decent open-back headphones?

[strawberrygirl]

I have been looking for decent open-back headphones + something to power them for around 200 usd total ^^

is there anything in particular you would recommend? anything I need to pay attention to? the type of music I listen to is j-core, j-rock, 80-90s j-pop mostly

thank you for all the help in advance!

[Bananasplit_00]

My strongest recomendation as someone who own way too many headphones: buy used, maybe vintage even, and replace the earpads. The highest end stuff from the 70s and 80s can sometimes be found silly cheap and is comparable to the best stuff around today in sound quality at least imo.

 

I've found high end orthodynamics(other/older word for planar magnetic) headphones for €10-€30 in good condition, with sound worlds beyond what my >€100 Sennies would put out

 

If you dont want to get used, find a store that lets you try the headphones before you buy. Makes it a lot easier to find what fits your head and what you like the sound off.

 

I would also get headphones first and then evaluate the need for an amp. My laptop can drive 150 ohm headphones without much problem so you might not even need an amplifier.

[adm0n]

If you don't really want to spend much money, the Sennheiser HD 599's are pretty great and you can just power them via your integrated soundcard.

 

Otherwise the best options I'm aware of are :

• Beyerdynamic DT 990 (Pro)
  • Good build quality (metal construction)
  • Slightly better for gaming
  • Pro version needs something to drive it, non pro version is also available in a 32 Ohm version. Technically you do lose a bit of quality with the lower ohm versions. Don't know if you'll be able to spot the difference though.
• Beyerdynamic DT  900 Pro X
  • Similar to DT 990
  • Probably is fine without amp
• Philips Fidelio X2HR
  • Slightly better for music
  • Should be fine without amp

You could also go for the HD 6xx from Drop and save up a bit more for something to power them, or you might even be fine without an AMP depending on how good the soundcard is..

 

To power any of them, you'd look at something like the FiiO K5 Pro or SoundblasterX G6. Which all costs around ~100 USD I think. All in all, I'd rather invest in good headphones first.

 

If you are comfortable with buying used, listen to @Bananasplit_00's advice. You can also look at slightly newer but used Headphones. Good headphones hardly ever break or deteriorate in quality. So buying used is the obvious choice!

 

 

 

[porina]

My personal go-to headphones are the AKG K702. I got them as I wanted something like the Sennheiser HD600 I used previously at work, but the K702 is a lot cheaper and more importantly much more comfortable to me.

 

I don't define my choice based on content but the type of sound it gives. Both above have what I'd call a neutral bass as I really hate bass emphasis.

 

I haven't had any need for an amp for my uses so can't advise there. Most of the time it is used on a PC.

[AI_Must_Di3]

I got these a couple months back and they are really good, no built in mic though. These are studio grade headphones and def worth the money. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08Q4BMM3B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As far as headphone amp you will have to be a little more specific about the features you're looking for. Do you want analog/tube or solid, bass boost, gains, wattage, portable or just for a desktop, etc.... theres so many parameters and they all matter.

[strawberrygirl]

1 hour ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

My strongest recomendation as someone who own way too many headphones: buy used, maybe vintage even, and replace the earpads. The highest end stuff from the 70s and 80s can sometimes be found silly cheap and is comparable to the best stuff around today in sound quality at least imo.

 

I've found high end orthodynamics(other/older word for planar magnetic) headphones for €10-€30 in good condition, with sound worlds beyond what my >€100 Sennies would put out

 

If you dont want to get used, find a store that lets you try the headphones before you buy. Makes it a lot easier to find what fits your head and what you like the sound off.

 

I would also get headphones first and then evaluate the need for an amp. My laptop can drive 150 ohm headphones without much problem so you might not even need an amplifier.

I would not want to use something used that is close to my head/hair etc, just out of my comfort zone ^^;....
thanks for the comment though!

[strawberrygirl]

1 hour ago, adm0n said:

If you don't really want to spend much money, the Sennheiser HD 599's are pretty great and you can just power them via your integrated soundcard.

