The infamous reddit mod now prevents any LTT support criticism

[GameRetro]

The title is a bit clickbaity but accurate none the less.

 

I’ve been very vocal in my criticism of the way the reddit sub r/LinusTechTips is being moderated right now, and this is another in a string of (in my opinion) bad decisions. 

 

 

Many here don’t care about reddit or even are against discussing things related to the sub because it’s “unofficial” but alas at least a few people have been likewise vocal against censorship on there and in general so I thought it’s worth to make a post about it. Especially since the reddit mod can’t delete it and ban people for discussing his bad modding on here. 

[Ravendarat]

It isnt ANY criticism, just criticism over wait times that is kind of beating a dead horse so I kinda get it. But at that same time censorship is generally never a good thing

[GameRetro]

I especially don’t like the modding. They could handle this in a variety of different ways (weekly pinned megathreads for example) but instead they opted to prevent any further discussion and thus criticism of LTT in regards to support. 

 

I know people can come here to complain and they usually get taken care of but still… it is slowly transitioning to making that sub an echo chamber. And the mod is consistently taking the “my sub, my way” approach. 

[GuiltySpark_]

I fail to understand why this matters. What is the purpose of complaining multiple times about the support? It just clutters up the front page, glad they're just purging more of those useless posts. What do those complainers expect to happen from their post?

[GameRetro]

Here’s a rhetorical: What’s the point of any posts there?

 

Mostly linus lookalike posts or latest video posts etc. Do we really wanna complain about one pattern post but ignore others then?

 

The point is people want to feel validated. They’ve been promised awesome support but they feel like they are being ignored. And that’s valid. 

 

Also the point is to have the right picture of the state of support right now. Criticism or concern should not be censored but readilu available for someone to find. 

 

It’s not an argument that “you can go on twitter, find nick lights account and you’ll see them acknowledge this”. If it’s something that someone felt they wanna share I should be able to see it and then I can decide to downvote or upvote it or ignore it. That’s reddit.

[GuiltySpark_]

4 minutes ago, GameRetro said:

Here’s a rhetorical: What’s the point of any posts there?

 

You've made a good point, its just memes otherwise. 

That is why this forum is infinitely better, actual technical discussion. Just don't go there, problem solved. Surely you have better things to do than worry about useless posts on a unofficial subreddit.

[GameRetro]

Hey I get it and yeah I’m sometimes kinda stubborn for principles and ethics and morals and such haha and have the luxury of boredom and some extra time on my hands from time to time to participate on reddit and twitter. And in general I don’t like when things like this go unchecked or unrivaled. 

 

I just joined the forum recently and it’s a great forum. Hope to get to discuss various things here with a lot of cool people~

[IRMacGuyver]

Just remember that even though it says it's "unofficial" LTT staff are mods there so it's just as official as these forums in reality. 

[GameRetro]

1 hour ago, IRMacGuyver said:

Just remember that even though it says it's "unofficial" LTT staff are mods there so it's just as official as these forums in reality. 

 

I’m more keen to believe the LTT staff mods really haven’t (yet) been involved in any sub decisions directly than believe that this main/only mod guy is unbiased. At this point he is showing such an absurd level of favorism towards anything pro LTT (he did say a few weeks back in an announcement for the state of the sub that the sub is for sharing our love for LTT lol).

 

That paired with some shirts or merch the mods have gotten over the years (as disclosed by this mod recently), and the fact he’s communicated with LTT personal frequently and may consider some of them close or internet friends might have skewed his perception to the point that he’s a massive fanboy. 

 

This would be my assumption and given he admitted he’s the sole active mod, and that he’s insistent on sticking to his decisions and even banning people that think differently - that’s the thing that worries me there. 

[TetraSky]

The problem with reddit, people don't bother looking up if an existing thread exist, so they make a new one. This results in hundreds of threads asking and complaining about the same thing, cluttering up the subreddit (Just have to see the "dbrand controversy" on the SteamDeck subreddit as an example on this). So I totally get where they are coming from. They could just pin one at the top for people to post their complaints in.

 

Also, keep in mind... The forum and subreddit are two different entities and the subreddit is not an official part of LMG. Only the Discord is official and I'm sure the mods on Discord (and here) will also be tired of hearing about complaints when there's obvious reasons to explain them that were stated hundreds of times before (on here, the mods would likely merge these threads together).
Due to high volumes of orders, they are SWAMPED. They just launched their two biggest products yet nearly at the same time.

Even if they have a lot of employees now, they can't handle thousands of support requests in a timely manner.

Lets put some perspective on this. They've sold over 60 000 screwdrivers thus far. If even 1% of those orders need help, that's 600 requests for help.
Last I checked they had about 2 or 4 people dedicated to the support.
Assuming you want more than a generic copy/paste reply...
Lets say it takes at least 5 minutes per request, 2 people would clear this in 4 days, 8 hours shifts. While 4 people would take 2 days.
This is not including all the other requests for support that are coming in during that time as well (and for other items sold), nor if a request requires more than 1 reply and needs some back&forth.

