denon ah-d9200 amp/dac needed?

[shrris]

Hi, im wondering if i need any equipment for the denon ah d9200 headphones i got them from my uncle they are currently connected with 3,5mm to my pc was wondering if a pc can get the full potential out of them or do i need some audio equip for them to sound even better 

[fuzz0r]

Those are some serious headphones, holy moly.

I mean it depends what your needs are and budget I'd say.

If we're talking specs wise then no your motherboard might not be enough depending on model.

Most modern motherboards have decent enough onboard sound.

EDIT: I guess what I was boiling it down to is that you're not going to get the most out of them by hooking them up directly to your MB.

And yes you'd probably need some serious audio gear to drive those in a way that they are suited for.

[shrris]

on normal headphones i would say whatever he came to my house dropped some old tech and said if you can use some good if not throw them in the trash (he specifically said don't throw the headphones away if you don't need them sell them) btw my mb is an z690 torpedo from msi on audio gear i would say im willing to pay up to 500$ ( i know in the audio world it's not much) 

[person123456789]

1 hour ago, shrris said:

Hi, im wondering if i need any equipment for the denon ah d9200 headphones i got them from my uncle they are currently connected with 3,5mm to my pc was wondering if a pc can get the full potential out of them or do i need some audio equip for them to sound even better 

to get the most potential out of them, you definitely want an amp and dac but i would advise you to try to test the headphone without an amp and dac to see if the motherboard audio is good enough for you

[shrris]

44 minutes ago, Piecku said:

It’s extremely easy to run so an external amplifier isn’t necessary. But if I were you I’d get something external anyway for a better experience with a nice volume knob to turn. You could buy a Topping L30 or L30II. Keep in mind that more expensive doesn’t equal audibly better in the DAC/amplifier world. A Topping L30/L30II should sound audibly transparent, meaning you can’t actually get better sounding gear. By better in this case I mean more accurate.

 

Edit: I forgot to say that the L30 is just an amplifier, not a DAC as well. So I’d recommend the Topping DX3 Pro+ instead. It’s a very fancy combo and you don’t need anything else (except a USB A to B cable).

atm there is a 15% sale on amazon for the Topping DX3 Pro+  i think i will order it and try it out  do i need a dac or an amp if i see correctly from the amazon page the dac is not active with an 3,5mm jack 

[Motifator]

The Topping looks to have a 3.5mm jack for the headphones, these cans are seemingly 6.3 with the regular cable. Sure, you could use a little 6.3 to 3.5mm, but when you pull the cans hard physically, you might lose connection partly (pops) or all together. 3.5mm and converters don't always work well compared to a direct 6.3 in.

There's the Motu M2 I used to replace my DAC for my speakers. Its speaker stage is better, but for what you get, the headphone section ain't bad at all either.

If you could make use of the interface, like with a mic, or the other features... it's a good contender at $200.

[Motifator]

Just now, Piecku said:

The 6,3 mm is just a screw-on. You can screw it off and there's a 3,5 mm underneath.

Yeah I'm still not big on 3.5's, they tend to plug out or hiss too quickly. This is why better instruments / equipment always use 6.3. Such as guitar amps, processor, keyboards etc etc...

[shrris]

There are 2 cables the 3 meter Long is 6.3 and the 1,5meter is 3.5 with 6.3 Screw in 

[Motifator]

1 minute ago, shrris said:

There are 2 cables the 3 meter Long is 6.3 and the 1,5meter is 3.5 with 6.3 Screw in 

1.5m may be more problematic, you might want the 3m for routing. Like when you're going back and just doing something else with the headphone on your head.

[shrris]

What should i get the motus or the toppin 

[Motifator]

The Motu is bit different, it's an interface like I said. If you'll make use of those features, such as an XLR mic, it might make sense. It's also got an amazing speaker section for what it's worth. Both regarding passive RCA outs and the active 6.3 / XLR connections.

A standalone DAC like the Toppin would be dedicated more for the headphones. It might sound a bit better, but the Motu has a bright tone too. I'd also recommend looking at DACs with 6.3mm headphone outs.

[shrris]

Just now, Motifator said:

The Motu is bit different, it's an interface like I said. If you'll make use of those features, such as an XLR mic, it might make sense. It's also got an amazing speaker section for what it's worth. Both regarding passive RCA outs and the active 6.3 / XLR connections.