 

Otherwise the best options I'm aware of are :

• Beyerdynamic DT 990 (Pro)
  • Good build quality (metal construction)
  • Slightly better for gaming
  • Pro version needs something to drive it, non pro version is also available in a 32 Ohm version. Technically you do lose a bit of quality with the lower ohm versions. Don't know if you'll be able to spot the difference though.
• Beyerdynamic DT  900 Pro X
  • Similar to DT 990
  • Probably is fine without amp
• Philips Fidelio X2HR
  • Slightly better for music
  • Should be fine without amp

You could also go for the HD 6xx from Drop and save up a bit more for something to power them, or you might even be fine without an AMP depending on how good the soundcard is..

 

To power any of them, you'd look at something like the FiiO K5 Pro or SoundblasterX G6. Which all costs around ~100 USD I think. All in all, I'd rather invest in good headphones first.

 

If you are comfortable with buying used, listen to @Bananasplit_00's advice. You can also look at slightly newer but used Headphones. Good headphones hardly ever break or deteriorate in quality. So buying used is the obvious choice!

 

 

 

thank you for your recommendations! ^^
from the headphones you listed, 599s and x2hr seem interesting to me, but how can I know if my integrated soundcard can support it? would listing my mobo help?
 

[strawberrygirl]

47 minutes ago, porina said:

My personal go-to headphones are the AKG K702. I got them as I wanted something like the Sennheiser HD600 I used previously at work, but the K702 is a lot cheaper and more importantly much more comfortable to me.

 

I don't define my choice based on content but the type of sound it gives. Both above have what I'd call a neutral bass as I really hate bass emphasis.

 

I haven't had any need for an amp for my uses so can't advise there. Most of the time it is used on a PC.

thanks for your input!
they seem nicely designed, quickly looked up the reviews and they seem pretty positive - might consider them ^^

[adm0n]

9 minutes ago, strawberrygirl said:

thank you for your recommendations! ^^
from the headphones you listed, 599s and x2hr seem interesting to me, but how can I know if my integrated soundcard can support it? would listing my mobo help?
 

You can drive both of those headphones with a pretty weak AMP. The question becomes more if the audio circuit on your Motherboard is well shielded. The better the headphones get, the more you are usually able to hear. So you might be able to hear some hissing sounds, if you got a particularly cheap motherboard.

 

Sure posting the Motherboard model, at least helps us see, if it is really cheap.

I'd also recommend you to at least try out EqualizerAPO. It allows you to fine tune the sound of whatever headphones you pick up. Here is an index of EQ presets for lots of different headphones -> https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets/

 

Spoiler

At the bottom of that PDF, there are up to 10 EQ bands listed: (example of the Philips Fidelio x2hr)

 

Those you can enter into Equalizer APO by copying all of the necessary fields. (In the software, select the green + icon -> select parametric filters -> Either Peaking / Low-shelf or high-shelf depending what the Filter type column in the preset says)

 

You'll get an input that looks like this:

 

Just copy the values from the table. You can ignore the BW column, as it is just a different way of describing the Q-Factor (see how it is the same for both fields that have a Q-Factor of 4?)

You do this for each row in the table and you are almost done.

 

Just add the preamp gain by adding another filter, this time Basic Filters -> Preamp. And you are done. On the right hand side you see which dials you can adjust and what they affect. That way you can tune the sound to your liking. Otherwise you can also just play around with it yourself.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

[strawberrygirl]

31 minutes ago, adm0n said:

You can drive both of those headphones with a pretty weak AMP. The question becomes more if the audio circuit on your Motherboard is well shielded. The better the headphones get, the more you are usually able to hear. So you might be able to hear some hissing sounds, if you got a particularly cheap motherboard.

 

Sure posting the Motherboard model, at least helps us see, if it is really cheap.

I'd also recommend you to at least try out EqualizerAPO. It allows you to fine tune the sound of whatever headphones you pick up. Here is an index of EQ presets for lots of different headphones -> https://www.reddit.com/r/oratory1990/wiki/index/list_of_presets/

 

  Reveal hidden contents

At the bottom of that PDF, there are up to 10 EQ bands listed: (example of the Philips Fidelio x2hr)

 

Those you can enter into Equalizer APO by copying all of the necessary fields. (In the software, select the green + icon -> select parametric filters -> Either Peaking / Low-shelf or high-shelf depending what the Filter type column in the preset says)

 

You'll get an input that looks like this:

 

Just copy the values from the table. You can ignore the BW column, as it is just a different way of describing the Q-Factor (see how it is the same for both fields that have a Q-Factor of 4?)