As big as LMG is, they aren't Amazon. They are still not "BIG" enough to have hundreds of support staff who do nothing but reply to messages all day to clear out the backlog of support tickets

 

1 hour ago, IRMacGuyver said:

Just remember that even though it says it's "unofficial" LTT staff are mods there so it's just as official as these forums in reality. 

This is only in the event of something like doxxing and they need to act on it quickly if the reddit mods are asleep (they've said as much). They do not actually moderate anything on there otherwise.

[Needfuldoer]

"We're not talking about this anymore, deleted" looks like muting criticism, rather than the "I'm tired of the front page getting inundated with support response complaints, and threads complaining about the support response complaints" they (hopefully) mean.

 

If it were up to me, I'd keep all the response time posts corralled to a stickied thread. I'm not sure if Reddit lets mods merge posts together, but outright deleting them is probably fewer steps.

[GameRetro]

18 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

The problem with reddit, people don't bother looking up if an existing thread exist, so they make a new one. This results in hundreds of threads asking and complaining about the same thing, cluttering up the subreddit (Just have to see the "dbrand controversy" on the SteamDeck subreddit as an example on this). So I totally get where they are coming from. They could just pin one at the top for people to post their complaints in.

 

Also, keep in mind... The forum and subreddit are two different entities and the subreddit is not an official part of LMG. Only the Discord is official and I'm sure the mods on Discord (and here) will also be tired of hearing about complaints when there's obvious reasons to explain them that were stated hundreds of times before (on here, the mods would likely merge these threads together).
Due to high volumes of orders, they are SWAMPED. They just launched their two biggest products yet nearly at the same time.

Even if they have a lot of employees now, they can't handle thousands of support requests in a timely manner.

Lets put some perspective on this. They've sold over 60 000 screwdrivers thus far. If even 1% of those orders need help, that's 600 requests for help.
Last I checked they had about 2 or 4 people dedicated to the support.
Assuming you want more than a generic copy/paste reply...
Lets say it takes at least 5 minutes per request, 2 people would clear this in 4 days, 8 hours shifts. While 4 people would take 2 days.
This is not including all the other requests for support that are coming in during that time as well (and for other items sold), nor if a request requires more than 1 reply and needs some back&forth.

As big as LMG is, they aren't Amazon. They are still not "BIG" enough to have hundreds of support staff who do nothing but reply to messages all day to clear out the backlog of support tickets

 

This is only in the event of something like doxxing and they need to act on it quickly if the reddit mods are asleep (they've said as much). They do not actually moderate anything on there otherwise.

 

There are very valid points in the linked reddit thread, I'll just name a few that address some of what you said (even if it's offtopic to the subjecto of this thread):

 

- They've been preparing for the launch of Backpack and Screwdriver for years now, they probably knew the volume they were going to order (even if they didn't know they were going to sell many) way in advance - they could have gotten more support reps.

 

- There are open positions job listings but there are people in the reddit thread stating they are reps with 20 years of experience, and they had applied a while back but haven't heard back anything.

 

- Plenty people have said that you don't even have to respond to the ticket directly but just replying with a "we're swarmed, but please be sure we'll take care of you" or for example with a queue position number etc just so they know they aren't being forgotten - cause many have replied they've been waiting for a month now and some say that there have been cases of support requests being lost. Linus even said (I think) that they had some issue with tickets going to junk/spam.

 

And above all else - LTT and Linus REPEATEDLY go for the "trust me, we got you" line about their support, users praise (with good reason) the quality of the support...

 

But a big aspect of support is response/turnaround time. And so it can't be a great support if it's so slow. So let's not call it great at the moment. It's mediocre.

[Arika]

55 minutes ago, Needfuldoer said:

I'm not sure if Reddit lets mods merge posts together,

not possible.

 

the only moderator actions on reddit are either locking threads or deleting them. I can see where the mods are coming from and have no issue with the action, but their wording isn't great.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, GameRetro said:

The point is people want to feel validated. They’ve been promised awesome support but they feel like they are being ignored. And that’s valid. 

So they want fake internet points?

Reddit is not LTT support, there's also no reason to complain about it on reddit, nothing they can do about it over there and as said at the top of the store page:

 

The forum mods were doing the same thing with posts here over the christmas break where it was a similar situation.

[GameRetro]

20 minutes ago, Arika S said:

 

So they want fake internet points?

 

 

What part of being validated correlates to "fake internet points"? Being validated is the same as being heard. We do it on the internet nowdays no? You're on a forum debating something that's of no direct consequence to your life - are you just here for fake internet points?

