Lets Give Linus a good Linux Expirience!

[AliceShadowRose]

Hey LTT Team Linus should try the EndevourOS it is easy to handle and more like windows but with the linux features.

https://endeavouros.com/latest-release/

[filpo]

6 minutes ago, AliceShadowRose said:

Hey LTT Team Linus should try the EndevourOS it is easy to handle and more like windows but with the linux features.

https://endeavouros.com/latest-release/

Sounds exactly like CalyxOS 

 

[bezza...]

Just now, filpo said:

Sounds exactly like CalyxOS 

 

is it not a desktp[ os?

[filpo]

Just now, Tomberry said:

is it not a desktp[ os?

ye but the same concept (the vid explains it)

[Gokul_P]

He will break it in less than one hour. You prob need to walk him through every single thing like he is a child if he need to use Linux rather than breaking it.  

[Arika]

1 hour ago, AliceShadowRose said:

Hey LTT Team Linus should try the EndevourOS it is easy to handle and more like windows but with the linux features.

https://endeavouros.com/latest-release/

the problem Linus (and a lot of people for that matter), have with Linux isn't that it's not windows-like, it's that it's Linux.

[WereCat]

It's still Linux. It will crumble down in the presence of Linus and you wont even get it to boot

[Needfuldoer]

> Desktop Linux

> Good experience

 

Pick one.

[Akitake]

Ah yes, arch with the graphical installer, definitely a GOOD experience for someone who just wants something that works and doesn't cause issues.

Definitely the right solution for the oh so patient Linus.

[masked]

On 4/25/2023 at 2:29 PM, Akitake said:

Ah yes, arch with the graphical installer, definitely a GOOD experience for someone who just wants something that works and doesn't cause issues.

Definitely the right solution for the oh so patient Linus.

He managed to use Manjaro for a month after he broke Pop_OS in one of the most hilarious stunts I've seen recently so it's not the most insane idea ever.

 

Past that, I think the exercise is flawed from the beginning. If you want to sell Linus on Linux then I'd expect that you need one of two things to happen

 

1) Microsoft does something so insanely stupid with Windows that Linus is willing to put a significant amount of effort into switching OS.

 

2) A Linux distro offers something awesome enough to invest in switching while still having the ability to do things that he needs from Windows.

 

Windows has a metric fuckton of issues, yes but Linus already knows how to deal with them all so there's no obvious opportunity cost to him in continuing to deal with those issues. The cost in mastering a new OS and learning to troubleshoot it is very obvious and very upfront. Find a pay-off worth the obvious up front cost in time or demonstrate that continuing to put up with Microsoft's BS is more expensive that it's worth.

[nanopone]

a linux distro being "more like windows" is never a good thing. if you're going linux, embrace linux, don't try to dress it up and put makeup on it to pretend you're still using windows

[Libre]

3 hours ago, nanopone said:

a linux distro being "more like windows" is never a good thing. if you're going linux, embrace linux, don't try to dress it up and put makeup on it to pretend you're still using windows

People are used to the look and feel of windows and wants it to feel the same without selling all your data to Microsoft and Microsoft ads tightly integrated into windows 10/11.

[maplepants]

On 5/28/2023 at 7:26 AM, Libre said:

People are used to the look and feel of windows and wants it to feel the same

I think the number of people who want to switch desktop OS but demand that the new OS works identically to Windows is basically 0. Android, iOS, ChromeOS and macOS work very differently from Windows and it doesn't hurt them at all. 

 

The problem with desktop Linux isn't that it's too different from Windows; it's that it's bad. 

[LloydLynx]

The only way Linus is gonna have anywhere near a decent Linux experience is if he gets a whole desktop setup from System76 so that everything works flawlessly together. Like getting a Thelio, Launch keyboard, and MX Master mouse. But Linus is just too deep in the niche bleeding edge world for that to be feasible.

[10leej]

8 hours ago, LloydLynx said:

The only way Linus is gonna have anywhere near a decent Linux experience is if he gets a whole desktop setup from System76 so that everything works flawlessly together. Like getting a Thelio, Launch keyboard, and MX Master mouse. But Linus is just too deep in the niche bleeding edge world for that to be feasible.

His hardware setup was literally not the cause of any of his issues in the series.....

[Ultraforce]

14 hours ago, maplepants said:

I think the number of people who want to switch desktop OS but demand that the new OS works identically to Windows is basically 0. Android, iOS, ChromeOS and macOS work very differently from Windows and it doesn't hurt them at all. 

 

The problem with desktop Linux isn't that it's too different from Windows; it's that it's bad. 

Personally I'd disagree with desktop Linux being bad, I've tried using it personally for about 7 months now and even with a slightly weird system desktop wise it works great pretty much just stays out of my way and lets me play games or browse which is most of what the gaming crowd needs, haven't done too much with OBS but that worked fine for me as well.

