Why do LMG channels no longer disclose "sponsored" or "showcase" in the title?

[tkitch]

43 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

LMG in general is not very transparent, what videos were sponsored, and I generally assume unless they explicitly state "XXX did not sponsor this video" that LMG received some form of compensation, monetary or free review samples or whatever. For example the recent video "why is everyone buying this case?" seemed like a big Corsair shill to me, they very obviously ignored downsides to the case.

 

I don't know what the legal situation is like in Canada/north america, but in Europe LMG would be in a lot of trouble for what they're doing, it needs to be obvious to the viewer if the video is part of some business relationship between the channel and the manufacturer or just someone who bought the product with their own money and making a video about it.

Care to elaborate on how LTT isn't transparent?  How would they be in trouble in Europe?

 

In any sponsored video it's displayed on the video, in text, or mentioned by the host no fewer than 5 times that it's a sponsored video.  What do you want them to do?

 

Also?  Linus has done sponsored videos and his overall verdict was "I really don't get what this product is for."  Which in my world is NOT a ringing endorsement to buy something.

[Alvin853]

27 minutes ago, saint_louis_bagels said:

Seriously, it just sounds like @Alvin853 has trust issues against any video that doesn't poo on a product.

I have trust issues against LMG ever since Linus did that NiceHash showcase video. Yes it was properly labeled as "showcase" and "sponsored", but if LMG cared about their viewers at all they should not have taken that sponsorship, how were they thinking selling out like that could possibly be a good idea. Other tech channels like GN or HUB have clearly shown that they are not afraid to fight (or preferably work with) a company if the demands are against their own beliefs. 

And for the europeans, der8auer is extremely transparent about his business relations and when he's talking from the standpoint of the manufacturer and not his own personal opinion.

 

I understand LMG is a much bigger operation than those other channels I mentioned, but I generally watch LMG videos only for entertainment purposes and not for any help making a decision on a future purchase. If that's what their advertising partners are expecting and the ads pay well enough, then everybody can live a happy life.

[Middcore]

Just now, Alvin853 said:

I have trust issues against LMG ever since Linus did that NiceHash showcase video. Yes it was properly labeled as "showcase" and "sponsored", but if LMG cared about their viewers at all they should not have taken that sponsorship, how were they thinking selling out like that could possibly be a good idea.

 

So is your issue with them doing a sponsorship for a crypto-related company in general, or with NiceHash in particular?

 

Because a large segment of LTT's viewership are crypto-miners. 

[Alvin853]

Just now, Middcore said:

 

So is your issue with them doing a sponsorship for a crypto-related company in general, or with NiceHash in particular?

 

Because a large segment of LTT's viewership are crypto-miners. 

My issue is Linus criticizing crypto miners at every possible occasion, and then doing a video like that. If he continuosly endorsed crypto mining, that video would have been fine, I'm not against crypto-mining. That just screams "give me enough money and I'll say whatever you want"

[tkitch]

11 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

but if LMG cared about their viewers at all they should not have taken that sponsorship

 

And because of (I forget if it was that incident, or a different one) there is now a sub forum dedicated to potential sponsors, where we can provide feedback to LTT Staff directly.

 

So, what's your beef again?  

 

Also linus addressed it directly:

 

[Middcore]

6 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

My issue is Linus criticizing crypto miners at every possible occasion

 

He doesn't, though? Complaining that gamers can't get GPU's because of mining isn't really criticizing them. I don't recall Linus really taking on any of the environmental and ethical issues surrounding crypto, which are far more important, although I could be wrong. 

 

Edit: Linus in the video linked above: "I believe in cryptocurrency, for realsies."

[Ashleyyyy]

@tkitchis LMG paying you to defend them or something? Jezus Christ…

[tkitch]

1 minute ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

@tkitchis LMG paying you to defend them or something? Jezus Christ…

Strawman / Ad hominem response.  

Got any response to the topic at hand?  

[Middcore]

2 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

@tkitchis LMG paying you to defend them or something? Jezus Christ…

Not going to rebut any of the points made then?  

[lewdicrous]

Reminders:

You can defend what's right/correct without being a shill.

You can criticise what's wrong/incorrect without being a hater.

[Alvin853]

12 minutes ago, Middcore said:

 

He doesn't, though? Complaining that gamers can't get GPU's because of mining isn't really criticizing them. I don't recall Linus really taking on any of the environmental and ethical issues surrounding crypto, which are far more important, although I could be wrong. 

