planet.

 

He just became a person completely incapable of self reflection, yikes.

[JackShorenstein]

17 hours ago, xzvf said:

Data issues aside; @LinusTech Regarding the Billet Labs situation, could you please publicly state and justify the monetary compensation paid out to Billet Labs for the “loss” of their prototype? What steps are you taking to prevent such issues in the future?

I was thinking the same thing... I doubt that he will release that publicly, even though he really should release it to regain the trust of the LTT community. Also, I don't think LMG will pay Billet Labs since they did not even send back their prototype and possibly put them out of business by the winner of the auction maybe being a competitor that will copy their design!

[MonsterDOng]

17 hours ago, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

You cheated, not only the game, but yourself. You didn't grow. You didn't improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It's sad that you don't know the difference.

[King Podge]

Cynicism is great… but when cynicism replaces context in your logic equation, you get a 44 minute video without seeking comment from the subject…. 

[joaopt]

4 minutes ago, MrSuperb said:

of course it was about that. And even if LTT has a big problem, why is GN (a competitor) the hero to call it out? Right to make money out of it, with the stupid argument that the video isn’t monetized.

 

It is on you to criticize Linus in a very powerful way. Just stop watching his videos and buying his merch.

 

why can't a competitor criticise you? that seems absurd

[yazzmatazz]

17 hours ago, LinusTech said:

If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it...

@LinusTech This statement is what bothers me the most about your response and is essentially gaslighting the community.

 

I'm still a relatively new follower and only been following your channels for about a year now. I occasionally tune in to the WAN show and have always admired your transparency and honesty when dealing with controversies. However, the GN video has made me pause my subscriptions and has prompted me to reflect on how I consume media on youtube and moving forward I plan on focusing on quality content only. Hopefully you will listen to your team's feedback and also focus more on quality over quantity. I know you will eventually do the right thing, I just hope you don't wait too long and alienate even more of your community.

[filpo]

100 pages! 

 

Wait why am I happy

[Godiwa]

Just now, Loopers said:

Even Linus himself says people like that are weird. He doesn't understand it and in the same breath some time ago mentioned something about holding him accountable when he fucks up. The number of people going after Steve is kinda wild and you should never fanboi over any creator.

I support both of them and I hope both of them continue to call out each others bullshit. I said it earlier and I'll say it again, labs was a mistake and made LMG too corporate. Smaller channels with 1/100th the money doing more. Linus needs to finally watch those videos of his staff talking about him and what they'd like to see done or changed. It's super important to the future of LMG.

exactly, I watch both... but I treat them as way different channels because what they put on the table is very different... one fools around and make funnies... while also claiming to want to be serious (another funny?) and the other works very hard to improve his already good reviews and works to fight for the consumers when the producers of hardware screws people over (Intel Review?, Asus bs? msi bs? case on fire? exploding psu? and now LTT) and I prolly forgot a few too but that isn't essentiel the point of what he works for is... and that they blatantly ignore what is actually said in the GN video and then rage on Steve is just stoopid... and yes even Linus said to never fanboi because it is lame...

both channels have good stuff... both channels have boring stuff etc. etc. watch what you like, skip what you don't like but hold BOTH accountable for the stuff they post... that is what I do and what ppl really should do

[joaopt]

Just now, King Podge said:

Cynicism is great… but when cynicism replaces context in your logic equation, you get a 44 minute video without seeking comment from the subject…. 

 

what comment was needed? to explain away all the mistakes, errors, killing the employees with insane workloads, put profit in front of accuracy, failing to apologise when needed, etc...

 

this was an expose, a very good one. Linus can comment, and btw he decided not way, hoping it goes away, guess what it didn't.

[coonwhiz]

7 minutes ago, MrSuperb said:

And even if LTT has a big problem, why is GN (a competitor) the hero to call it out? Right to make money out of it, with the stupid argument that the video isn’t monetized.

How is GN making money off of it? The video isn't monetized, there's no sponsor, they don't have a link to their store in the description or anywhere in the video. When they call out MSI or NewEgg, they've still put their own links in the video.

[Navii]

17 hours ago, LinusTech said:

There won't be a big WAN Show segment about this or anything. Most of what I have to say, I've already said, and I've done so privately.

To Steve, I expressed my disappointment that he didn't go through proper journalistic practices in creating this piece. He has my email and number (along with numerous other members of our team) and could have asked me for context that may have proven to be valuable (like the fact that we didn't 'sell' the monoblock, but rather auctioned it for charity due to a miscommunication... AND the fact that while we haven't sent payment yet, we have already agreed to compensate Billet Labs for the cost of their prototype). There are other issues, but I've told him that I won't be drawn into a public sniping match over this and that I'll be continuing to move forward in good faith as part of 'Team Media'. When/if he's ready to do so again I'll be ready.