 

Social interaction has changed in shape and form but the underneath it's the same thing - we want to feel like we are not being excluded or alone in something - and we want to have the support and validation of our peers. Thus, someone posts on the internet when they feel like they are lost or confused or like they need further help or information. Can't believe I'm explaining all this. We are after all on the internet.

 

  

20 minutes ago, Arika S said:

 

Reddit is not LTT support, there's also no reason to complain about it on reddit, nothing they can do about it over there and as said at the top of the store page:

 

 

Who said it's trying to be or that users were trying to get support? They were trying to combine info with other people's experience mostly or have a discussion about it. Or even rant about it.

 

And did the mods here prevent people from talking about the customer service and delays in response too? If so I would fault that kind of behavior here too. It's just wrong.

[Chris Pratt]

The problem is people don't understand censorship. Stopping your ability to complain incessantly about something a company has already publicly acknowledged is not censorship. It's simply culling noise that adds no value to the platform or anyone using it, as they explained in the post.

[GameRetro]

5 minutes ago, Chris Pratt said:

The problem is people don't understand censorship. Stopping your ability to complain incessantly about something a company has already publicly acknowledged is not censorship. It's simply culling noise that adds no value to the platform or anyone using it, as they explained in the post.

It is by definition censorship. You're preventing public feedback.

 

Let's look at it like this:

 

If a company acknowledges that their support will be slow and they might not respond in a timely manner doesn't mean it's automatically okay. People might still want to express their displeasure and/or bring this fact about said support to a wider audience. The general impression about said support may change due to that though - it may become widely known as a non-responsive support - so it is censorship when you cut off the user feedback that MIGHT hurt the reputation of said support.

 

Stressing this - that it might not that it will. LTT time and time again have taken care of customers, and I doubt so little can hurt their reputation - but still it is not a good practice or good image to prevent valid user feedback - just because you as an admin doesn't like it or finds it annoying or excessive, and even if part or most of the community agrees because they are more lenient or just fanboys.

 

[Chris Pratt]

4 minutes ago, GameRetro said:

It is by definition censorship. You're preventing public feedback.

 

Let's look at it like this:

 

If a company acknowledges that their support will be slow and they might not respond in a timely manner doesn't mean it's automatically okay. People might still want to express their displeasure and/or bring this fact about said support to a wider audience. The general impression about said support may change due to that though - it may become widely known as a non-responsive support - so it is censorship when you cut off the user feedback that MIGHT hurt the reputation of said support.

 

Stressing this - that it might not that it will. LTT time and time again have taken care of customers, and I doubt so little can hurt their reputation - but still it is not a good practice or good image to prevent valid user feedback - just because you as an admin doesn't like it or finds it annoying or excessive, and even if part or most of the community agrees because they are more lenient or just fanboys.

 

Sorry, but you're wrong. Censorship is about preventing information from becoming public. The problem is that people have broadened it to apply to any sort of drivel one might want to excrete from the lower hole in their head. The whole point of moderation is to keep a platform useful for its users by culling unnecessary and/or useless content. Moderation is *not* censorship. There's a whole host of unquestionably valid reasons to remove/prevent content on platforms. As such, your real problem is not with censorship, but with the definition of unnecessary and useless. You can debate that, but calling it censorship is inflammatory and completely incorrect.

[Arika]

2 minutes ago, GameRetro said:

What part of being validated correlates to "fake internet points"?

Because it's reddit.what other validation are they seeking? it's clear there's a problem, it's been admitted to by the LTT store staff, at that point they are just screaming into the void hoping to get upvotes.

 

2 minutes ago, GameRetro said:

Social interaction has changed in shape and form but the underneath it's the same thing - we want to feel like we are not being excluded or alone in something - and we want to have the support and validation of our peers. Thus, someone posts on the internet when they feel like they are lost or confused or like they need further help or information. Can't believe I'm explaining all this. We are after all on the internet.

1 minute ago, GameRetro said:

If a company acknowledges that their support will be slow and they might not respond in a timely manner doesn't mean it's automatically okay. People might still want to express their displeasure and/or bring this fact about said support to a wider audience. The general impression about said support may change due to that though -

 

yes, but they also don't need 17 posts everyday about the same thing over and over.

 

Quote

it may become widely known as a non-responsive support - so it is censorship when you cut off the user feedback that MIGHT hurt the reputation of said support.

it is widely known, it's right on top of their website

 

If they were actually "censoring" then they would make sure to never admit there is a problem, nor would Nick Light post about it on his twitter and the reddit mods wouldn't have made a sticky'd post about it

 

You're also saying it's censorship, when it's an unrelated third party (the mods) removing things from an unofficial subreddit. Unless LMG specifically told the mod team to start removing these threads, then it's not actually censorship. You can't walk into a Walmart and start complaining about something you bought from bestbuy just because the Walmart also stocks the same product

[GameRetro]

I am saying the MOD is censoring the opinion of part of the community. Censorship does not inherently mean it's the actual support that's doing the censoring lol.