You do this for each row in the table and you are almost done.

 

Just add the preamp gain by adding another filter, this time Basic Filters -> Preamp. And you are done. On the right hand side you see which dials you can adjust and what they affect. That way you can tune the sound to your liking. Otherwise you can also just play around with it yourself.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

>So you might be able to hear some hissing sounds, if you got a particularly cheap motherboard.
yeah, that happens in my case unfortunately ^^;...

[adm0n]

1 minute ago, strawberrygirl said:

>So you might be able to hear some hissing sounds, if you got a particularly cheap motherboard.
yeah, that happens in my case unfortunately ^^;...

Are you using the front panel audio connector or the one at the back of the motherboard? Usually the one at the front is way worse.

[strawberrygirl]

1 minute ago, adm0n said:

Are you using the front panel audio connector or the one at the back of the motherboard? Usually the one at the front is way worse.

the one on the side (it's on the side in my pc case, q500l) is really bad - I currently use the one on the back, it's a bit better but not perfect

 

[adm0n]

2 minutes ago, strawberrygirl said:

the one on the side (it's on the side in my pc case, q500l) is really bad - I currently use the one on the back, it's a bit better but not perfect

 

Have you already tried messing around with the audio settings? Sometimes some extra "audio enhancements" are enabled that can make it sound less good. And are you also hearing the hissing if you connect your headphones to your phone, for example (if you still have one with an audio jack :c ) or any other source?

[strawberrygirl]

1 minute ago, adm0n said:

Have you already tried messing around with the audio settings? Sometimes some extra "audio enhancements" are enabled that can make it sound less good. And are you also hearing the hissing if you connect your headphones to your phone, for example (if you still have one with an audio jack :c ) or any other source?

I only hear hissing on my pc

[adm0n]

1 minute ago, strawberrygirl said:

I only hear hissing on my pc

That's very sad then :c

 

Then I guess you'll need an external DAC. I'd recommend the FiiO k5 Pro. Since it also has a separate power source. I've heard people complain about USB power being "contaminated" by the host system. Because of this effect the sound of DACs that get their power from USB as well, can be worse. Not sure if this is actually a thing you can hear though.

 

Feel free to research on your own though. I don't have the best overview over the external USB DACs around ~100USD

[CTR640]

If Fiio K5 Pro is expensive, the iFi ZEN Air is a pretty fine one too. Or iFi Uno. 

 

Beyerdynamic Tygr is also a very good headphone aside X2HR. 

[strawberrygirl]

5 hours ago, adm0n said:

That's very sad then :c

 

Then I guess you'll need an external DAC. I'd recommend the FiiO k5 Pro. Since it also has a separate power source. I've heard people complain about USB power being "contaminated" by the host system. Because of this effect the sound of DACs that get their power from USB as well, can be worse. Not sure if this is actually a thing you can hear though.

 

Feel free to research on your own though. I don't have the best overview over the external USB DACs around ~100USD

thanks for your input on this ^^

[strawberrygirl]

3 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

If Fiio K5 Pro is expensive, the iFi ZEN Air is a pretty fine one too. Or iFi Uno. 

 

Beyerdynamic Tygr is also a very good headphone aside X2HR. 

I will have a look at these later, thank you ^^

[Spuriae]

6 hours ago, strawberrygirl said:

I have been looking for decent open-back headphones + something to power them for around 200 usd total ^^

is there anything in particular you would recommend? anything I need to pay attention to? the type of music I listen to is j-core, j-rock, 80-90s j-pop mostly

thank you for all the help in advance!

Japanese pop mastering is bright (treble-heavy), so it may make sense to avoid headphones that are themselves already treble-heavy, to avoid listening fatigue. What headphones do you currently use, and what (if anything) would you want to change about the way they sound or fit on your head?

