X99 - i7-5820k VS Z170 6700k Both at 4.5ghz

[Flavlus]

 

Hello, 

I have ended up with 2 motherboard cpu combos i optained cheaply locally. (about $120 USD) inc 16gb DDR4 kit (4x4gb)

 

Both seem to be happy overclocked to about 4.5ghz on water.

Im not sure which one to stick with. The 6700k is theoretically a newer chip with better IPC but its 2 cores / 4 threads less. 
The X99 platform is also Quad channel vs Dual channel so that helps?? maybe??

New CPUs and Motherboards are still quiet expensive in my country (New Zealand) and havent come down enough to justify the cost. 

Which one should i keep and which one should i sell?

For modern games would they benefit more from the Quad Channel Memory and 6 core over the 4 core ? Or the slightly higher IPC ?

As for GPU I currently have a 980ti but will be upgradting to a something like a 3060 - 3070 in the very near future. 
I do some video editing / photoshop and games at 1440p (currently at 1080p since my 980ti cant handle 1440p that well)

Thanks in advance
 

[RONOTHAN##]

9 minutes ago, Flavlus said:

The X99 platform is also Quad channel vs Dual channel so that helps?? maybe??

 

The 5820K also has a significantly worse memory controller on it, so while the 6700K may have half the channels the actual memory speeds are something like 50% higher if you know what to do. It will still have higher memory bandwidth, but not as much as you might expect, and plus it has higher memory latency so in some games assuming all else is equal the 6700K would be better. 

 

Both platforms do still have merit, and which one is better will depend on the game whether they use 6 cores or not, but the 6700K is probably the one I'd keep. It doesn't hurt that the 6700K also uses the ring system rather than the mesh system that X99 uses resulting in significantly higher cache performance, so in addition to higher IPC in cache sensitive workloads like games it would still be faster if it doesn't use more than 4 cores. 

[filpo]

17 minutes ago, Flavlus said:

The X99 platform is also Quad channel vs Dual channel so that helps?? maybe??

not really. Many new gaming systems even today only use dual channel ram

 

18 minutes ago, Flavlus said:

Im not sure which one to stick with. The 6700k is theoretically a newer chip with better IPC but its 2 cores / 4 threads less. 

Follow this thread for more info on the two 

The 6700k on ebay is worth about 75 pounds here in the uk (if you put it up for buy it now) and the board and cpu go for about 150 pounds together for buy it now here in the uk (take this link with a grain of salt, its not worth that much) 

Z170 and 6700k: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385561425338?hash=item59c54075ba%3Ag%3AA2AAAOSw~XhkQfGY&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwEf3RGOHQxVUgTM1w%2FqMA5Ne8XIs%2BrFxSiXg9oAZ8ehCx7l22Rjoy0PlS7baPSMQt9Au0%2FnDyuiA1wnhCuj%2F3kj5SvolS%2BFbBmIMCZpii%2B06eXL85ourdvUep6Kw6F7RzXyqssXstbthGtUcKbQrgVyygGknZa4nKXD%2FD0nZkUMKjYNWtXiNQEZEEZvUhZIIKVYDL2bg5bRGMJZE7zpYL5q91G9BWSmp6EX%2FUhF06ClRlSV2s%2Fhc2KpvXVynvPZz%2BA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7Tu5Kr0YQ&LH_BIN=1&LH_ItemCondition=3000

The 5820k on the other hand only goes for about 16 pounds or 20 if you include postage so and the mobo is only worth about 70 so I would try to sell the 6700k and z170 and keep the 5820k and x99 and use them for the time being

[Flavlus]

26 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

The 5820K also has a significantly worse memory controller on it, so while the 6700K may have half the channels the actual memory speeds are something like 50% higher if you know what to do. It will still have higher memory bandwidth, but not as much as you might expect, and plus it has higher memory latency so in some games assuming all else is equal the 6700K would be better. 

 

Both platforms do still have merit, and which one is better will depend on the game whether they use 6 cores or not, but the 6700K is probably the one I'd keep. It doesn't hurt that the 6700K also uses the ring system rather than the mesh system that X99 uses resulting in significantly higher cache performance, so in addition to higher IPC in cache sensitive workloads like games it would still be faster if it doesn't use more than 4 cores. 

Both I would be running CL15 3000 Ram. 4 sticks. as this is the better ram kit between the two setups. 

Cinebench scores were about 1000 on the 6700k overclocked and 1350 on the 5820k 
This is Cinebench R15. Im using older cinebench as its easier to compare my results to others using older R15 as well. 