Okay fair point, Linus (or anyone at LMG) never publically stated they were against mining, but there was a very big "blame miners" vibe in most videos around that time, and with the whole "Verfied Actual Gamer" program LMG was taking a very public shot at miners. 

 

38 minutes ago, tkitch said:

Care to elaborate on how LTT isn't transparent?  How would they be in trouble in Europe?

 

In any sponsored video it's displayed on the video, in text, or mentioned by the host no fewer than 5 times that it's a sponsored video.  What do you want them to do?

 

Also?  Linus has done sponsored videos and his overall verdict was "I really don't get what this product is for."  Which in my world is NOT a ringing endorsement to buy something.

For example on the "not sponsored" update on the QD-OLED, was Linus still using the free review sample they got or did they go out and buy their own retail monitor? If this was still the free sample they received, IMO that needs to be mentioned in the video, even if the video itself isn't sponsored. We don't know if the manufacturer sent them a hand-picked review unit.

And he didn't talk about any of the negatives, that almost every other neutral reviewer pointed out immediately, so the possible conclusions are: Linus is bad at reviewing monitors, or Linus didn't want to piss of the manufacturer because LMG likes receiving free stuff for their videos.

Same thing with the Corsair case video I already mentioned, at no point was stated the video is sponsored, so it shouldn't be sponsored if everything is correct. Did they go out and buy a case for the video, or are they using one they got for free from Corsair? And why is Linus not mentioning the obvious downsides of the case?

[Neroon]

1 hour ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

i doubt that, it's probably gonna get less views because not many people want to watch a 6 minute ad in their free time. hence why they should label it instead of baiting YT views and ad revenue. 

You realize that LMG is a company right? They need to make money. The past months they've even been trying to dump inventory for lttstore to get money in, for things such as the lab and new lttstore products.

 

Now you may absolutely disagree with their choices, this is fine, but in the end, they don't need to do what you want.

 

I agree that I would prefer the message upfront, this would definitely impact whether I would click a video or not, that's not to say I would skip them all, because I definitely wouldn't, but yeah if it's a product I'm already borderline interested in knowing more about it, seeing it being sponsored would push me over to skip it.

 

That said, I also think it's important to recognize how they go about these videos. They have said again and again that they will not do sponsored videos of products that they either don't believe in, or simply would not be positive in general.

From what I can tell is that they generally show or mention things they don't like, but they don't double down on telling you why you probably shouldn't buy it. So if a laptop is expensive, they will be like "This definitely isn't the cheapest laptop, coming in at x amount, but the quality of the product has been great".

I'm sure that can be too subtle for some people, but generally you still get solid info from those videos.

 

But yeah I agree that I would like to see it in the title, but I don't think they are misleading people, their videos aren't: "you pay us, we will kiss your ass", and are still solid if that product is something you are interested in.

 

Oh and I generally just watch the videos that I want to see, so if I don't care about the subject, I just don't watch. My laptop is not even a year old, so I generally don't watch laptop videos unless it's something really special.

[Neroon]

31 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

@tkitchis LMG paying you to defend them or something? Jezus Christ…

People take time to respond to your comments/questions. No need to be rude about it.

[Ashleyyyy]

26 minutes ago, tkitch said:

Strawman / Ad hominem response.  

Got any response to the topic at hand?  

25 minutes ago, Middcore said:

Not going to rebut any of the points made then?  

i do, but i was on my phone and i didn't want to type out a full response. 

 

my problem is that before, this kind of stuff was clearly in the title. i don't care how many times it says it's sponsored in the video itself. by the time i get to that, they already got a view and an ad roll from me. prior to this change, people who didn't fancy watching a 5 to 10 minute ad could just not click. now, it's a gamble. and i have a problem with that. 

 

couple that with dislike count removal and i can't judge from that if it's a pointless showcase either. i want to be fair to them, i disable adblock on youtube, i watch most video's even if i don't know if i'm gonna like it (due to the stupid clickbait titles), i'm a loyal viewer in those ways. i've been watching them for years and years, since like 2013. 

1 minute ago, Neroon said:

You realize that LMG is a company right? 

i don't care. first and foremost, they are a media outlet. one that i'm trusting to make fair content. if it's sponsored, that goes out the window. i don't have a problem with it if it's clearly labeled as i can just not click on it. that's why i'm complaining. 

 

3 minutes ago, Neroon said:

Now you may absolutely disagree with their choices, this is fine, but in the end, they don't need to do what you want.

i've been a viewer for close to 10 years. not saying i'm important, but what it comes down to is that first and foremost, LMG needs to listen to their audience. we are what makes them money. 

