How do you illustrate the importance of a psu in a system to non tech folks?

[Vacationland]

I am trying to better demonstrate the importance of a better built, reviewed, more expensive psu to folks who are not really tech savvy other than "the lights looks pretty".  

They can afford really nice stuff, but unfortunately they only really care about the light show or they would rather not spend the $50 to upgrade to a better reviewed psu. 
 

I hear the same set of parameters

1. I need to be up and running at all times because my work is very important.
2. I can't lose my data or pictures or videos.

3. I need the fastest processor, gpu and all the onboard storage. 

4. I don't need a better psu than a no name brand, non modular psu. It says 80+ Gold. Gold is good right?

5. I don't want to spend money needlessly like you. I just ordered my Apple monitor. I am spending where it counts. (Seriously. FML)

6. I need the fastest, best, reliable system for my workflow. Because lord alone knows that these photos/videos won't retouch themselves.

7. Also I live in a loft with jenky power. And why would I need a UPS? Its so big and makes so much clutter. I can use this power strip from 2003.

 

There's no way a transient power spike talk is happening. Or lets differ to the safe side and make sure that the weekly power outages in your building might not be good for sensitive electronics devices that hold critical information. 

But my phone is sensitive it hasn't broken yet ( Meanwhile,  on their third iPhone 13, because the other two magically bricked ).

 

This is a running conversation I have daily. With friends, not friends, not friends kids, not friends parents, imbecile coworkers, boss, bosses boss, bosses boss wife, someone named Keri (no idea who they are) and the person from 12b who is on fire beautiful. 

 

I am at my wits end right now. I've tried the cost analysis approach. I've tried the data recovery is expensive approach. I've tried the I'm not IT approach. 

I'm about to be like "Well well well if these aren't the consequences of your actions coming back to settle up with you"

If anyone has a spiel that they usually use to get this point across other than "You're F*@$" 
I'd welcome it.

 

 

[An0maly_76]

The trouble with your proposition is that people don't want to be bothered with such things -- aka "you can't fix stupid". It's unfortunately become fashionable in today's society for one not to want to know anything about anything until something bites one in the ass, preferring to complain about the problem they created for themselves by not listening, even blaming inanimate objects or other people (usually the person who tried to tell them) for the problem they created, rather than do anything to actually solve it.

 

My father does this on a regular basis. He's gotten exceedingly cheap in his golden years, refusing to spend a few extra bucks to get quality items, then complaining that everything he has is junk when it continually breaks (because he wouldn't spend the money to fix things right the first time). A few shining examples...

 

With the health issues I have, I can't afford to short-change my transportation. When I spent $200 for a good AGM battery for my car, he hit the roof, preferring to get $50 cheapies from Wal-Mart. Are we taking bets on who's needed a jumpstart and who hasn't?

 

Moving on, I bought him a fairly new quality riding mower (a REAL John Deere - not that knockoff crap you buy at Lowe's) in 2015. It has an OHV engine with a pressure lubrication system that requires regular oil changes, and he has yet to change the oil in it. He refuses to allow me to schedule on-site service for it, so I'm just waiting to hear him griping that the engine blew up.

 

He dismissed a nice Impala he owned as a pile of junk when it had served him well for over 200,000 miles. Reason being that he had replaced the power steering pump six times in a few short years. Why? Because he refused to spend the money to get a quality part the first time. Instead of paying $100 for a quality replacement part so he would only have to pay someone $50-$100 to replace it once, he cheaped out and got a $50 cheapie that failed within 6-9 months. Rinse, lather and repeat, same junk brand, five or six times. Result? $900 spent chasing a problem that could have been fixed with $200. The same rigamarole applied to a van he just got rid of. It, too was a pile of junk, because he wouldn't spend the money to get a good-quality replacement fuel pump.

 

So, in summary, good luck instilling common sense in a society that refuses to listen.

Edited April 13, 2022 by An0maly_76
Revised, more info

[samcool55]

You can warn them as much as you want, if they don't wanna hear it then they won't.

You tried to educate and warn them but if they don't want to listen, don't put more time and energy in it.

 

If they end up losing important data, that's their loss. Just make sure your setup is actually decent.

If it's work related. Get it all in writing (CYA) and get in (digital) writing they accept the potential risks of not executing/following your advice.

Just make sure you have it written down somewhere! Once they accept taking responsibility, it's no longer your problem/worry.

