Theoratically, do you think QD-OLED can even burn-in? (Discussion)

[e22big]

Just curious, burn-in on WRGB OLED typically occur while blue pixel diode burn out before the rest due to heavy usage. Since QD-OLED don't even use colour diode, would they ever burn-in? Let's even if the UV diode had completely burnt out, you shoud end up with a dead pixel not a burn-in image no?

[Stahlmann]

Yes, they will. The real question is "when". In the end it's also organic material that degrades. How fast it happens and how resistant it is compared to LG's OLED panels is something we'll find out in the next years.

 

And if it happens, burn-in could potentially be more noticeable on QD-OLED. On WBGR panels from LG the 4 subpixels degrade individually, meaning the burn-in effect might only be visible in a specific color or shade. But with QD-OLED there is one light emitter that is responsible for all 3 subpixels, meaning the burn-in should be visible in all colors once it is there. The Quantum Dots don't degrade afaik, only the blue organic light emitter underneath.

 

Only time will tell. The only thing we can do now is hope/speculate. Just because Dell has the confidence to back their monitor up with a 3 year warranty covering burn-in doesn't automatically mean it's more resistant. There have been brands in the past that offered burn-in warranty on their TV's using LG OLED panels.

 

There will always be extreme usecases where burn-in happens sooner and there will always be cases where it doesn't occur, even after 5+ years of useage. And that's why you should think about your specific usecase and if it even makes sense FOR YOU. OLED doesn't make sense for everybody. And it doesn't have to. That's why there are other options like MiniLED. But if it does, then it's amazing.

[Senzelian]

32 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

But with QD-OLED there is one light emitter that is responsible for all 3 subpixels, meaning the burn-in should be visible in all colors once it is there.

Are you sure that one light emitter is responsible for all three QDs?
I would think that each QD gets its own OLED light emitter to be able to dimm each subpixel individually and create the necessary amount of colors that we are used to. Unless of course QDs can do that by themselves and are able to obstruct light. Tbh, I haven't looked into it much myself.

[e22big]

28 minutes ago, Stahlmann said:

Yes, they will. The real question is "when". In the end it's also organic material that degrades. How fast it happens and how resistant it is compared to LG's OLED panels is something we'll find out in the next years.

 

And if it happens, burn-in could potentially be more noticeable on QD-OLED. On WBGR panels from LG the 4 subpixels degrade individually, meaning the burn-in effect might only be visible in a specific color or shade. But with QD-OLED there is one light emitter that is responsible for all 3 subpixels, meaning the burn-in should be visible in all colors once it is there. The Quantum Dots don't degrade afaik, only the blue organic light emitter underneath.

 

Only time will tell. The only thing we can do now is hope/speculate. Just because Dell has the confidence to back their monitor up with a 3 year warranty covering burn-in doesn't automatically mean it's more resistant. There have been brands in the past that offered burn-in warranty on their TV's using LG OLED panels.

 

There will always be extreme usecases where burn-in happens sooner and there will always be cases where it doesn't occur, even after 5+ years of useage. And that's why you should think about your specific usecase and if it even makes sense FOR YOU. OLED doesn't make sense for everybody. And it doesn't have to. That's why there are other options like MiniLED. But if it does, then it's amazing.

I guess you're right I am more interested in the 'how' rather than the 'if' honestly. But honestly, your answer kinda answer me that. I forgot that burn-in didn't just occur when the blue diode died out, any colour that dim out would have resulted in a burn-in image regardless, in that regard the QD-OLED will probably be just as vulnerable as any others. 

 

Come to think of it, I wonder if it would have been possible to "disable local dimming" on QD-OLED, it works pretty much like an LCD with QD film repalcing the liquid crystal substrate anyway. If you fixed all pixels at a certain brightness level and only use QD to produce various tones and colours, it could have elimiate burn-in issue completely (at the cost of the panel getting dimmer over time instead)

[tikker]

10 minutes ago, e22big said:

guess you're right I am more interested in the 'how' rather than the 'if' honestly. But honestly, your answer kinda answer me that. I forgot that burn-in didn't just occur when the blue diode died out, any colour that dim out would have resulted in a burn-in image regardless, in that regard the QD-OLED will probably be just as vulnerable as any others. 