To my team (and my CEO's team, but realistically I was at the helm for all of these errors, so I need to own it), I stressed the importance of diligence in our work because there are so many eyes on us. We are going through some growing pains - we've been very public about them in the interest of transparency - and it's clear we have some work to do on internal processes and communication. We have already been doing a lot of work internally to clean up our processes, but these things take time. Rome wasn't built in a day, but that's no excuse for sloppiness.

Now, for my community, all I can say is the same things I always say. We know that we're not perfect. We wear our imperfection on our sleeves in the interest of ensuring that we stay accountable to you. But it's sad and unfortunate when this transparency gets warped into a bad thing. The Labs team is hard at work hard creating processes and tools to generate data that will benefit all consumers - a work in progress that is very much not done and that we've communicated needs to be treated as such. Do we have notes under some videos? Yes. Is it because we are striving for transparency/improvement? Yeah... What we're doing hasn't been in many years, if ever.. and we would make a much larger correction if the circumstances merited it. Listing the wrong amount of cache on a table for a CPU review is sloppy, but given that our conclusions are drawn based on our testing, not the spec sheet, it doesn't materially change the recommendation. That doesn't mean these things don't matter. We've set KPIs for our writing/labs team around accuracy, and we are continually installing new checks and balances to ensure that things continue to get better. If you haven't seen the improvement, frankly I wonder if you're really looking for it... The thoroughness that we managed on our last handful of GPU videos is getting really incredible given the limited time we have for these embargoes. I'm REALLY excited about what the future will hold.

 

With all of that said, I still disagree that the Billet Labs video (not the situation with the return, which I've already addressed above) is an 'accuracy' issue. It's more like I just read the room wrong. We COULD have re-tested it with perfect accuracy, but to do so PROPERLY - accounting for which cases it could be installed in (none) and which radiators it would be plumbed with (again... mystery) would have been impossible... and also didn't affect the conclusion of the video... OR SO I THOUGHT...

 

I wanted to evaluate it as a product, and as a product, IF it could manage to compete with the temperatures of the highest end blocks on the planet, it still wouldn't make sense to buy... so from my point of view, re-testing it and finding out that yes, it did in fact run cooler made no difference to the conclusion, so it didn't really make a difference.

 

Adam and I were talking about this today. He advocated for re-testing it regardless of how non-viable it was as a product at the time and I think he expressed really well today why it mattered. It was like making a video about a supercar. It doesn't mater if no one watching will buy it. They just wanna see it rip.  I missed that, but it wasn't because I didn't care about the consumer.. it was because I was so focused on how this product impacted a potential buyer. Either way, clearly my bad, but my intention was never to harm Billet Labs. I specifically called out their incredible machining skills because I wanted to see them create something with a viable market for it and was hoping others would appreciate the fineness of the craftsmanship even if the product was impractical. I still hope they move forward building something else because they obviously have talent and I've watched countless niche water cooling vendors come and go. It's an astonishingly unforgiving market.

 

Either way, I'm sorry I got the community's priorities mixed-up on this one, and that we didn't show the Billet in the best light. Our intention wasn't to hurt anyone. We wanted no one to buy it (because it's an egregious waste of money no matter what temps it runs at) and we wanted Billet to make something marketable (so they can, y'know, eat).

 

With all of this in mind, it saddens me how quickly the pitchforks were raised over this. It also comes across a touch hypocritical when some basic due diligence could have helped clarify much of it. I have a LONG history of meeting issues head on and I've never been afraid to answer questions, which lands me in hot water regularly, but helps keep me in tune with my peers and with the community. The only reason I can think of not to ask me is because my honest response might be inconvenient. 

 

We can test that... with this post. Will the "It was a mistake (a bad one, but a mistake) and they're taking care of it" reality manage to have the same reach? Let's see if anyone actually wants to know what happened. I hope so, but it's been disheartening seeing how many people were willing to jump on us here. Believe it or not, I'm a real person and so is the rest of my team. We are trying our best, and if what we were doing was easy, everyone would do it. Today sucks.

 

Thanks for reading this.

Disappointed in you for deflecting and saying you are "dissapointed" in Steve for pointing out LTT's obvious massive mistakes. GN did nothing wrong here but expose your guys sloppiness. You're only making public statements about how bad it is now for damage control and same with billet labs. You should be proud of your team but at the same time you shouldn't be saying people have unethical journalistic practices because you got called out with factual information. Unsubbed, was getting annoying having 6 product placements in my sub box a week.

[RichardBirch]

The reality of the situation at this stage is that the GN video has created enough of a stink that someone from LTT needs to comment on this in an official capacity beyond a comment on a forum. LTT is big enough that this situation will affect their bottom line.

