Does Waterblock manufacturer make a difference?

[lemij31400]

So i just ordered an Alphacool Block for 2x RTX A5000 i have plans to cool in my server, and just was wondering if the block manafacturer actually matters and if i should of ordered the EK-Pro ones instead?
 

*heres what i ordered*
 

[Bombastinator]

Manufacturer can determine how well the water block works.  A water cooler has two. Radiators. One is water to air, which is the big one at the end of the hoses, but the other has one too.  It’s just much smaller and it’s what picks up the heat in the first place.  They’re tiny and making them work well is something of a black art.  Manufacturing can be very expensive. Often it’s not just manufacturer but manufacturer and model.  GN does a lot of water lock stuff.  Might be a good YouTube channel to peruse.

[Mick Naughty]

Shouldnt matter. Not when comparing good companies' full blocks. Can chance that 1-2c the experts say some blocks can do on the internet but haven't shown themselves. Wouldnt think twice about it. Other issues will come up before blaming the blocks.

[Bombastinator]

31 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Shouldnt matter. Not when comparing good companies' full blocks. Can chance that 1-2c the experts say some blocks can do on the internet but haven't shown themselves. Wouldnt think twice about it. Other issues will come up before blaming the blocks.

It’s varied historically.  Might be true right now though. More often than not there was one model that was head and shoulders above all the others.  That was before flow modeling got cheap though.  It might be they’re all the same now and will be going forward.  There used to be a bunch of really cheap chinese ones that were as good as the decent stuff at one point.  There was a guy here a while ago  that through carefull monitoring of sales and whatnot put together an entire functional custom loop for something like $100.  I don’t expect to see that twice though.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Mick Naughty]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

It’s varied historically.  Might be true right now though. More often than not there was one model that was head and shoulders above all the others.  That was before flow modeling got cheap though.  It might be they’re all the same now and will be going forward.  There used to be a bunch of really cheap chinese ones that were as good as the decent stuff at one point.  There was a guy here a while ago  that through carefull monitoring of sales and whatnot put together an entire functional custom loop for something like $100.  I don’t expect to see that twice though.

Havent seen any difference in the top full blocks since the 7xx series. All within margin of error. I dont know about cheap stuff or partial blocks or stuff older than I've used. I dont buy them or compare them as there isnt a point if it isnt fair.

[Bombastinator]

4 hours ago, Mick Naughty said:

Havent seen any difference in the top full blocks since the 7xx series. All within margin of error. I dont know about cheap stuff or partial blocks or stuff older than I've used. I dont buy them or compare them as there isnt a point if it isnt fair.

The Chinese stuff was all what you would call “partial” blocks.  More name changes.  The “partial” blocks were once call “full” blocks and the “full” blocks were once called “full coverage” blocks.  The dude in question would have done what might be considered a “hybrid” except back then vram and VRM wasn’t fast enough to need special cooling so it wasn’t really hybrid either because there weren’t any extra heat sinks or fans for the hybrid” bit.  It did use a cpu block on the gpu (they used to fit fine)  so it was effectively a two slot thing though. There have been all sorts of cpu block systems from nothing at all to little posts to skyved fins.  And perhaps half a dozen more I haven’t heard of.  This is how one fits a noctua dh14 on a gpu btw…. Had a sudden thought…. My 6800xt is too loud under load.  I’ve got a spare air cooler as well as two spare AIOs…I could old school it and maybe reduce the unacceptable amount of noise without underclocking my card…I could maybe even overclock it and still get reasonable noise levels when gaming…. Snacks for later.  I’ll look at it if and when an underclocked undervolted 6800xt isn’t enough for what I need to do…. Having more video card than I can use is sooooo cool!  

Edited November 4, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Mick Naughty]

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

The Chinese stuff was all what you would call “partial” blocks.  More name changes.  The “partial” blocks were once call “full” blocks and the “full” blocks were once called “full coverage” blocks.  The dude in question would have done what might be considered a “hybrid” except back then vram and VRM wasn’t fast enough to need special cooling so it wasn’t really hybrid either because there weren’t any extra heat sinks or fans for the hybrid” bit.  It did use a cpu block on the gpu (they used to fit fine)  so it was effectively a two slot thing though. There have been all sorts of cpu block systems from nothing at all to little posts to skyved fins.  And perhaps half a dozen more I haven’t heard of.  This is how one fits a noctua dh14 on a gpu btw.