 

4 minutes ago, Neroon said:

That said, I also think it's important to recognize how they go about these videos. They have said again and again that they will not do sponsored videos of products that they either don't believe in, or simply would not be positive in general.

i believe that was referring to the unrelated sponsors. a video being sponsored by the maker of the video topic is very different. 

 

5 minutes ago, Neroon said:

So if a laptop

is expensive, they will be like "This definitely isn't the cheapest laptop, coming in at x amount, but the quality of the product has been great".

that's in reviews. sponsored showcases are not reviews. if a video is sponsored by the maker of the product they get to say what's in the video. if they don't like a criticism like that, it won't be in it. that's how it works. 

 

5 minutes ago, Neroon said:

People take time to respond to your comments/questions. No need to be rude about it.

lol

[saintlouisbagels]

3 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

Okay fair point, Linus (or anyone at LMG) never publically stated they were against mining, but there was a very big "blame miners" vibe in most videos around that time, and with the whole "Verfied Actual Gamer" program LMG was taking a very public shot at miners.

Linus also tends to separate his feelings with what’s best for LMG. He’s mentioned that a couple of times on WAN. If the NiceHash was a profitable while not completely undermining their company ethics, then it did its job. He said similar misgivings about the PiHole video.

 

6 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

For example on the "not sponsored" update on the QD-OLED, was Linus still using the free review sample they got or did they go out and buy their own retail monitor? If this was still the free sample they received, IMO that needs to be mentioned in the video, even if the video itself isn't sponsored. We don't know if the manufacturer sent them a hand-picked review unit.

And he didn't talk about any of the negatives, that almost every other neutral reviewer pointed out immediately, so the possible conclusions are: Linus is bad at reviewing monitors, or Linus didn't want to piss of the manufacturer because LMG likes receiving free stuff for their videos.

Same thing with the Corsair case video I already mentioned, at no point was stated the video is sponsored, so it shouldn't be sponsored if everything is correct. Did they go out and buy a case for the video, or are they using one they got for free from Corsair? And why is Linus not mentioning the obvious downsides of the case?

I genuinely think the team is bad at reviewing monitors and they don’t have enough hands on time to figure out all of the flaws.

 

This is your second time mentioning that Corsair video, but they literally have a chapter section about the downsides of the case. Again, they might’ve have just done an incredibly poor job of reviewing the case - LTT’s reviews are not great in general. But for some reason you’re so tinfoil hat about sponsorships you somehow correlate bad reviewing with taking money under the table..

[tkitch]

4 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

Okay fair point, Linus (or anyone at LMG) never publically stated they were against mining, but there was a very big "blame miners" vibe in most videos around that time, and with the whole "Verfied Actual Gamer" program LMG was taking a very public shot at miners. 

 

For example on the "not sponsored" update on the QD-OLED, was Linus still using the free review sample they got or did they go out and buy their own retail monitor? If this was still the free sample they received, IMO that needs to be mentioned in the video, even if the video itself isn't sponsored. We don't know if the manufacturer sent them a hand-picked review unit.

And he didn't talk about any of the negatives, that almost every other neutral reviewer pointed out immediately, so the possible conclusions are: Linus is bad at reviewing monitors, or Linus didn't want to piss of the manufacturer because LMG likes receiving free stuff for their videos.

Same thing with the Corsair case video I already mentioned, at no point was stated the video is sponsored, so it shouldn't be sponsored if everything is correct. Did they go out and buy a case for the video, or are they using one they got for free from Corsair? And why is Linus not mentioning the obvious downsides of the case?

Linus and others on staff have been hella against miners scooping up /all/ the available GPUs, resulting in the scalping and general non-availability of GPUs for gamers.  Which, seems to have held out, because in the last 6 months as Bitcoin / other Crypto prices have tanked (Market's down to 1/3 or less of the high's ~8 months ago) both availability has skyrocketed, and pricing has tanked to nearly MSRP.  

 

Causing a 300$ GPU to be sold for 600$+ (If you can even find one in the first place) is a pretty fuckin' shitty situation to have.

 

Which QD-OLED Update?  He's covered multiple QD-OLED products, so I'm not sure which video you're addressing.

 

As for the 4000D Airflow video?  I mean, it's a 100$ (or less) computer case that's easy to get.  It's not a hot commodity on the market, so I'm less concerned with where they got it.  It's also an absurdly popular case that is a very common reccommendation on both the forum here, as well as the discord.  No case is perfect, but it's a solid choice for most situations.  