[Moonzy]

19 minutes ago, Vacationland said:

If anyone has a spiel that they usually use to get this point across other than "You're F*@$" 

my style: i'll tell you about it twice at most, three times if we're good buddies

but if you still want to continue, go ahead, as long as it doesnt affect me in any way

u can bring the water to a cow, but you cannot force it to drink it

[BiotechBen]

1 hour ago, An0maly_76 said:

The trouble with your proposition is that people don't want to be bothered with such things -- aka "you can't fix stupid". It's unfortunately become fashionable in today's society for one not to want to know anything about anything until something bites one in the ass, preferring to complain about the problem they created for themselves by not listening, even blaming inanimate objects or other people (usually the person who tried to tell them) for the problem they created, rather than do anything to actually solve it.

 

My father does this on a regular basis. He's gotten exceedingly cheap in his golden years, refusing to spend a few extra bucks to get quality items, then complaining that everything he has is junk when it continually breaks (because he wouldn't spend the money to fix things right the first time). A few shining examples...

 

With the health issues I have, I can't afford to short-change my transportation. When I spent $200 for a good AGM battery for my car, he hit the roof, preferring to get $50 cheapies from Wal-Mart. Are we taking bets on who's needed a jumpstart and who hasn't?

 

Moving on, I bought him a fairly new quality riding mower (a REAL John Deere - not that knockoff crap you buy at Lowe's) in 2015. It has an OHV engine with a pressure lubrication system that requires regular oil changes, and he has yet to change the oil in it. He refuses to allow me to schedule on-site service for it, so I'm just waiting to hear him griping that the engine blew up.

 

He dismissed a nice Impala he owned as a pile of junk when it had served him well for over 200,000 miles. Reason being that he had replaced the power steering pump six times in a few short years. Why? Because he refused to spend the money to get a quality part the first time. Instead of paying $100 for a quality replacement part so he would only have to pay someone $50-$100 to replace it once, he cheaped out and got a $50 cheapie that failed within 6-9 months. Rinse, lather and repeat, same junk brand, five or six times. Result? $900 spent chasing a problem that could have been fixed with $200. The same rigamarole applied to a van he just got rid of. It, too was a pile of junk, because he wouldn't spend the money to get a good-quality replacement fuel pump.

 

So, in summary, good luck instilling common sense in a society that refuses to listen.

Same kind of situation with my late grandfather. Quite literally a rocket scientist, as an engineer has was quite particular about things and the number of times he pulled out a manual demanding that only OEM parts were suitable (this man never replaced things, just repaired the same crap quality thing 6 times instead of doing right the first time) and he would pull out am old yellowed manual and demand that it HAD to be THIS PART NUMBER, which would ultimately lead to an argument with my father because either it didn't exist anymore, had been replaced, or was only available from like Uzbekistan with a 6 month lead time at great cost and grandad "wouldn't pay some foreigners for his American made quality" (hateful, proud, mean, conceited, man his entire life).

Trying to convince him to deviate for a newer, better product over what the 25yr old manual said was like trying to force water from a stone. He also could not grasp the fact that batteries have a limited charge cycle, and eventually no longer hold a charge. A point of contention between him and me with his shitty old underpowered black and decker weed Wacker.

[RollyShed]

1 hour ago, Vacationland said:

I am trying to better demonstrate the importance of a better built, reviewed, more expensive psu to folks who are not really tech savvy other than "the lights looks pretty". 

Considering the PSUs in all the computers round here would be 5 - 10 years old and are the supplies that came with the computers, that they will continue working as long as the computers work, I don't see what this "buy expensive" thing is all about.

 

The computers are used every day, all day (switched off at night) so they do get used.

 

Never ever in 30+ years have I lost data due to a power supply failing. Yes I've had power supplies that have needed servicing. Even the motherboard of this computer needed a capacitor changed a year ago.

 

Tech savvy? I've only been in electronics full time for 50+ years so possibly I know a little. You don't get called in half way round the world to do a fix job for NASA if you don't know which end of a soldering iron is hot.

[RollyShed]

The "pay more it will be better" is a "land-fill" attitude.

 

OK, computer problems - my partner looses all of her work dating back for years. Cost of the system?
What do you pay Microsoft for a system? A lot?
What do you pay Linux? Nothing.

 

Microsoft wiped everything on my partner's computer, Google "MS deleted files October 2018" for this and about the million others also effected.

 

Fortunately everything was backed up on another disk (with Linux on it) and she simply carried on PAYING NOTHING and using a reliable system.

Pay money, disaster.
Pay nothing, a dependable system.