I dont call it anything. It is what it is. Im not gonna recommend universal blocks for a scenario a full block would work. And not grouping them into the same thing. Some cheap chinese product and a universal ek block or the likes. Also really has nothing to do with what I'm taking about in general. Again, don't know, or care about using such a lesser product. This isnt the early 2000's, so no real relevance here. Focusing on the hardware in question here.

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

I dont call it anything. It is what it is. Im not gonna recommend universal blocks for a scenario a full block would work. And not grouping them into the same thing. Some cheap chinese product and a universal ek block or the likes. Also really has nothing to do with what I'm taking about in general. Again, don't know, or care about using such a lesser product. This isnt the early 2000's, so no real relevance here. Focusing on the hardware in question here.

Not recommend, no.  Full coverage blocks do work better… unless you can’t afford one.   The question becomes is a universal block and heat sinks with a fan on them better than a stock video card air cooler even if it isn’t as good as a full coverage block?  Might be handy anyway if the stock air cooler is so big it won’t fit in the case but the card without the cooler will, and there’s no budget for a prebuilt hybrid card which are a lot shorter.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Mick Naughty]

1 minute ago, Bombastinator said:

Not recommend, no.  Full coverage blocks do work better… unless you can’t afford one.   The question becomes is a universal block and heat sinks with a fan on them better than a stock video card air cooler?

That isnt the question. No one asked that. And op can afford a full block and already ordered it. So all of that has been answered already. The question is what was better than what they ordered, if anything.

[Bombastinator]

9 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

That isnt the question. No one asked that. And op can afford a full block and already ordered it. So all of that has been answered already. The question is what was better than what they ordered, if anything.

Well you sort of did.  Goes to definition of “better”.  Better performing or better cost at a given performance level. For full coverage blocks better raw performance all the way.  The OP’s question was if there were better fin designs.  There is also the question of whether “better” raw performance means more fps or less noise.  Sound wasn’t a component of the original question though. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Bombastinator

[thrasher_565]

people did the hybrid wc mod because it was cheaper and back then that was king. made the blower gpus WAY quieter and made them last thow you had to find a way to cool the vrms...

 

i think gpus blocks have jet plates in them now? back then flow rate was also king until the raystrom came along... and then it when stagnet more about looks then proforamce numbers

 

[Mick Naughty]

7 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Well you sort of did.  Goes to definition of “better”.  Better performing or better cost at a given performance level. For full coverage blocks better raw performance all the way.  The OP’s question was if there were better fin designs.  There is also the question of whether “better” raw performance means more fps or less noise.  Sound wasn’t a component of the original question though. 

Op didn’t ask any specifics. Just ask if there was something better. 
so going off such a broad question, the answer was no. 

[Bombastinator]

12 minutes ago, Mick Naughty said:

Op didn’t ask any specifics. Just ask if there was something better. 
so going off such a broad question, the answer was no. 

We’ll sort of.  He asked if he should order a different but specific one instead.  If they’re all the same there may be a no-name with equal capacity.  But the EK has even more name recognition, so is probably even more expensive for no gain.  

[Bombastinator]

2 hours ago, thrasher_565 said:

people did the hybrid wc mod because it was cheaper and back then that was king. made the blower gpus WAY quieter and made them last thow you had to find a way to cool the vrms...

 

i think gpus blocks have jet plates in them now? back then flow rate was also king until the raystrom came along... and then it when stagnet more about looks then proforamce numbers

 

I think cheaper will be king again.  I have found I just have no use for a cpu bigger than a 12700.  I even undervolted and downclocked my 6800xt because even at 4k it was pushing more fps than I had use for.  I spent too much, and it’s not even a high end machine.

[Mick Naughty]

1 hour ago, Bombastinator said:

We’ll sort of.  He asked if he should order a different but specific one instead.  If they’re all the same there may be a no-name with equal capacity.  But the EK has even more name recognition, so is probably even more expensive for no gain.  

If such a block existed, you should have told them. Ek wouldn’t be the most expensive assuming other name

brands offer a full block that fits. 