 

I would imagine that there will be a video reply to the situation given that the initial complaint is in video form - why wouldn't you create a public reply that 99% of your audience can easily find, especially if they watched the original video? The only reason you wouldn't do that would be because you're just waiting for the whole thing to blow over. But at 2M views already the cat is out of the bag. With that being said, I appreciate that LTT may want to digest and think carefully about how they reply; after all, the main complaint is that their content is rushed. The forum reply seems superficial and merely damage control. A more nuanced response is required.

 

There's no avoiding the situation. Own up to the issues raised and commit to future actions that will improve your content and practices going forward.

[RockerBug17]

18 minutes ago, ToboRobot said:

Reaching out for comment wouldn't have changed to overall tone of the video, and may have made it a better more compelling story.

I hope Steve states why he did not do so, that way the speculation can end.

We know why he didn't. LMG recognizes their mistake, reached out to Billet, and both parties came to an agreement they both deemed satisfactory.

 

The story is much more compelling when you let people's minds to run wild by not doing your due diligence. 

[joaopt]

3 minutes ago, RichardBirch said:

The reality of the situation at this stage is that the GN video has created enough of a stink that someone from LTT needs to comment on this in an official capacity beyond a comment on a forum. LTT is big enough that this situation will affect their bottom line.

 

I would imagine that there will be a video reply to the situation given that the initial complaint is in video form - why wouldn't you create a public reply that 99% of your audience can easily find, especially if they watched the original video? The only reason you wouldn't do that would be because you're just waiting for the whole thing to blow over. But at 2M views already the cat is out of the bag. With that being said, I appreciate that LTT may want to digest and think carefully about how they reply; after all, the main complaint is that their content is rushed. The forum reply seems superficial and merely damage control. A more nuanced response is required.

 

There's no avoiding the situation. Own up to the issues raised and commit to future actions that will improve your content and practices going forward.

 

how many times have you seen this in big corporations, try to avoid the subject hoping it goes away on it's own, people forget.

He became what he criticised

[lacion]

Just now, coonwhiz said:

How is GN making money off of it? The video isn't monetized, there's no sponsor, they don't have a link to their store in the description or anywhere in the video. When they call out MSI or NewEgg, they've still put their own links in the video.

Those who believe that the absence of direct monetization and sponsors means GN isn't benefiting need to understand the broader dynamics of online content. It might be worth re-evaluating such beliefs without being overly simplistic.

 

There are myriad ways to profit from online content, with direct monetization often being one of the lesser earners.

 

The true value of these companies lies in their audience reach and the metrics they can showcase, which attest to their influence. So, in essence, every video they release contributes to their long-term monetization strategy. This isn't exclusive to GN; it's a common practice for many creators discussing this topic. The intricate nuances of how content creators profit are often obscured from the general audience.

 

To claim they're not reaping benefits from their content is both disingenuous and misleading.

[MrSuperb]

 

2 minutes ago, joaopt said:

what comment was needed? to explain away all the mistakes, errors, killing the employees with insane workloads, put profit in front of accuracy, failing to apologise when needed, etc...

 

this was an expose, a very good one. Linus can comment, and btw he decided not way, hoping it goes away, guess what it didn't.

nobody is forced to work there

nobody is forced to watch their videos

 

you definitely don’t know who apologized to whom.

you are just here for the drama and are poison for the community

 

[Karon]

To those trying to shame Steve because he didn't reach out for comment, even going as far as trying to cite ethics board guidelines:

 

Did Linus reach out to the companies after secret shopping to get their side of the story and then adjusted his conclusion based on their comments? 

[Alvin853]

1 minute ago, yazzmatazz said:

@LinusTech This statement is what bothers me the most about your response and is essentially gaslighting the community.

 

I'm still a relatively new follower and only been following your channels for about a year now. I occasionally tune in to the WAN show and have always admired your transparency and honesty when dealing with controversies. However, the GN video has made me pause my subscriptions and has prompted me to reflect on how I consume media on youtube and moving forward I plan on focusing on quality content only. Hopefully you will listen to your team's feedback and also focus more on quality over quantity. I know you will eventually do the right thing, I just hope you don't wait too long and alienate even more of your community.

At this point I'm seriously worried all these WAN shows have just been full of lies, not much transparency and honesty, just Linus having some time to come up with excuses for his/LMGs mistakes, so many times it seems he's just trying to laugh them off/turn them into some kind of joke instead of addressing the original issue. Linus's words no longer have any credibility for me, he needs to do what he says, not keep saying one thing but doing another over and over for years. Why do so many controversies keep happening to LMG?

[joaopt]

1 minute ago, RockerBug17 said:

We know why he didn't. LMG recognizes their mistake, reached out to Billet, and both parties came to an agreement they both deemed satisfactory.

 

The story is much more compelling when you let people's minds to run wild by not doing your due diligence. 

 

a one of a kind prototype

pay for the production cost, per Linus words

 

i can't be the only one that find this incredible stupid and unfair