Im seeing more and more games asking for 6 cores or more so if gaming alone is a wash between the two systems would it not make sense to go 5820k since it has a up to a 35% bump in cpu heavy worloads like video export ... etc ?? 

Oh another thing. X99 allows for 6th gen upgrade. Looking at my motherboard compatability list i see 6800k, 6850k, 6900k and 6950x all on there. So there is some potential of an in socket upgrade to 6th gen? BUt idk how viable that would ever be as its probably not worth the upgrade. 

 

PS im not trying to argue im just trying to make sense of it all. I know $120 USD for Mobo, CPU and 16GB Ram is a decent deal so i cant complain. 

[Flavlus]

42 minutes ago, filpo said:

not really. Many new gaming systems even today only use dual channel ram

 

Follow this thread for more info on the two 

The 6700k on ebay is worth about 75 pounds here in the uk (if you put it up for buy it now) and the board and cpu go for about 150 pounds together for buy it now here in the uk (take this link with a grain of salt, its not worth that much) 

Z170 and 6700k: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/385561425338?hash=item59c54075ba%3Ag%3AA2AAAOSw~XhkQfGY&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwEf3RGOHQxVUgTM1w%2FqMA5Ne8XIs%2BrFxSiXg9oAZ8ehCx7l22Rjoy0PlS7baPSMQt9Au0%2FnDyuiA1wnhCuj%2F3kj5SvolS%2BFbBmIMCZpii%2B06eXL85ourdvUep6Kw6F7RzXyqssXstbthGtUcKbQrgVyygGknZa4nKXD%2FD0nZkUMKjYNWtXiNQEZEEZvUhZIIKVYDL2bg5bRGMJZE7zpYL5q91G9BWSmp6EX%2FUhF06ClRlSV2s%2Fhc2KpvXVynvPZz%2BA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR7Tu5Kr0YQ&LH_BIN=1&LH_ItemCondition=3000

The 5820k on the other hand only goes for about 16 pounds or 20 if you include postage so and the mobo is only worth about 70 so I would try to sell the 6700k and z170 and keep the 5820k and x99 and use them for the time being

Ok so I paid about 100 pounds after my conversion for an i7-5820k, Asus X99-PRO and 4x4gb DDR4 CL15 300mhz 
So by your numbers i basically got the Ram for free. 

Given that the value of the 6700k seems to be significantly higher. You are saying to just sell that sunce both these are old systems now and might as well cash out, put it towards a GPU or other stuff? Since the performance seems to be a little bit of a wash between them.

 

[filpo]

4 minutes ago, Flavlus said:

put it towards a GPU or other stuff? Since the performance seems to be a little bit of a wash between them.

ye they're performance is comparable and since they both miraculously have hyper threading i think the 5820k is good for now and as you said put the money to somewhere else in the system or your life

[porina]

I've owned both in the past. If gaming is a use case, and you're ok with overclocking, I'd pick the X99 system because 4 cores aren't enough for a decent experience in more modern games. The stock performance of 5820k is limited due to low clock, and OC negates that disadvantage.

 

The difference on CPU pricing is simply because the 5820k is the lowest CPU on that socket, and the 6700k is 2nd higher CPU on its socket behind 7700k. Lots of 5820k are on the market from people upgrading X99 systems, but there is still demand for high end 6700k as people try to stretch out the life of their older systems.

 

1 hour ago, RONOTHAN## said:

It doesn't hurt that the 6700K also uses the ring system rather than the mesh system that X99 uses resulting in significantly higher cache performance, so in addition to higher IPC in cache sensitive workloads like games it would still be faster if it doesn't use more than 4 cores. 

I think mesh wasn't added until Skylake-X (X299). Haswell-E is still on ring cache.

 

Edit: 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/8423/intel-xeon-e5-version-3-up-to-18-haswell-ep-cores-/4

 

Haswell-E is a variation of server Haswell-EP. The low core count one on the right. They had multiple rings on higher core count models.

[ryd994]

10 minutes ago, porina said:

I think mesh wasn't added until Skylake-X (X299). Haswell-E is still on ring cache.

Yes. It's still using ring cache.

 

Two home agents are added for better performance in high core count Xeon. Multicore performance improved a lot.

 

For i7 core counts, there's not much difference in terms of cache.

 

Memory controller is upgraded to DDR4 vs Ivy bridge, that's a plus.