 

Some thoughts on potential fits for your use case and budget:

• Sennheiser HD58X/HD6XX/HD650/HD600: Popular reference headphones renowned for their smooth treble. May clamp too hard for those with larger heads (though this can easily be changed by stretching or bending the headband).
• AKG K612/K702: Neutral headphones with a wider soundstage. If you have a particularly small or large head, the suspension headband mechanism may not work for you as its adjustment range is limited. If your head is medium-sized it works great.
• Hifiman HE400SE/Deva Pro: Planars, so deeper bass while remaining open-backed. Significantly heavier than the others. Also less efficient, so will likely require an amplifier.
• Audio-Technica AD500X/AD700X/AD900X: Not as popular in the west due to their nonstandard tuning, but it isn't as bad when paired with Japanese music mastering since they were designed for the Japanese market. Has a particularly wide soundstage. The wing-style headband is usually seen as less comfortable, but the upside is that it's less likely to mess up your hair if that's a concern.

I would not recommend most of Beyerdynamic's lineup for your music selection since their treble tends to already be on the high side.

6 hours ago, adm0n said:

If you don't really want to spend much money, the Sennheiser HD 599's are pretty great and you can just power them via your integrated soundcard.

The 599 shouldn't be powered from a motherboard despite the reasonable nominal impedance. Motherboards use a 75Ω output resistor, and the 599 has a low baseline but highly variable impedance which interacts heavily with high output impedance sources. It will still get reasonably loud, but bass quality is severely reduced on a motherboard with an extra ~5dB of bloat centered at 200Hz.

 

5 hours ago, porina said:

My personal go-to headphones are the AKG K702. I got them as I wanted something like the Sennheiser HD600 I used previously at work, but the K702 is a lot cheaper and more importantly much more comfortable to me.

This is a great option, as is the very similar K612 (which may or may not be cheaper depending on where you are). The K612 is tuned more neutral, but the K702 is usually considered more engaging.

 

4 hours ago, strawberrygirl said:

I only hear hissing on my pc

If price is a significant concern, and noise is your primary issue, you may consider using a dongle. They're cheaper than a standalone DAC/Amp and often are have decent audio quality, but have less output power as a tradeoff. Apple's $9 USB-C to 3.5mm adapter, for example, works on Windows and has better output quality than most motherboards.

 

For a cheap conventional DAC/Amp consider the Topping DX1, but at a $200 overall budget it usually makes more sense to focus on the headphones.

[porina]

8 minutes ago, Spuriae said:

• Sennheiser HD58X/HD6XX/HD650/HD600: Popular reference headphones renowned for their smooth treble. May clamp too hard for those with larger heads (though this can easily be changed by stretching or bending the headband).

• AKG K612/K702: Neutral headphones with a wider soundstage. If you have a particularly small or large head, the suspension headband mechanism may not work for you as its adjustment range is limited. If your head is medium-sized it works great.

I think I have a head size on the large end, based on my difficulty finding a helmet that fits when I go karting. K702 is about right. HD600 really felt like squashing my head.

 

10 minutes ago, Spuriae said:

This is a great option, as is the very similar K612 (which may or may not be cheaper depending on where you are). The K612 is tuned more neutral, but the K702 is usually considered more engaging.

K612 wasn't on my radar when I was looking. Now I'm curious how they compare.

[CTR640]

Beyerdynamic may be famous for their bright highs but not all of them have that issue. The affordable DT880 and Tygr have smooth highs. The not so affordable Beyerdynamics with smooth highs are Amiron Wireless (Copper), Amiron Home and the T5/T1 3rd gen. 

[Spuriae]

4 minutes ago, porina said:

I think I have a head size on the large end, based on my difficulty finding a helmet that fits when I go karting. K702 is about right. HD600 really felt like squashing my head.

 

The HD600/650 clamps very tightly on my head, but after bending the metal rails they have about as much clamp force as a QC35, which is perfect for me, and they still have plenty of extra adjustment clearance for an even larger head. Hifiman's plush headbands fit me at max extension, but also require bending the metal for comfortable clamp. I'm a few millimeters short of being able to fit the K612/7XX on my head the normal way with the band fully extended (which is not comfortable at all since there is no suspension at that point). If I use them I tend to keep them tilted forward of normal, which is better but isn't as stable and doesn't provide much padding.

