Apple's new MacBook Pro with M2 Max packs up to 96GB of RAM (also: Mac mini M2)

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, hishnash said:

I still don't see how the device will detect that the person clicking `ignore` not he lock is working for a ligit recycling centre and is not just a regular theif (who is not reporting it of cource). 

What do you even mean? The point is that after time, a really long time of nobody ever logging in to the device successfully the device will then allow it to be wiped. Like I said I have no issue with that only being able to be done in an Apple store for like $30 or w/e, but it should be possible. I would prefer anyone can do it but I doubt Apple will allow it that way.

 

But if you try and brute force the password then simply reset the counter and make them wait another 3 months or whatever. Sitting on stolen goods is a risk, longer you have the more likely you are to be found with it. And even then it's very likely to just be sold as is and the buyer complains back to them they can't get in to it, in which case it's too late anyway. Hence why I'd rather allow wiping at some point because you may never find the owner, you may never be able to contact them, you may never find the thief again and you have a person who paid money for something they cannot use nor recover their money. Not everyone is going to know they are buying a stolen item and it's locked and therefore unusable. 

[hishnash]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

The point is that after time, a really long time of nobody ever logging in to the device successfully the device will then allow it to be wiped.

local on device clocks are trivial to bypass. You need a centralise server to do this. 

[leadeater]

23 minutes ago, hishnash said:

local on device clocks are trivial to bypass. You need a centralise server to do this. 

No you don't need one. Also it's not really that trivial unless you do nothing to prevent it. By the time someone has wiped the time from the device then you can know for sure it's stolen. Simply store the last known time at boot, if current boot date is in the past and the device is locked then don't allow wipe.

 

If the whole point is to prevent stolen devices being wiped, which by the time months have passed, no brute force passwords have been attempted and the device hasn't been opened and clock battery de-soldered I'm pretty sure it's not stolen or the impact so low it's not worth worrying about.

 

But again you're literally only defending creation of e-waste, inability to re-use devices and not in any way defending encrypted data. At no point ever does data encryption require device locking.

 

If I have zero chance of ever getting my device back I'd rather it be usable, simple as that. It's gone, I'm not getting it back.

[saltycaramel]

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

Nothing is perfect in life

 

This also applies to your “thieves today just grab whatever they see and check later, some thieves always will, so let’s not even try to change their habits” argument.

 

It’s a non-perfect cat&mouse game on both sides…I still believe culturally engraining in society the inevitability of stolen smart goods (even smart cars in the near future) becoming paperweights is a great concept…then to prevent it from becoming e-waste it could be wiped&unlocked centrally by the manufacturer for the current full (used) price of the good minus a little “thank you for bringing this to recycling” discount that should be small enough to make theft not worth it. 

[saltycaramel]

I care far more about discouraging crime in the long run than about some old devices (frankly a small percentage in the grand scheme of things, that’s sad but true) still being usable.

 

And btw that’s a service Apple is offering their customers, even if “Apple is not the police”. 

 

Not even the police is the police in most cases and with low value items, since they can’t be particularly helpful.

 

By that logic we should also argue against “Find my” and any device lock because “finders keepers, Apple is not the police”..

[leadeater]

28 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

This also applies to your “thieves today just grab whatever they see and check later, some thieves always will, so let’s not even try to change their habits” argument.

No, not it does not apply to that. You argument is you want perfection, you want to make an impossible change. Let me ask you this, have wars stopped? Has much of human behavior every really changed throughout history?

 

We don't live in Star Trek Federation universe sadly. I choose to accept that reality.

[saltycaramel]

2 minutes ago, leadeater said:

No, not it does not apply to that. You argument is you want perfection, you want to make an impossible change. Let me ask you this, have wars stopped? Has much of human behavior every really changed throughout history?

 

We don't live in Star Trek Federation universe sadly. I choose to accept that reality.

 

You want perfection, as exemplified by what you said after “you want perfection”.

[leadeater]

20 minutes ago, saltycaramel said:

You want perfection, as exemplified by what you said after “you want perfection”.

Nope, you specifically and only are the one wanting to make the impossible change. Allowing devices to be wiped is 100% not impossible. No argument to be had there.

 

Raise all the objections you like to why you think it shouldn't allowed but it is categorically not impossible. However you want and believe you can change human behavior that has not once in history ever changed. 

 

Theft rates of cellphones has not gone down and isn't trending down. If Apple's efforts at device security were having any effect the data would show it, it doesn't, since they are and have been the most stolen phones.

 

Anyway I think we are or should be done discussing this. All it sounds to me is "but think of the children" type of objections and I don't value that type of thing enough to discuss it. It's not like I have a problem with device locking itself and I have no problem with arguments defending it, I just don't think it shouldn't be possible to remove it ever and I don't think Apple should be the one with the ultimate power and control over that.

[saltycaramel]

https://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/iphone-theft-decline-attributed-to-activation-lock-feature

 

uh-oh..

[mr moose]

Most thefts of said devices are by drug addicts, those guys don't plan beyond which house/car and they certainly don't know the difference between an encrypted imac and a fucking etchysketch.

 

Source:  part of my many years work with underprivileged people and drug offenders.

[saltycaramel]

In God we trust, all others must bring data.

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

https://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/iphone-theft-decline-attributed-to-activation-lock-feature

 

uh-oh..