[RONOTHAN##]

10 minutes ago, porina said:

I think mesh wasn't added until Skylake-X (X299). Haswell-E is still on ring cache.

yup, just looked it up, I misremembered when they switched over. It's been a while since I've used X99 for any sort of benching, all I remember is I tried overclocking a 5930K on a EVGA X99 FTW, it kept giving really weird issues (not booting the clocks I wanted, not scaling with voltage whatsoever (wouldn't boot above 4.2GHz no matter the voltage even though temps were fine), and other weird glitches I'm unsure to blame on the BIOS, the platform, or both) and I gave up after 2-3 hours, relegating that board and CPU to a family member's system where it's running at stock.

[Flavlus]

16 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

yup, just looked it up, I misremembered when they switched over. It's been a while since I've used X99 for any sort of benching, all I remember is I tried overclocking a 5930K on a EVGA X99 FTW, it kept giving really weird issues (not booting the clocks I wanted, not scaling with voltage whatsoever (wouldn't boot above 4.2GHz no matter the voltage even though temps were fine), and other weird glitches I'm unsure to blame on the BIOS, the platform, or both) and I gave up after 2-3 hours, relegating that board and CPU to a family member's system where it's running at stock.

I have it Both the 6700k and 5920k very stable at 4.5GHZ 
On the 5820k i just finished the oc and its happy there at 1.3V. 
4.6 was also happy but was pushing towards 1.4v before it was ok. And i would rather the lower temps for 100mhz difference

[Flavlus]

38 minutes ago, porina said:

I've owned both in the past. If gaming is a use case, and you're ok with overclocking, I'd pick the X99 system because 4 cores aren't enough for a decent experience in more modern games. The stock performance of 5820k is limited due to low clock, and OC negates that disadvantage.

 

The difference on CPU pricing is simply because the 5820k is the lowest CPU on that socket, and the 6700k is 2nd higher CPU on its socket behind 7700k. Lots of 5820k are on the market from people upgrading X99 systems, but there is still demand for high end 6700k as people try to stretch out the life of their older systems.

 

I think mesh wasn't added until Skylake-X (X299). Haswell-E is still on ring cache.

 

Edit: 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/8423/intel-xeon-e5-version-3-up-to-18-haswell-ep-cores-/4

 

Haswell-E is a variation of server Haswell-EP. The low core count one on the right. They had multiple rings on higher core count models.

I have it Both the 6700k and 5920k very stable at 4.5GHZ 
On the 5820k i just finished the oc and its happy there at 1.3V. 
4.6 was also happy but was pushing towards 1.4v before it was ok. And i would rather the lower temps for 100mhz difference

Talking about prices i paid the same for both systems including ram 
$120 USD you can convert to your local currency. 
That was for i7-5820k, Asus x99-PRO and 4x4gb CL15 3000mhz Ram 
Second set was i7-6700k, Gigabyte Z170 , 2x8gb 266mhz 

Both i ran in my case and got stable overclocks at 4.5ghz
I didnt expect to get that much OC on the X99 so this threw me off on what to do HAHA 

Got stuck in which one to keep so I came here to ask the great comunity! 

[porina]

19 minutes ago, RONOTHAN## said:

it kept giving really weird issues (not booting the clocks I wanted, not scaling with voltage whatsoever (wouldn't boot above 4.2GHz no matter the voltage even though temps were fine)

Doesn't seem a problem for OP. Looking up my old OC results I was also benching mine at 4.5 GHz 1.3v if CPU-Z is reporting correctly (doesn't always). I vaguely recall the memory ratios didn't have so many options so wonder if that contributed to your previous problems.

 

3 minutes ago, Flavlus said:

I didnt expect to get that much OC on the X99 so this threw me off on what to do HAHA 

Haswell was a great overclocking generation. You mentioned looking at Broadwell earlier, that doesn't clock as well so I'd suggest skipping that. Hardly gets above 4.0 GHz.

 

As I said earlier, for gaming I'd take a 5820k at 4.5 GHz over 6700k at 4.5 GHz. For more demanding modern games quad core is going to be limiting, so even if 6700k is slightly better from IPC, I don't think that makes up for having the extra cores.

[jaslion]

Personallg the 5820k. We are moving to more and more cores needed and the 6700k is meetig the current minimum 8 threads needed for smooth operation.

 

The current consoles will push that once last gen finally falls away.

 

So whilst max fps will be lower it will be quite a bit more stable.

 

However id just sell both and get a ryzen 5600, b550 and whatever ddr4 fits in the budget. Waaaay faster anyways

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, porina said:

As I said earlier, for gaming I'd take a 5820k at 4.5 GHz over 6700k at 4.5 GHz. For more demanding modern games quad core is going to be limiting, so even if 6700k is slightly better from IPC, I don't think that makes up for having the extra cores.

