How do you feel about the Android phone update system?

[Kazooduck]

How do you feel about the American(android) update rollout system, where first aosp(android open-source project) gets an update, then smartphone manufacturers get to skin it, then they release it to the carriers and unlocked versions, then carriers get to choose when the final distribution is, and add their own unnecessary patch notes.

[Yebi]

I cannot for the life of me understand why USA carriers have any role to play whatsoever. I've never seen one do anything anything to my phone other than provide the connection. It's like having your ISP reskin your Windows updates

[Levent]

Quote

American phone update system?

This has nothing to do with "America". AOSP is a project led by Google to develop and maintains Android. Literally anyone can fork it and build it for their own device and sell the device as android. Your question makes absolutely no sense which ever way you phrase it.

[Kazooduck]

Just now, Levent said:

This has nothing to do with "America". AOSP is a project led by Google to develop and maintains Android. Literally anyone can fork it and build it for their own device and sell the device as android. Your question makes absolutely no sense however you put it.

In America, carriers manage the update system after the manufacturers give their skin, I’m not sure about other parts of the world so i put American, the point of putting something in the internet is to get feedback, so let me know what happens around the world!

[BiotechBen]

I'm rocking a Moto G100 on T-Mobile, Motorola is not the best at getting updates out for new Android versions, especially with how stock android the experience is. Still rocking android 11, I personally like it. It is on the list from Motorola for updates to android 12, when it comes it comes, and I'm cool with being a little behind the curve if it means I'm not part of an unofficial beta test basically.

 

[TheNuzziNuzz]

I think there are two major values in carrier customization.

 

1. Competitive, desirable features that don't create new problems for the user

2. Hardware specific optimizations such as support for specific cell-tower frequencies.

 

I think is one huge, easily fixable downfall that Google has been working on:

 

1. Extremely slow security updates. These security updates should be decoupled from the OS as best as possible. Although this can be difficult to implement. We know carriers cannot be relied on for pushing these updates

 

The biggest problem with carrier customization, including google's pixel:

 

1. Lack of customization for the users specific desires. This isn't event across different carriers. For example, recently my Oneplus 9 updated to Android 12. The update has absoloutely harmed my android experience significantly. Many features have been removed....many of which are changes to the base AOSP. 

 

I personally believe that the UI, the base OS, and the phone-sms subsystem should all be completely isolated componets. And a feature once implemented, should never ever be removed. And the user should be given the choice to choose their phones function and appearence.

For example: Why do I have to own a pixel to use Google Camera when it works perfectly fine on any other device? Why do I have to buy a OnePlus phone to take advantage of their software specific touch gestures and always on display? 

[Levent]

3 minutes ago, kamonanban said:

In America, carriers manage the update system after the manufacturers give their skin, I’m not sure about other parts of the world so i put American, the point of putting something in the internet is to get feedback, so let me know what happens around the world!

It is because carriers used to love SIM locking devices and back in the day this would mean either using a different SoC or different modem for the phone. Those would result in device having a different model number and being incompatible with a device that was not carrier locked or was bought in other parts of the world, hence why they have to build their own rom for their own device.

[Kazooduck]

Just now, Levent said:

It is because carriers used to love SIM locking devices and back in the day this would mean either using a different SoC or different modem for the phone. Those would result in device having a different model number and incompatible with a device that was not carrier locked, hence why they have to build their own rom for their own device.

Yes but does that happen around the world? I’m curious

[Levent]

5 minutes ago, kamonanban said:

Yes but does that happen around the world? I’m curious

Yes, this also was a common thing back in late 2000s in Europe but nowadays it is not , still this is not just an "america" thing.

[Kazooduck]

2 minutes ago, TheNuzziNuzz said:

I personally believe that the UI, the base OS, and the phone-sms subsystem should all be completely isolated [components].

Sadly it seems google wants to leave that as much as possible, now launchers need root for gestures to work properly?? Its going to be hard to implement a ui customizable more than one ui+good lock + nova/lawnchair/Niagara without rooting, and that’s a sad reality

[Kazooduck]

Just now, Levent said:

Yes, this also was a common thing back in late 2000s in Europe but nowadays it is not , still this is not just an "america" thing.

Thanks for letting me know! It also seems like for unlocked models its different too, there was a month in release time difference for my phone in Switzerland, to US unlocked, and i still dont have that update on verizon. Its a big mess, and it sucks because the update is there.

Speaking of Verizon, it is near impossible to troubleshoot a Verizon phone with a Samsung rep because they replace the backup feature with a their OWN service?? They need to understand that they are not making the phone.

[Levent]

2 minutes ago, kamonanban said:

Speaking of Verizon, it is near impossible to troubleshoot a Verizon phone with a Samsung rep because they replace the backup feature with a their OWN service?? They need to understand that they are not making the phone.

And? If you are buying a carrier locked device it is almost guaranteed that they will be trying to make more money off you because you got the hardware for cheap and you are paying the rest with your personal identifiable data for ads or other services..

[Kazooduck]

1 minute ago, Levent said:

And? If you are buying a carrier locked device it is almost guaranteed that they will be trying to make more money off you because you got the hardware for cheap and you are paying the rest with your personal identifiable data for ads or other services..

I do agree, but such a core feature as backing up a phone should be diagnosable easily. I’m not disagreeing with them having some control over a phone i got bundled with my father’s, but seriously…

[OhioYJ]

What does rooting have to do with updating your phone? You do realize many people run custom ROMs and locked bootloader's without being rooted right? It is entirely possible to run open source software and on your phone, lock your bootloader, and not be rooted.

 

Custom ROM does not equal Rooted.