A standalone DAC like the Toppin would be dedicated more for the headphones. It might sound a bit better, but the Motu has a bright tone too. I'd also recommend looking at DACs with 6.3mm headphone outs.

currently not planning to add an mic to my setup im a bit confussed about the topping dac does it work with 3,5mm would love to look at 6,3mm dacs but im an absolute audio noob 

[Motifator]

14 minutes ago, shrris said:

currently not planning to add an mic to my setup im a bit confussed about the topping dac does it work with 3,5mm would love to look at 6,3mm dacs but im an absolute audio noob 

That means you can't see sampling rate (48, 192 Khz etc), and you can't adjust volume from the knob on the DAC? Should be something like that. There are some limitations here with using 3.5mm.

I'd look elsewhere if those bother you.

[shrris]

13 minutes ago, Motifator said:

That means you can't see sampling rate (48, 192 Khz etc), and you can't adjust volume from the knob on the DAC? Should be something like that. There are some limitations here with using 3.5mm.

I'd look elsewhere if those bother you.

i dont think that not seeing the sampling rate and adjusting volume via the knob would be a downside for me i assume a decently priced 6,3mm dac isnt out there?

[Motifator]

2 minutes ago, shrris said:

i dont think that not seeing the sampling rate and adjusting volume via the knob would be a downside for me i assume a decently priced 6,3mm dac isnt out there?

There are many DACs out there, 6.3 is well existent, headphone devices are not my profession - I'm more speakers, but given the amount of Asian products out there, it shouldn't be overly hard to find a DAC around 250 bucks which fits this criteria.

[shrris]

17 minutes ago, Motifator said:

There are many DACs out there, 6.3 is well existent, headphone devices are not my profession - I'm more speakers, but given the amount of Asian products out there, it shouldn't be overly hard to find a DAC around 250 bucks which fits this criteria.

any rough ideas in what  points/ featues i should be looking for in a dac 

[NinJake]

If you haven't already heard of, definitely give schiit audio a go. They have an excellent array of audio gear. If you're not huge into the "audiophile" world, the schiit stack should more than suffice. (aka the schiit modi and magni)

[Motifator]

1 hour ago, shrris said:

any rough ideas in what  points/ featues i should be looking for in a dac 

Agreed with the above post for the most part, Schiit.

Though, I'd ask some questions here. Do you want BT / wireless connectivity, will any speakers be driven at all and how much are you willing to spend maximally?

[shrris]

4 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Agreed with the above post for the most part, Schiit.

Though, I'd ask some questions here. Do you want BT / wireless connectivity, will any speakers be driven at all and how much are you willing to spend maximally?

bt/wireless is not needed and only headphones my max is atm about 400-600 euro if possible more on the low side 

[Motifator]

2 minutes ago, shrris said:

bt/wireless is not needed and only headphones my max is atm about 400-600 euro if possible more on the low side 

If you don't want a stack, you can easily find singular unit combos. Fiio make some on the higher end now, there have been a few down TPU reviews and they seem to be good for that price echelon.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/fiio-k5-pro-ess-desktop-dac-amplifier/

[person123456789]

i would recommend something from topping

[Psittac]

I honestly don't know what I would put behind a pair of headphones that expensive.  I mean I have the DAC for it (SMSL SU-9) but I wouldn't be sure if my amp's are clean enough to do those justice.

 

There is a limit of diminishing returns in audio, partly that you end up spending a lot more to get a little more and partly because some people just can't tell the difference enough to make the price tag worth it.  My philosophy is to have many different experiences available to you so you don't get bored of it.  DMS stated in a recent video that your brain adjusts to a setup and everything that made it special is pretty much gone after enough time.  When you change headphones from time to time you get to relearn what you loved about them.  Seeing as you've come at this backwards I would recommend getting used to them on your PC first, then get an amp and see what that improves, last get a DAC and see what that improves.  My thinking on this is if you throw a budget at it twice over an extended period of time you can get higher end components each go and do something like those justice.  Though I know literally nothing about them other than their price tag.  Maybe watch some reviews of the headphones and see if they talk about a good way to power them.

 

All of this is considering that you want to make a hobby or past time out of this, typically you don't know what your missing in the audio world until you experience something better so it's not that everyone is saying you can't run them onboard rather it's a shame to have an audio chain that lopsided. Perhaps look into selling them and putting that money and your current budget into a more balanced setup? With perhaps two pairs of good headphones?