 

 

[Middcore]

3 minutes ago, saint_louis_bagels said:

I genuinely think the team is bad at reviewing monitors and they don’t have enough hands on time to figure out all of the flaws.

 

This is your second time mentioning that Corsair video, but they literally have a chapter section about the downsides of the case. Again, they might’ve have just done an incredibly poor job of reviewing the case - LTT’s reviews are not great in general. But for some reason you’re so tinfoil hat about sponsorships you somehow correlate bad reviewing with taking money under the table..

 

In general LMG channels are the wrong place to look for serious reviews of any product. 

[Alvin853]

3 minutes ago, saint_louis_bagels said:

I genuinely think the team is bad at reviewing monitors and they don’t have enough hands on time to figure out all of the flaws.

Okay then maybe there is hope for the future when LMG has the lab(s) set up and has people doing reviews that actually know their stuff.

 

4 minutes ago, saint_louis_bagels said:

This is your second time mentioning that Corsair video, but they literally have a chapter section about the downsides of the case. Again, they might’ve have just done an incredibly poor job of reviewing the case - LTT’s reviews are not great in general. But for some reason you’re so tinfoil hat about sponsorships you somehow correlate bad reviewing with taking money under the table..

The obvious flaw that pretty much every review of the case and several comments on amazon mention, is that it only has a single USB-A front panel connector. They show a picture for a very short time in the "More things that are great!" section of the video and Linus literally says "well rounded front I/O", did he even look at the front I/O? Maybe I shouldn't be assuming malice if incompetency is also a reasonable explanation, I was just expecting LMG to not be incompetent.

[saintlouisbagels]

5 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

The obvious flaw that pretty much every review of the case and several comments on amazon mention, is that it only has a single USB-A front panel connector. They show a picture for a very short time in the "More things that are great!" section of the video and Linus literally says "well rounded front I/O", did he even look at the front I/O? Maybe I shouldn't be assuming malice if incompetency is also a reasonable explanation, I was just expecting LMG to not be incompetent.

Yeah that sounds like incompetence lol. Considering that their bread and butter is janky home projects and Linus dropping things, I assume most of LMG’s mistakes are just incompetence. Especially since they can’t even do decent due diligence before collaborating with people (Dream build).

[Isuck Assimov]

A good reaction to practices like these is to avoid supporting the channel to the best of ones abilities.

Get Adblock and dont buy their stuff

[Middcore]

7 minutes ago, Alvin853 said:

The obvious flaw that pretty much every review of the case and several comments on amazon mention, is that it only has a single USB-A front panel connector. They show a picture for a very short time in the "More things that are great!" section of the video and Linus literally says "well rounded front I/O", did he even look at the front I/O? Maybe I shouldn't be assuming malice if incompetency is also a reasonable explanation, I was just expecting LMG to not be incompetent.

 

I mean, I get tired of seeing the 4000D in build videos and in recommendations on this forum myself, but... it does continue to get recommended. It's been used in... feels like over half of the Intel Extreme Tech Upgrade videos and Corsair isn't sponsoring those so I'm assuming the employees could pick the case they want and the 4000D is what they picked. I'm forced to conclude only having one USB-A port isn't seen as a serious drawback by most people. If we're being honest, my case has two but I very rarely use them both at once. My previous case had three and I literally don't think I ever used all three. The 4000D also has a USB-C port which I think is becoming more and more essential so it has that going for it. 

[tkitch]

17 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

i do, but i was on my phone and i didn't want to type out a full response. 

 

my problem is that before, this kind of stuff was clearly in the title. i don't care how many times it says it's sponsored in the video itself. by the time i get to that, they already got a view and an ad roll from me. prior to this change, people who didn't fancy watching a 5 to 10 minute ad could just not click. now, it's a gamble. and i have a problem with that. 

 

Firstly, being lazy isn't an excuse for being shitty in a thread like that.  And that's exactly what that was.

 

LTT and Linus has been clear about what determines video titles.  Clickthrough.  IDK How many times he's gone over it, but he's done it more than a few times.

 

If the clickthrough on videos is crap?  The video doesn't make money.  If the clickthrough is good?  It makes good money.

 

They've adjusted the video subjects based on trends they find in the patterns they watch in metrics.  Can't blame them for using science and math to follow the money.

 

Quote

couple that with dislike count removal and i can't judge from that if it's a pointless showcase either.

So, Trying to make LTT Look bad because YT made a change is disingenuous at best, so....