[Kazooduck]

1 hour ago, OhioYJ said:

What does rooting have to do with updating your phone? You do realize many people run custom ROMs and locked bootloader's without being rooted right? It is entirely possible to run open source software and on your phone, lock your bootloader, and not be rooted.

 

Custom ROM does not equal Rooted.

Apologies, that is how i thought it was, ill edit it now, thanks!

[OhioYJ]

50 minutes ago, kamonanban said:

Apologies, that is how i thought it was, ill edit it now, thanks!

Its a common misconception. Lots of people think custom ROM means automatically means unlocked bootloader as well. On some devices it does, but on lots devices if done properly you can run a custom ROM and relock your bootloader, regaining the security of a locked bootloader. (If done wrong it results in a bricked device, so don't just lock a bootloader when running a custom ROM)

 

That being said lots of people do run custom ROMs with them rooted, myself included.

[Kazooduck]

6 minutes ago, OhioYJ said:

Its a common misconception. Lots of people think custom ROM means automatically means unlocked bootloader as well. On some devices it does, but on lots devices if done properly you can run a custom ROM and relock your bootloader, regaining the security of a locked bootloader. (If done wrong it results in a bricked device, so don't just lock a bootloader when running a custom ROM)

 

That being said lots of people do run custom ROMs with them rooted, myself included.

I have a Samsung device so it makes no real difference to lock the boot loader after Knox is tripped imo, so I did t make the distinction 

[Kc7vwc]

I don't buy carrier devices - at least not for myself. (my kids get the carrier devices) 
I buy direct from manufacturer. Then I own the device right from the start, it has no bloatware, it's not carrier locked, and I don't have to wait for their bug-riddled versions of software. 
 

[TheNuzziNuzz]

On 4/19/2022 at 12:41 PM, kamonanban said:

Sadly it seems google wants to leave that as much as possible, now launchers need root for gestures to work properly?? Its going to be hard to implement a ui customizable more than one ui+good lock + nova/lawnchair/Niagara without rooting, and that’s a sad reality

Well, i'm not sure that is the case - however if it is, since manufactures are downloading android source code they have access to change those things.

 

Technically speaking, the manufacturer has root access. They are the ones that limit you to non root access. Not Google directly.,

[TheNuzziNuzz]

On 4/19/2022 at 12:45 PM, kamonanban said:

Thanks for letting me know! It also seems like for unlocked models its different too, there was a month in release time difference for my phone in Switzerland, to US unlocked, and i still dont have that update on verizon. Its a big mess, and it sucks because the update is there.

Speaking of Verizon, it is near impossible to troubleshoot a Verizon phone with a Samsung rep because they replace the backup feature with a their OWN service?? They need to understand that they are not making the phone.

That has nothing to do with unlocked vs locked.

The reason they are taking so long is because they have to build a custom version of the OS for each language, political region (europe has different laws than the us, for exmaple), and of course lastly cell tour frequencies.

They are going to perform these updates in order of populations effected. So, they will start with the regions with the most people, and work their way down to the least. Switzerland probably isn't too high on that list. US, EU, India for example all very likely have significantly more users of this particular phone compared to your country.

 

Additionally, you may find that carrier phone running the carrier specific OS gets significantly better cell coverage and call quality.

[TheNuzziNuzz]

On 4/19/2022 at 3:25 PM, OhioYJ said:

Its a common misconception. Lots of people think custom ROM means automatically means unlocked bootloader as well. On some devices it does, but on lots devices if done properly you can run a custom ROM and relock your bootloader, regaining the security of a locked bootloader. (If done wrong it results in a bricked device, so don't just lock a bootloader when running a custom ROM)

 

That being said lots of people do run custom ROMs with them rooted, myself included.

There are also situations, like with Oneplus 6s, were it was possible to install a custom rom, with root, with a locked bootloader because OxygenOS contained a rom flashing utility designed for OTAs.

[TheNuzziNuzz]

On 4/19/2022 at 9:02 PM, Kc7vwc said:

I don't buy carrier devices - at least not for myself. (my kids get the carrier devices) 
I buy direct from manufacturer. Then I own the device right from the start, it has no bloatware, it's not carrier locked, and I don't have to wait for their bug-riddled versions of software. 
 

While this makes alot of sense. I recently switched from AT&T to T-Mobile in the US. 

They gave me a 50% discount on the phone for signing a two year long contract with them that, after two years, will actually come out to being 50% of what AT&T was costing me for a less comparable cell plan + buying my phone outright. Additionally, T-Mobile's ROM that came on my locked Oneplus 9 from them got considerably better cell coverage and call quality.

 

I think there is huge value in buying a phone that the the carrier at least supports on their network. AT&T Never sold or supported OnePlus phones. And, using the carriers rom can improve things further by optimizing for the frequencies of their cell towers. That is a huge reason there are different roms for the same phone across different regions.

[Mark Kaine]

im in europe… we have the same thing… in which country is it different?

[Commodus]

To be clear, this is only how the Android update system tends to work.

 

All iPhone owners worldwide have access to the latest updates the very moment Apple launches them. You only end up waiting a little while (usually no more than a week) if you don't check for the update yourself. Now, I suspect Apple is conducting carrier validations and other behind-the-scenes work during beta stages to smooth those launches, but that still means you won't face delays because you use the wrong carrier or live in the wrong country.

 

For matter, I also like that Apple doesn't let carriers force bloatware on to iPhones. There are a handful of instances where it's legally required to do something extra and may enable carrier-specific features, but an iPhone on a US carrier will have the same apps and features as one in the UK, in India, in South Africa...

[Kazooduck]

1 hour ago, Mark Kaine said:

im in europe… we have the same thing… in which country is it different?

Thanks for the feedback, changed the title