 

Also if there's 17 new posts every day it just means that there's a huge volume of feedback. It's not the same person every day lol. I mean come on!

 

3 minutes ago, Chris Pratt said:

Sorry, but you're wrong. Censorship is about preventing information from becoming public. The problem is that people have broadened it to apply to any sort of drivel one might want to excrete from the lower hole in their head. The whole point of moderation is to keep a platform useful for its users by culling unnecessary and/or useless content. Moderation is *not* censorship. There's a whole host of unquestionably valid reasons to remove/prevent content on platforms. As such, your real problem is not with censorship, but with the definition of unnecessary and useless. You can debate that, but calling it censorship is inflammatory and completely incorrect.

 

Information: people are vocal on reddit and not happy with XXXX

 

This information is what's being censored. Which by itself can escalate sometimes to even trending news. As things stand you could argue that "CW support acknowledging there's an issue with slow response to tickets is fine, and the whole community agrees since there aren't many if at all complaints about it on any social media platform".

 

I mean come on. I respect that you and @Arika S have a differing opinion on this, I strongly disagree with it though and would love it if we all agreed that we can at least see where each of us stands on this and not try to convince each-other since it seems we can't.

[Chris Pratt]

42 minutes ago, GameRetro said:

I am saying the MOD is censoring the opinion of part of the community. Censorship does not inherently mean it's the actual support that's doing the censoring lol.

 

Also if there's 17 new posts every day it just means that there's a huge volume of feedback. It's not the same person every day lol. I mean come on!

 

 

Information: people are vocal on reddit and not happy with XXXX

 

This information is what's being censored. Which by itself can escalate sometimes to even trending news. As things stand you could argue that "CW support acknowledging there's an issue with slow response to tickets is fine, and the whole community agrees since there aren't many if at all complaints about it on any social media platform".

 

I mean come on. I respect that you and @Arika S have a differing opinion on this, I strongly disagree with it though and would love it if we all agreed that we can at least see where each of us stands on this and not try to convince each-other since it seems we can't.

My only problem is with the use of censorship. It's simply not censorship, in any form or fashion. It's a moderation choice. You can disagree with that choice. That's fine. You can argue that these types of posts should not be moderated. Fine. I disagree even there, but you're entitled to your opinion. However, calling it censorship is factually wrong, and it dilutes the gravity of actual censorship, which is real, and already far more diluted than it should be.

[Yoinkerman]

Don't use reddit my dude it's complete trash

[starsmine]

Sure its de facto censorship... but its also highly disingenuous to use that word because of what it implies. All it is, is noise. Noise does not do much positive for a community. Taking out noise matches a specific definition, but not what people mean when that word is invoked.

Dont get mad about there being less noise

Its not like complaining on reddit will make them hire customer service workers any faster.

[GameRetro]

1 hour ago, Caroline said:

This.

 

You gotta leave that cesspool OP, you can discuss LMG here and nobody will censor you.

 

It was somewhat good until the admins decided to become full-time clowns, deleted all of the interesting subs and redesigned the site to look "modern" in order to attract hordes of normies that ended up in clown subs like r/techsupport or r/buildapc amongst other "big" ones. Male karens started complaining about toomuh harassment and mods started deleting posts in order to prevent the sub from being deleted by admins, it's basically a snowball situation but made out of fecal matter and that has destroyed the whole site.

 

<s>

Oh it's also bad for your health, related gifs: 

  Reveal hidden contents

</s>

 

I guess I'm just learning of subs with bad mods tbh. I mostly use r/fantasypl and other subs for various specific purposes that are honestly wonderful. I guess we could look at each reddit sub as it's own forum then... But yeah also not native English and the verb "censoring" is commonly used for "blocking topics or shushing a group or similar" in my country. Keep in mind that when translating things in English most foreign speakers use words and idioms they use in their language but translated verbatum to English. Now, my English might be good but the way I see and perceive some words is cultural and embedded in me. I literally do not know another single word in English that means "blocking a topic" for use on the internet.

 

And not to forget - thanks everyone for the comments and discussion.

 

The purpose of the post here is to bring light to a bad practice in a "sister" community to this one, and how a single mod is responsible for it. That was all.

[Middcore]

Nothing can be accomplished by people bitching about LTT support on reddit, and letting people bitch will only start arguments and clog up the board for people trying to discuss other things. The reddit mod or mods' decision is 100% understandable and justifiable. 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

16 hours ago, TetraSky said:

The problem with reddit, people don't bother looking up if an existing thread exist, so they make a new one. This results in hundreds of threads asking and complaining about the same thing, cluttering up the subreddit

To be fair... the same issue happens on the forum to some degree. It's just that the mods here are more proactive with merging topics like that.