Absolutly this

[porina]

I just skimmed the old thread that was posted earlier here. I'd caution that was started one week less than 7 years ago. Ryzen hadn't been released yet, and we were still very much in the quad core era. The games of that time are very different from the games of today, which can definitely use more than quad cores efficiently. I'm even seeing scaling above 8 cores, but that's another story.

 

6 minutes ago, jaslion said:

However id just sell both and get a ryzen 5600, b550 and whatever ddr4 fits in the budget. Waaaay faster anyways

OP said each bundle cost US$120 equivalent. So total price for both is less than what I could buy the above two new, without any ram. It may be faster but it will cost quite a bit more.

[Flavlus]

6 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Personallg the 5820k. We are moving to more and more cores needed and the 6700k is meetig the current minimum 8 threads needed for smooth operation.

 

The current consoles will push that once last gen finally falls away.

 

So whilst max fps will be lower it will be quite a bit more stable.

 

However id just sell both and get a ryzen 5600, b550 and whatever ddr4 fits in the budget. Waaaay faster anyways

Looked at a 5600 build but for seome reason prices are still really high here. 

For MOBO, CPU and RAM say 16gb it would cost me around $350 - $400 usd 
This was $120 USD. Is the price difference worth it for now? Or wait a couple years and then upgrade to a user 5600 system?

[Flavlus]

5 minutes ago, porina said:

I just skimmed the old thread that was posted earlier here. I'd caution that was started one week less than 7 years ago. Ryzen hadn't been released yet, and we were still very much in the quad core era. The games of that time are very different from the games of today, which can definitely use more than quad cores efficiently. I'm even seeing scaling above 8 cores, but that's another story.

 

OP said each bundle cost US$120 equivalent. So total price for both is less than what I could buy the above two new, without any ram. It may be faster but it will cost quite a bit more.

I also read through some older threads but back then a 4core i5 was fine for gaming since games basically maced out at 4 core and got minimal gains past that.

Yup just to clarify I paid $240 USD for both sets from differnt sellers. Now debating selling one set. I think ill end up sticking with the 5820k . Who knows maybe a cheap 6850k will pop up on my local market and make a good upgrade. but maybe not if it wont overclock well

[porina]

6 minutes ago, Flavlus said:

Who knows maybe a cheap 6850k will pop up on my local market and make a good upgrade.

It probably wont overclock as well and end up reduce your gaming performance. Maybe keep an eye open for a higher Haswell model but even that probably isn't worth it. 5930k only gets you more PCIe lanes, and 5960X is gonna be expensive.

 

Edit: I'm wrong on 5960X. Looks like X99 market is totally fallen. I'm seeing a buy-it-now one on ebay UK for £30 (US$37), although others are double that.

[Flavlus]

2 minutes ago, porina said:

It probably wont overclock as well and end up reduce your gaming performance. Maybe keep an eye open for a higher Haswell model but even that probably isn't worth it. 5930k only gets you more PCIe lanes, and 5960X is gonna be expensive.

Yeah i heard the 5930k might overclock a little higher but also might not Considering my stock boost clock was 3.6 and now im at 4.5  thats allready a massive jump. Better than my i7-2600k that couldnt hold more than 4.2ghz for any reason. I think i lost the lottery on that one. 
Then my 4770k Was not stable above 4ghz untill i delid it then it was ok 4.2 and its still an old DDR3 system. Meh. Im selling that and moving on

[porina]

2 minutes ago, Flavlus said:

Yeah i heard the 5930k might overclock a little higher but also might not Considering my stock boost clock was 3.6 and now im at 4.5  thats allready a massive jump. 

In case you missed the edit, I note the 5960X pricing where I am seems to have collapsed. If you see one locally to you that'll get you to 8 cores and would be a bigger jump than a possibly marginal clock from 5930k. I'd still avoid Broadwell as they didn't clock well.

[jaslion]

1 hour ago, Flavlus said:

I also read through some older threads but back then a 4core i5 was fine for gaming since games basically maced out at 4 core and got minimal gains past that.

Yup just to clarify I paid $240 USD for both sets from differnt sellers. Now debating selling one set. I think ill end up sticking with the 5820k . Who knows maybe a cheap 6850k will pop up on my local market and make a good upgrade. but maybe not if it wont overclock well

In 2017 everything changed and by 2018 most new games started running quite cruddily on a pure 4 core.

 

A good few games that have kept being updated like for example gta V started running worse with stuttering on quad cores a year or 2 after ryzen disrupted the market.