 

Quote

The objective of the report is to present a comprehensive assessment of the market and contains thoughtful insights, facts, historical data, industry-validated market data and projections with a suitable set of assumptions and methodology. The report also helps in understanding the global mobile phone insurance ecosystem market dynamics, structure by identifying and analysing the market segments and project the global market size. Further, the report also focuses on the competitive analysis of key players by product, price, financial position, product portfolio, growth strategies, and regional presence. The report also provides PEST analysis, PORTER’s analysis, and SWOT analysis to address questions of shareholders to prioritizing the efforts and investment in the near future to the emerging segment in the global mobile phone insurance ecosystem market.

 

Mobile insurance needs protection coverage for devices against physical damage, lost or stolen devices, and malfunctions. Mobile phone insurance ecosystem is a network or an interconnected set of services or interconnected systems that allow users to fulfil a variety of needs in one integrated experience and contains insurance providers and customers. The ecosystem is used by insurers for providing enhanced and timely services to their consumers. It also helps customers to check important information accessible online.

 

Quote

Theft & loss insurance type segment has been estimated to account for highest market share in 2017 and is expected to continue its dominance during the forecast period, because of an increased incidence of theft of devices, clubbed with a growing introduction of high-cost mobile devices in the market.

https://www.maximizemarketresearch.com/market-report/global-mobile-phone-insurance-ecosystem-market/27586/

 

I have some advice, check the source of information. If one doesn't exist then it's probably opinion based not fact based.

 

Your source doesn't exist, Routers most likely retracted the article because it was incorrect. Notice how the link is dead...

[mr moose]

3 hours ago, saltycaramel said:

https://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/iphone-theft-decline-attributed-to-activation-lock-feature

 

uh-oh..

Since 2008 there has been a huge downward trend in stealing electronics across the board,  thieves have moved to sealing cash, cars and consumables instead of phones, tv's and electronics.

 

https://www.valuepenguin.com/burglaries-decrease-thieves-continue-find-value-in-stolen-goods

 

Maybe jewelry has some automated lockdown feature I don't know about.  but as I said earlier, most thefts are by drug effected people who don't think straight and take the easiest thing on offer.   I know one addict who organized to steal his own car so he could claim the insurance.  He forgot that he stopped paying the insurance, I had one guy break into my car and steal a $15 homemade inverter that was barely strong enough to run a shaver,  they left the money, my $300 router and half a dozen tools.

 

 

[mr moose]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

 

 

https://www.maximizemarketresearch.com/market-report/global-mobile-phone-insurance-ecosystem-market/27586/

 

I have some advice, check the source of information. If one doesn't exist then it's probably opinion based not fact based.

 

Your source doesn't exist, Routers most likely retracted the article because it was incorrect. Notice how the link is dead...

The only issue I have with insurance data is that they represent what people tell them,  phones aren't covered by insurance if you leave them on top of your car, they are covered if they are stolen or dropped in a toilet.  So I know what I would be telling the insurance company if my $1000 phone went for a swim or dive off the car.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

The only issue I have with insurance data is that they represent what people tell them,  phones aren't covered by insurance if you leave them on top of your car, they are covered if they are stolen or dropped in a toilet.  So I know what I would be telling the insurance company if my $1000 phone went for a swim or dive off the car.

It's not just insurance claim data, that's not how insurance companies do risk assessments like that. The cost of insurance for my car changes depending on my address because they use crime data.

 

The report at the very start outlines the types of data sources they use.

 

It also doesn't change that multiple different reports all show the same thing anyway and the leading cause of device theft, ~60% consistently for years, is misplacing it. People simply leave their phones by mistake and then someone picks it up and takes it. Temptation mindset isn't going to change because the phone might have a passcode on it.

[saltycaramel]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

 

 

https://www.maximizemarketresearch.com/market-report/global-mobile-phone-insurance-ecosystem-market/27586/

 

I have some advice, check the source of information. If one doesn't exist then it's probably opinion based not fact based.

 

Your source doesn't exist, Routers most likely retracted the article because it was incorrect. Notice how the link is dead...

 

Widely reported:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/feb/11/london-smartphone-theft-drops-after-kill-switch-introduction-iphones

 

 

 

[leadeater]

6 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

Not in my country. The insurance companies have a tap on how much the claims were on all car models and all regions. If all other drivers of car model B are idiots, the rate goes up. If your neighbours in region X are bad drivers, your rate goes up.

If somebody damages your car, you have to file a report with the authorities and send that to the insurance (if you are insured for vandalism (fully comprehensive insurance)) to get anything. So they are only indirectly receiving crime data by insurance claims made.

That is also how it works. I didn't say it's only based on address but since we are talking crime the point was insurance companies look at many aspects. Simply being only a few blocks away can change insurance premiums. Street parking vs off street, in garage etc.

 

6 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

So they are only indirectly receiving crime data by insurance claims made.

They do not only limit the crime data to insurance claims. Why would you think this? Crime data is public information, insurance companies put in proper information requests and actually analyze this data.

 

Insurance companies leave no stone unturned. If they can find a reason to charge you more they will. If they can find a reason not to pay out to you they will. Insurance companies are some or the biggest data analyzers, anything even possibly remotely related is collected and analyzed.

[mr moose]

22 hours ago, leadeater said:

It's not just insurance claim data, that's not how insurance companies do risk assessments like that. The cost of insurance for my car changes depending on my address because they use crime data.

 

The report at the very start outlines the types of data sources they use.

 

It also doesn't change that multiple different reports all show the same thing anyway and the leading cause of device theft, ~60% consistently for years, is misplacing it. People simply leave their phones by mistake and then someone picks it up and takes it. Temptation mindset isn't going to change because the phone might have a passcode on it.

True, I had forgotten about that side of it.