 

Quote

i want to be fair to them, i disable adblock on youtube, i watch most video's even if i don't know if i'm gonna like it (due to the stupid clickbait titles), i'm a loyal viewer in those ways. i've been watching them for years and years, since like 2013. i don't care. first and foremost, they are a media outlet. one that i'm trusting to make fair content. if it's sponsored, that goes out the window. i don't have a problem with it if it's clearly labeled as i can just not click on it. that's why i'm complaining. 

Good on you for not adblocking YT.  

 

I think that overall LTT makes very fair content, and is very clear when a video is sponsored.  (Even if I'm not a fan of the sponsor.  Looking at you, Corsair RAM.)

 

Linus / LTT Staff will say they don't like a product, even in sponsored content.  

 

That being said, I don't look to LTT for hard reviews on products, that's not the LTT goal.  (Labs looks like that's going to change things, but that's not here quite yet, so we'll see.)  I follow LTT because it's entertaining, and gives reasonable feedback on products they look at.  

 

Quote

that's in reviews. sponsored showcases are not reviews. if a video is sponsored by the maker of the product they get to say what's in the video. if they don't like a criticism like that, it won't be in it. that's how it works. 

This is factually untrue.  100%.

 

@LinusTechhas addressed this before.  I believe it was something to the effect of "They give us talking points, but we go hands on with the product directly and say what we think."  A Sponsored video or showcase is absolutely NOT written by the product manuf.  ( @CPotteror @JonoTcould probably address this as well.)  

 

[Middcore]

Just now, tkitch said:

So, Trying to make LTT Look bad because YT made a change is disingenuous at best, so....

 

Especially when it was a change LTT vociferously campaigned against. 

[Neroon]

8 minutes ago, Ashley MLP Fangirl said:

i don't care. first and foremost, they are a media outlet. one that i'm trusting to make fair content. if it's sponsored, that goes out the window. i don't have a problem with it if it's clearly labeled as i can just not click on it. that's why i'm complaining. 

 

i've been a viewer for close to 10 years. not saying i'm important, but what it comes down to is that first and foremost, LMG needs to listen to their audience. we are what makes them money. 

 

i believe that was referring to the unrelated sponsors. a video being sponsored by the maker of the video topic is very different. 

 

that's in reviews. sponsored showcases are not reviews. if a video is sponsored by the maker of the product they get to say what's in the video. if they don't like a criticism like that, it won't be in it. that's how it works. 

 

lol

I guess you are sticking with being rude.

 

Well guess what, this is always an issue UNLESS they actually buy ALL the products. Because simply put, if say LTT is always negative about a product, they will stop sending products. I've actually recently responded to a video about the new Mercedes EV, I felt like Alex ripped them a new one, and it wasn't just Mercedes, he been ripping most brands on their shitty decisions, and rightfully so, but this is absolutely at the risk of them not letting LMG test these vehicles again, unless they want to pay for it, and I don't think LMG wants to pay those cars out of pocket to test them.

So they always need to be aware of how far they can go, how negative they can go. How negative can the be with Intel, before Intel is just gonna be like "fuck you guys, we don't work with you guys anymore, no tours, no sponsored videos etc"

 

Whether you think they are fair or not, is about you having to pick up on whether you think they are. Are they generally honest, are they negative about brands that sponsor them, are they (sometimes) negative about the sponsored product? What requirements do they have for doing such a video? And if you feel that they cannot be trusted, then click away, and maybe click away from all of LMG.

 

LMG absolutely needs to listen to their audience, and I do believe they are, but that's not the same as doing what they audience wants, because if they audience gets to decide, they don't make jack shit.. They would be like: "Linus can just use Yvonne's paycheck again to pay everyone". Or at the very least, they wouldn't have been able to grow like they did.

And you can absolutely argue that this kind of growth is not something that everyone wants, but at the same time what other option is there? The second you stop growing, you become irrelevant and you are done for. The Lab is their choice to stay relevant, and not by doing gimmicky shit, but by improving. But hey that needs money.

 

No that absolutely applies to all sponsors. A while ago Linus spoke about that in a video (not sure if it was Wan or not), but he said that a company reached out to review a laptop, where the the company claimed amazing results, but their testing showed otherwise, and thus they told them no because they were not gonna spin to make it look good.

 

Sponsored showcases still talk about the product. Yes they are mostly first impressions, but that don't make them irrelevant. Like screen quality, keyboard feel, flex etc

[Ashleyyyy]

4 minutes ago, tkitch said:

Linus / LTT Staff will say they don't like a product, even in sponsored content.  

 

false. 

 

4 minutes ago, tkitch said:

This is factually untrue.  100%.

prove it. look at the wan show i linked in the OP. Linus explained it very clearly.