10 hours ago, LloydLynx said:

The only way Linus is gonna have anywhere near a decent Linux experience is if he gets a whole desktop setup from System76 so that everything works flawlessly together. Like getting a Thelio, Launch keyboard, and MX Master mouse. But Linus is just too deep in the niche bleeding edge world for that to be feasible.

Linus has talked about he's actually had a decent and even good Linux experience before a decent amount of his servers at home as well as business servers are all Linux, though a few are Free BSD, he just hasn't had the greatest desktop Linux experience with a few exceptions in videos.

2 hours ago, 10leej said:

His hardware setup was literally not the cause of any of his issues in the series.....

While this was mostly true there is one exception his hardware did cause an issue when it came to some initial sound issues with the TC Helion GoXLR which wasn't Linux compatible and actually had a fan created utility to try and help make it easier to use.

[Ultraforce]

On 4/25/2023 at 4:01 AM, AliceShadowRose said:

Hey LTT Team Linus should try the EndevourOS it is easy to handle and more like windows but with the linux features.

https://endeavouros.com/latest-release/

Personally, I think the Linux distribution that would most likely be LTT video worthy would be something like Vanilla OS because it gives a way of talking about containers and immutability in a simple and interesting way and how software that started at the enterprise of containers is coming to consumer/hobbyists with a question of might Microsoft try to have something similar on Windows at asome point in time in the future?

[10leej]

5 hours ago, Ultraforce said:

Personally I'd disagree with desktop Linux being bad, I've tried using it personally for about 7 months now and even with a slightly weird system desktop wise it works great pretty much just stays out of my way and lets me play games or browse which is most of what the gaming crowd needs, haven't done too much with OBS but that worked fine for me as well.

Linus has talked about he's actually had a decent and even good Linux experience before a decent amount of his servers at home as well as business servers are all Linux, though a few are Free BSD, he just hasn't had the greatest desktop Linux experience with a few exceptions in videos.

While this was mostly true there is one exception his hardware did cause an issue when it came to some initial sound issues with the TC Helion GoXLR which wasn't Linux compatible and actually had a fan created utility to try and help make it easier to use.

Again that is a solved issue with the hardware that Linux did in fact find. The issue was a lack of documentation on how to solve his issue.

 

So no, not a hardware issue.

[gortbrown]

On 5/31/2023 at 9:20 PM, Ultraforce said:

Personally, I think the Linux distribution that would most likely be LTT video worthy would be something like Vanilla OS because it gives a way of talking about containers and immutability in a simple and interesting way and how software that started at the enterprise of containers is coming to consumer/hobbyists with a question of might Microsoft try to have something similar on Windows at asome point in time in the future?

I agree! Something like this or Fedora Silverblue would be interesting to see a video on. I think the use of containers and the fact that they are pretty stable make them pretty interesting!

[RollyShed]

On 5/31/2023 at 11:14 PM, maplepants said:

The problem with desktop Linux isn't that it's too different from Windows; it's that it's bad. 

Linux, it is logical and reliable. Windows is just a mess. How many people have you had dealings with that have switched to Linux? One? two? 20? 50? OK I've only had a few more than 50 (60?) and they all find it easy to use.

 

My partner, after Microsoft totally destroyed her Windows computer in 2018, deleted everything, Simply carried on as if nothing had happened except she was now using Linux. And each month? It kept on going without any hitches, and keeps on going. Another person, couldn't get her assignments done on Windows, did them on Linux and got her accreditation and a job. And so it goes on, simple, logical, reliable.

 

The difference? Two clicks to do the same as in Windows and you start to get there the same way, same start point.

[maplepants]

1 hour ago, RollyShed said:

Linux, it is logical and reliable. Windows is just a mess. How many people have you had dealings with that have switched to Linux? One? two? 20? 50? OK I've only had a few more than 50 (60?) and they all find it easy to use.

 

My partner, after Microsoft totally destroyed her Windows computer in 2018, deleted everything, Simply carried on as if nothing had happened except she was now using Linux. And each month? It kept on going without any hitches, and keeps on going. Another person, couldn't get her assignments done on Windows, did them on Linux and got her accreditation and a job. And so it goes on, simple, logical, reliable.

 

The difference? Two clicks to do the same as in Windows and you start to get there the same way, same start point.

I have run desktop Linux since Ubuntu 7.10 and attached my current Linux desktop. Mostly I use macOS, but I use Ubuntu at least once a day.

 

I've switched a great many servers from Windows, and bought raspberry Pis for people in my life. But I've never switched anyone else to desktop Linux (unless WSL counts), nor do I think I will any time soon. If your needs are very lite and you've got easy access to somebody who really knows Linux, then it's possible to make the switch. But that's not most people's situation.

 

Don't get me wrong, this isn't a defence of Windows. Windows is also bad, and I'd never recommend it to someone who wasn't already using it. 