To my knowledge just as vulnerable, as it's again OLED technology, but in practise less so to an extent as you don't have to filter out unwanted colours for each sub pixel, losing a bunch of light. For the same perceived output brightness you should be able to run a QD-OLED closer to that level as you don't lose any or as much light to filtering.

12 minutes ago, e22big said:

Come to think of it, I wonder if it would have been possible to "disable local dimming" on QD-OLED, it works pretty much like an LCD with QD film repalcing the liquid crystal substrate anyway. If you fixed all pixels at a certain brightness level and only use QD to produce various tones and colours, it could have elimiate burn-in issue completely (at the cost of the panel getting dimmer over time instead)

If you disable local dimming on an OLED you'd take away its main selling point: perfect local dimming and blacks. If you take that away you may as well go with the existing alternative QD+LED tech I think.

[Stahlmann]

28 minutes ago, Senzelian said:

Are you sure that one light emitter is responsible for all three QDs?
I would think that each QD gets its own OLED light emitter to be able to dimm each subpixel individually and create the necessary amount of colors that we are used to. Unless of course QDs can do that by themselves and are able to obstruct light. Tbh, I haven't looked into it much myself.

Tbh i'm not 100% sure. Most marketing material is cryptic. At least for WBGR OLED we know from years of experience that they can burn-in individually. Could also be the case with QD-OLED, but most marketing pictures i saw make it seem like there is 1 "LED" for each pixel.

 

26 minutes ago, e22big said:

Come to think of it, I wonder if it would have been possible to "disable local dimming" on QD-OLED, it works pretty much like an LCD with QD film repalcing the liquid crystal substrate anyway. If you fixed all pixels at a certain brightness level and only use QD to produce various tones and colours, it could have elimiate burn-in issue completely (at the cost of the panel getting dimmer over time instead)

Yeah, OLED loses all of it's appeal when you have always-on pixels. Not to mention it will lead to a shorter life span before burn-in occurs. Remember, burn-in is not something that happens over night when you forget to turn the TV off. It cumulates over thousands of hours of useage, no matter how light the load is. There is no reason to keep OLED pixels on and disable "local dimming".

[e22big]

1 hour ago, Stahlmann said:

Tbh i'm not 100% sure. Most marketing material is cryptic. At least for WBGR OLED we know from years of experience that they can burn-in individually. Could also be the case with QD-OLED, but most marketing pictures i saw make it seem like there is 1 "LED" for each pixel.

 

Yeah, OLED loses all of it's appeal when you have always-on pixels. Not to mention it will lead to a shorter life span before burn-in occurs. Remember, burn-in is not something that happens over night when you forget to turn the TV off. It cumulates over thousands of hours of useage, no matter how light the load is. There is no reason to keep OLED pixels on and disable "local dimming".

Well, not everything need to be HDR, in normal desktop use SDR, having fixed lighting is actually better as it produces more consistent image quality. 

 

But I guess the ultimate effect would be the same as burning all the pixels to make then equally dimmed again I guess

[Stahlmann]

10 minutes ago, e22big said:

Well, not everything need to be HDR, in normal desktop use SDR, having fixed lighting is actually better as it produces more consistent image quality. 

With OLED there is no blooming, so you won't have any problems with black pixels even in SDR. I don't really get how always-on pixels would benefit you in any way.

[e22big]

1 hour ago, Stahlmann said:

With OLED there is no blooming, so you won't have any problems with black pixels even in SDR. I don't really get how always-on pixels would benefit you in any way.

Burn-in happened when the individual pixels degraded faster than the other isn't it? if all the pixels were always on and at the same level they would all degrade at the same task which eliminated the burn-in issue entirely, at least whie you use it outside of HDR.

[Stahlmann]

35 minutes ago, e22big said:

Burn-in happened when the individual pixels degraded faster than the other isn't it? if all the pixels were always on and at the same level they would all degrade at the same task which eliminated the burn-in issue entirely, at least whie you use it outside of HDR.

Burn in doesn't just accumulate the same on all pixels because they're all on. It also depends on the brightness, so when displaying white text on a gray background the white parts of the screen will accumulate more "wear". Plus, they cannot switch off, which means they will also accumulate wear when they don't need to do something. A black OLED pixel (off) doesn't accumulate wear.

 

If anything this method would actually make burn-in more of a problem.

[Doobeedoo]

It's still OLED tech so organic part so yes it will. Early tech so test of time is where it's at for now. But yeah a well premium monitor I'd want it to last a well number of years.