 

At any rate the cabling issue that was discussed throughout this thread is easily solved with a custom cable from Periapt Cables or Hart Audio Cables  and don't be afraid to custom order, they don't mark it up for the service and charge going rates depending on what you order.  Periapt is thick quality cabling with a heft to it, Hart is light weight and quality with a modular approach for multiple pairs of headpones.

[Psittac]

1 minute ago, Piecku said:

There isn't really anything such as 'doing them justice'. You can get $200 combos that sounds as good as audibly possible. Fancy headphones don't *scale* with more expensive gear, and more expensive gear doesn't mean better. Something that measures beyond audibility is all he/she needs to get the best sound possible, and the Topping DX3+ Pro does just that. As for the cable, I don't see what the issue is. He/she already has the required cable/connector. 

That's an opinion, one that many would disagree with.  There is some merit to it but there are certainly headphones that scale well with improvements in the chain.  The biggest changes are headphones (pads too), source material then dac and amp.  dac and amp can certainly be utility whether that's features of a dac or power of an amp, but scaling is certainly a thing, look at the 6xx family.  I will admit that I haven't put large amount's behind any one component other than my dac, but I certainly noticed an improvement when I upgraded dac's.  I can also safely say that I've seen improvements running XLR vs SE from the same dac/amp, granted not huge improvements but they were noticeable.

 

You have a point that there is a critical mass with audio equipment, no one says there aren't diminishing returns.  Also I will say that I have to actually focus on the same audio clip over and over to notice changes from one dac and amp combo to another.  Some of the changes are huge like going from a Fosi Q4 to even onboard audio, some of them are small like going from a $500 dac/amp combo to a dac and amp that together cost $800 but the differences are there.  Audio by nature is not 1's and 0's and the different implementations of going from 1's and 0's to analogue is going to have an impact.

[Psittac]

5 hours ago, Piecku said:

Of course you noticed an improvement with sighted listening. You probably paid better attention during your listens. I used to be like that to, but I came to realise it doesn't even make sense, and I can absolutely not distinguish them in proper blind comparisons. The XLR vs SE improvement was most likely a difference in volume as true balanced has more power output. I don't see any merit here, certainly not any proof which people always refuse to have. Your ears are not adequate to determining if transparent measuring DAC 1 is better than transparent measuring DAC 2. While I do agree with the hedonic treadmill thing, one of the reasons I can imagine that happens a lot to audiophiles is because whatever they buy don't actually objectively sound better, so all they're experiencing is a short lasting purchasing euphoria. I wouldn't plant the idea that transparent equipment actually sounds different into the idea of newcomers (sorry if you aren't, OP), especially not on this forum which I assume(?) is more scientific and proof based.

I have many headphones and a few non tube amp's to choose from.  And I can say that I can see differences up and down the chain.  None of this "short lasting purchase euphoria" that you speak of.  Yes my Rode NTH-100 is a "new to me high" but that seat of the pant's feeling of wanting to put on those new headphones over and over and over again..... should say something. 

 

I have no dog in the race, I have THOUSANDS of dollars in my collection if I include cables.... and if something doesn't tickle my pickle the first second of fourth time I'm going to say it.  What you have to realize is that my collection isn't A over B, it's A or B.  Most everything I have is in the $300 or less category and I'm not looking for "better", I'm looking for "different".  But you know what I've learned along the way?  There IS an improvement to be had.  Whether that's a $9 apple dongle or a $500 stand alone, I appreciate everything in-between and do my best to express what my meat receivers can tell.

 

Just so you're aware, I adjusted for volume with my balanced vs SE experience to the best of my ability.  And while I'm not the end all and be all of entry-fi/mid-fi I do my best.  But what I'm not going to do is say that $200 will get you THE BEST SOUND you can have because it's simply not true.

 

I have checked the schiit stack box and noted the difference when compared to a $500 dac/amp.  And I sold it.  Is that because it wasn't adequate? NO!  My god a Schiit stack, topping stack or a fiio combo will do everything the typical person needs.  Hell I'm willing to believe that creative has solutions that will give a GREAT experience because of other members on this forum.  But if you want me to say that there is absolutely NOTHING to be had past $250....... You're going to get a solid nope from me.

[shrris]

i ordered a couple options try them and look which i like more ordered:

Topping DX3 Pro+

Schiit stack 

S.M.S.L SU-9

Motu M2

thank you all for your help i will be reading future comments on them and inform myself a bit on my free time meanwhile i will test them and report which i liked more