 

I still kept the K612 because they sound great for the price, are a good Harman reference for my measurement microphone, and work well for lending out since other people don't need to readjust them when putting them on.

[adm0n]

51 minutes ago, Spuriae said:

The 599 shouldn't be powered from a motherboard despite the reasonable nominal impedance. Motherboards use a 75Ω output resistor, and the 599 has a low baseline but highly variable impedance which interacts heavily with high output impedance sources. It will still get reasonably loud, but bass quality is severely reduced on a motherboard with an extra ~5dB of bloat centered at 200Hz.

While that is true, that is true, before you actually hear the difference, it doesn't really matter (that much). I've been using a pair of HD 599s with motherboard integrated audio for some time and was perfectly content with it. After actually getting a somewhat decent DAC and playing with EQs a bit, I did notice, an improvement. But it wasn't that significant (too me). At least not making me regret not getting the DAC earlier.

 

That being said, I don't really like skimping out on either the Headphones or the DAC, because if they are unevenly paired, you'll want to upgrade at least one part of it, which makes the other e-waste :c

 

51 minutes ago, Spuriae said:

Motherboards use a 75Ω output resistor,

Where did you get this information. I just checked the specs of the chip in my motherboard (ALC1220) and got this:

[rice guru]

10 hours ago, strawberrygirl said:

I have been looking for decent open-back headphones + something to power them for around 200 usd total ^^

is there anything in particular you would recommend? anything I need to pay attention to? the type of music I listen to is j-core, j-rock, 80-90s j-pop mostly

thank you for all the help in advance!

For your budget I would.go for the Beyerdynamic tygr easy to power great for gaming and the sound signature does well with rock and older styles of music. Previously mentioned akg k612 and 702 are also good options buth both can be flat and boring. 

[strawberrygirl]

2 hours ago, Spuriae said:

Japanese pop mastering is bright (treble-heavy), so it may make sense to avoid headphones that are themselves already treble-heavy, to avoid listening fatigue. What headphones do you currently use, and what (if anything) would you want to change about the way they sound or fit on your head?

 

Some thoughts on potential fits for your use case and budget:

• Sennheiser HD58X/HD6XX/HD650/HD600: Popular reference headphones renowned for their smooth treble. May clamp too hard for those with larger heads (though this can easily be changed by stretching or bending the headband).
• AKG K612/K702: Neutral headphones with a wider soundstage. If you have a particularly small or large head, the suspension headband mechanism may not work for you as its adjustment range is limited. If your head is medium-sized it works great.
• Hifiman HE400SE/Deva Pro: Planars, so deeper bass while remaining open-backed. Significantly heavier than the others. Also less efficient, so will likely require an amplifier.
• Audio-Technica AD500X/AD700X/AD900X: Not as popular in the west due to their nonstandard tuning, but it isn't as bad when paired with Japanese music mastering since they were designed for the Japanese market. Has a particularly wide soundstage. The wing-style headband is usually seen as less comfortable, but the upside is that it's less likely to mess up your hair if that's a concern.

I would not recommend most of Beyerdynamic's lineup for your music selection since their treble tends to already be on the high side.

The 599 shouldn't be powered from a motherboard despite the reasonable nominal impedance. Motherboards use a 75Ω output resistor, and the 599 has a low baseline but highly variable impedance which interacts heavily with high output impedance sources. It will still get reasonably loud, but bass quality is severely reduced on a motherboard with an extra ~5dB of bloat centered at 200Hz.

 

This is a great option, as is the very similar K612 (which may or may not be cheaper depending on where you are). The K612 is tuned more neutral, but the K702 is usually considered more engaging.

 

If price is a significant concern, and noise is your primary issue, you may consider using a dongle. They're cheaper than a standalone DAC/Amp and often are have decent audio quality, but have less output power as a tradeoff. Apple's $9 USB-C to 3.5mm adapter, for example, works on Windows and has better output quality than most motherboards.

 

For a cheap conventional DAC/Amp consider the Topping DX1, but at a $200 overall budget it usually makes more sense to focus on the headphones.

currently I have hyperx alpha 2, sometimes it feels like music is a bit too close to my ears (soundstage related?) than I would like it to be ^^;
do you think that apple dongle you mentioned would be enough to power k702?