[Bombastinator]

6 hours ago, Mick Naughty said:

If such a block existed, you should have told them. Ek wouldn’t be the most expensive assuming other name

brands offer a full block that fits. 

Would have if I could have, but I don’t know water blocks well enough to do that, as I tried to make clear. As for name brands you’ll notice I used the phrase “no-name”.  It’s like you’re trying really really hard to find fault with my comment for reasons I don’t understand but consistently fail to actually do it in a functional way.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Mick Naughty]

4 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Would have if I could have, but I don’t know water blocks well enough to do that, as I tried to make clear. As for name brands you’ll notice I used the phrase “no-name”.  It’s like you’re trying really really hard to find fault with my comment for reasons I don’t understand but consistently fail to actually do it in a functional way.

Well thats what you are doing, so I'm just trying to figure out the point you're trying to make in helping op get what they are asking for.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Mick Naughty said:

Well thats what you are doing, so I'm just trying to figure out the point you're trying to make in helping op get what they are asking for.

Nooo, you were the one who came at me. 

[Mick Naughty]

6 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Nooo, you were the one who came at me. 

I posted on the op's thread. You replied to me.

[lemij31400]

On 11/4/2022 at 7:38 AM, Bombastinator said:

Manufacturer can determine how well the water block works.  A water cooler has two. Radiators. One is water to air, which is the big one at the end of the hoses, but the other has one too.  It’s just much smaller and it’s what picks up the heat in the first place.  They’re tiny and making them work well is something of a black art.  Manufacturing can be very expensive. Often it’s not just manufacturer but manufacturer and model.  GN does a lot of water lock stuff.  Might be a good YouTube channel to peruse.

Thanks! Just watched GN and some Jayz2Cents, seem pretty intresting, not much of a gamer so their channels have been something i kind of avoided, but they have helped me learn quite a bit so far for this loop design/build

 

 

*also seems the chat went kind of toxic, not sure what happened, sorry guys if i confused yall*

[lemij31400]

22 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

Well you sort of did.  Goes to definition of “better”.  Better performing or better cost at a given performance level. For full coverage blocks better raw performance all the way.  The OP’s question was if there were better fin designs.  There is also the question of whether “better” raw performance means more fps or less noise.  Sound wasn’t a component of the original question though. 

Honestly anything quiter than the stock noise from these blower fans is all i needed, been running 2x A5000 blower cards in my desktop and 2x in my server and its a nightmare when i got both machines under fuill load, so quiter would be nice

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, lemij31400 said:

Thanks! Just watched GN and some Jayz2Cents, seem pretty intresting, not much of a gamer so their channels have been something i kind of avoided, but they have helped me learn quite a bit so far for this loop design/build

 

 

*also seems the chat went kind of toxic, not sure what happened, sorry guys if i confused yall*

Not your fault.

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, Mick Naughty said:

I posted on the op's thread. You replied to me.

..and agreed with you.  I added some detail about why that wasn’t always the case but could well be right now.  Then you got on my case for doing it. 

[Bombastinator]

1 hour ago, lemij31400 said:

Honestly anything quiter than the stock noise from these blower fans is all i needed, been running 2x A5000 blower cards in my desktop and 2x in my server and its a nightmare when i got both machines under fuill load, so quiter would be nice

You could do it with hybrid AIOs or full coverage AIOs (if there even are any for that card) or custom loop.  Custom loop can be quite expensive to build and a bit of a pain to take care of but has been the ultimate “quiet power” solution for many years. The a5000 isn’t all that common in the enthusiast space.  I have no idea how well served it is. “Full” or “full coverage” blocks generally go by card manufacturer and model since the whole reference cooler system is dead and gone. One big issue is where to put the parts though.  For AIOs there are radiators.  For custom loop there are radiators, a pump, and a resovoir. (AIOs are just premanufactured resovoirless custom loops with the pump integrated into the system. Generally on the cold plate or in the radiator)  AIOs can be bad about bubbles which can be annoying because of their resovoirless system. Because they are sealed though they can use exotic liquids for cooling and therefore tend to last longer without maintenance. 

Edited November 5, 2022 by Bombastinator

[Mick Naughty]

32 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

..and agreed with you.  I added some detail about why that wasn’t always the case but could well be right now.  Then you got on my case for doing it. 

And I said I never used any of it or know about it. That isnt getting on your case.