 

At one stage, a few years back, a commercial accounting system MYOB, always giving trouble due to their software. Use FREE GnuCash, never a problem.

 

So your suggestion, go and spend a lot of money on a PSU, is basically stupid to put it mildly.

 

FREE means reliable otherwise it wouldn't be used.

[jaslion]

It's simple really. Tell them and warn them. If they won't listen their problem not yours.

 

Your case pretty much just say that in case of irregular net behavior the computer can take damage without a good psu or having a ups. A ups is not required but a good addition if you wish to be certain a ups can prevent any damage to your system.

 

Getting a cheap psu means that there is a good chance the system will often lose power if it's too low quality. I recommend a good unit. Also no need to overspend here just a good unit is all you need with a bit of a buffer in case something odd happens on the powernet.

 

If you do want to go with the cheaper unit do know that when they fail they usually kill the entire computer. They also have a much higher failure rate. The better ones will stop themselves from damaging other parts when the work as intended. So usually worst case is a quick psu swap and you are back up and running. (then I show them the burned out pc I have on display) :p.

[RollyShed]

1 hour ago, jaslion said:

If you do want to go with the cheaper unit do know that when they fail they usually kill the entire computer. They also have a much higher failure rate. The better ones will stop themselves from damaging other parts when the work as intended. So usually worst case is a quick psu swap and you are back up and running. (then I show them the burned out pc I have on display) :p.

In 40+ years I've never had a PSU failure kill anything. Yes, I've serviced 50 or more (many more...) power supplies in my time. Each of these required capacitor replacement and it didn't matter the quality, they still had bad capacitors due to the millions of bad ones produced especially those of 1999 - 2007.

 

How many PSUs have you serviced?

Do you know what to look for in a PSU?

Do you know how they work?

 

Burnt out PC. What burnt out?

[BiotechBen]

27 minutes ago, Caroline said:

Look, after years of dealing with users in all their glory I can only tell you: don't bother, the guy wants to use a $2 extension cord to power his computer? let him.

 

Think a 80+ Gold PSU is great just because it's 80+ Gold and unironically believe 80+ is a quality rating than an efficiency one? just tell him he's right and leave, see, with users you have to proceed like a psychiatrist does with insane patients, always tell them they're right and don't force common sense on them, or else.

 

People believe chocolate milk comes from brown cows and that if you tie a knot in your space heater's cable it'll slow down the power so that the bill is lower, once you hear enough of this ridiculous bs you don't even care anymore, and that's fine, it saves you stress and time you can use for something productive.

 

Ah, my uncle. Asked me to repair a pair of burnt fluorescent tubes like I'm some sort of techno-sorceress so I said ok I can't fix them but I can replace them, got a pair from my stash and went back to his place, then he dead serious says "no but mine were made in japan look it says here and these are made in china and I don't want no chinese shit" (80% of the things he owns are made in china because he's a cheap f*ck tbh) so his kitchen light is basically decorative to this day.

I know that pain... 

[OhioYJ]

On 4/13/2022 at 5:52 AM, Vacationland said:

I am at my wits end right now. I've tried the cost analysis approach. I've tried the data recovery is expensive approach. I've tried the I'm not IT approach. 

I'm about to be like "Well well well if these aren't the consequences of your actions coming back to settle up with you"

Why do you mess with it then? I reached a point a long time ago, if I build it, it will be to "my standard", otherwise I'm not doing it. If I have to warranty / support  it, it will have quality parts in it. I'm not going to worry about it. This doesn't mean every build is super expensive, but it does mean I'm definitely not the cheapest, as there are places I won't cut corners. If you want something cheaper, I'll be happy to recommend you a Dell or something. All you can do is say this is my recommendation, and why I do things this way.

[Middcore]

Let adults make their own mistakes. 

[Guest]

I'll tell you what... if it weren't for cheap power supplies, I don't know what my career would be today.

 

I worked for a retailer about 20 years ago.  People would come back with the builds with dead boards, graphics cards, etc. that were dead after almost or just over 1 year.  But the builds we did with the same motherboards and graphics cards easily stayed in the field for 5 or more.  

 

Turned out the variable was the power supply.  A dear friend of mine, that worked for Antec at the time, showed me how to properly test PSUs and what to look for.  In testing these returns using an SM-258 and a CRT oscilloscope (hey.. this was 20 years ago), we found that the voltage regulation and ripple was so bad with these PSUs, that they were killing parts down stream.  After that, I dedicated my life to exposing garbage PSUs and how they can kill your system.