[RollyShed]

1 hour ago, maplepants said:

If your needs are very lite and you've got easy access to somebody who really knows Linux, then it's possible to make the switch. But that's not most people's situation.

Not what I've found. Linux Mint, 5 minutes pointing out why I've set things up the way I have and they are all go.

 

What do you mean by "needs are very light"?

Running a business, doing the accounts, learning to play the violin, set up websites, write books, do a lot of proofreading for people, edit lots of PDFs, etc. etc. Light enough?

[maplepants]

1 hour ago, RollyShed said:

What do you mean by "needs are very light"?

Running a business, doing the accounts, learning to play the violin, set up websites, write books, do a lot of proofreading for people, edit lots of PDFs, etc. etc. Light enough?

By light I mean computationally and software wise. Those tasks are all important, and the computer plays a central role. But writing the screen play for The Last of Us just doesn't take as much computational power as developing the game. Linux is good so long as your workflow is software development (like mine) or very light (like writing). 

 

2 hours ago, RollyShed said:

Not what I've found. Linux Mint, 5 minutes pointing out why I've set things up the way I have and they are all go.

You're basically just agreeing with me here. Sure you say it's only five minutes one time, but that would make you a real outlier. Just look at the kind of tech support requests that are posted here. This user needed to launch an x11 session then log out of it and back into wayland in order to get games to launch, this user had a classic desktop Linux problem: getting sound to work the way he wanted, these two users tried to game on Linux and ran into serious trouble. 

 

People switching to desktop Linux need help to do so. If they're extremely lucky, they'll just need a few minutes, but most people will need much more.

[chaslinux]

My guess is that Linus tries different Linux distributions on his own from time to time. He's a smart lad and has lots of hardware to experiment on. I expect that over time he'll find a distribution that he prefers over others.

 

I worked on a distribution back in 2001-2006 and one of our stated goals for the distribution was "The system should not hide UNIX." A lot of distributions have endeavoured to be like Windows or MacOS, and I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing (choice is good), but being different doesn't necessarily mean people cannot use it.

 

In the past 22 years our computer refurbishing project has seen people from all walks of life. We've had mixed martial artists, seniors, business owners, musicians, writers, politicians, and people whose first language isn't English. One thing that I've learned over the years is that people end up liking Linux for different reasons. Sure, it may take a few tries to find a distribution you like, and get over some issues, but people tend to forget it's all a learning process. There's nothing wrong with going back to Windows/MacOS and checking things out later.

 

We've seen show-stopping bugs on all OS's. A while back we had a slew of Dell Core i5-based laptops that were fine with Windows 10. Then we ran updates on the laptops and a newer Intel graphics driver caused the display to go black (external connection was fine). We had to block the particular driver update from happening in order to use 10 on those laptops. Those laptops ended up being folded into our refurbishing stream and getting Linux. Xubuntu Linux had a pretty nasty bug in 20.04 at one point where if you tried to change the printer driver the interface to CUPS tended to just hang. You could kill the window, but it was a pain until it got updated... That said, it's nice that 30 year old printers are still being supported.

 

There are a lot of good points in this thread. Yes, as a refurbisher who has been helping people with both Windows and Linux, some people need more help than others with Linux. But... We've also seen people on Windows reinfect their computer 3 weeks in a row after complete wipe, reinstall, and updated antivirus. And, we had someone once leave a 15 minute message about this "damn green button" (this was going back many years - we ended up figuring out it was the Windows XP start button they were referring to). If you don't know anything about technology, even a simple thing can be daunting.

 

Ultimately for Linus, and others, it will probably come down to a day where he tries some flavour of Linux and it works good enough for something he's doing, and he just keeps it on that hardware for awhile. Linus has all kinds of support options not everyone has access to, so he's luckier than most. As a few in this thread have pointed out, having someone to go to for help is a big help.

 

The MMA fighter I mentioned earlier had never used Linux before. There was an initial issue where he couldn't get on the Internet, which turned out to be an IPv6 bug in the VOIP router supplied by his ISP, but once we helped him with that issue we didn't hear from him until a couple of years later when he came back to buy another computer. We fully expected him to buy a Windows machine, but he'd grown accustomed to Linux (we've used Xubuntu for the past 13 years) all on his own, and ended up buying another Linux box.

 

I no longer try to guess who can and can't use Linux, I just try to help where I can.

 

 

 

 

[Ultraforce]

3 hours ago, chaslinux said:

My guess is that Linus tries different Linux distributions on his own from time to time. He's a smart lad and has lots of hardware to experiment on. I expect that over time he'll find a distribution that he prefers over others.

On the WAN podcast as well as on the Linux challenge Linus has mentioned that outside of videos with Linux distros and a bit of work with his home server he really hasn't tried out Linux. He is really busy so he doesn't have the time to really play around with it as much as well as it just not being his main interest for free time. That was one of his things he talked about how he really just wants to jump in and play and/or stream games on his free time on his PC not really learning a new OS or tinkering with it.