Apple M1 Ultra - 2nd highest multicore score, lost to 64-core AMD Threadripper.

[LAwLz]

13 hours ago, Obioban said:

There's no way Apple ditches the Rosetta bits in M2. Way too soon.

And the "cool trick" Apple uses for Rosetta 2 is just standard Arm instructions. The idea that Apple are doing some specialized hardware to get higher performance translation seems to be a false assumption people made early on. 

[atxcyclist]

18 hours ago, Obioban said:

Amusingly, my wife's company recently fired 2/3 of their IT department because they wouldn't get onboard with moving from Windows to MacOS. IT has as much power as the company wants them to have.

 

She's now happily on a 16" MacBook Pro M1 Max, after a decade of hating her Lenovos.

Well, if the principals at an architectural design firm like I work at decided to force their BIM/CAD techs to use Macs, then the whole company would deserve to spiral into the ground as that industry isn't supported on Macs well at all. 

 

I work in a small firm, we will be using Windows x86-64 machines because that's what the industry is using. There will be no discussion on my end, if the boss wants me to efficiently do my job on $10million+ projects, then it will be on the industry-supported hardware I specify. Luckily, my boss isn't an idiot and we run the machines that run our software, as it should be.

[atxcyclist]

14 hours ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

r/woooosh

He's saying that when you said "I'm not apart of your little ecosystem, we only have x86". You essentially said "I'm not a part of your ecosystem, BECAUSE I have my own tiny ecosystem."

Your company is definitely not big enough to be compared to the entirety of the market, and therefore you can go and shove your company experience up your butt. There is a reason Apple still exists. There is a reason why they have such a large market share (compared to anything that isn't Windows, but even then, Windows is losing significant market share due to Apple, and Chromebooks), is because there are people out there who find MacOS to be better for their workloads. You personally may not need that for your company, but other companies would use these things. Even companies you might not even think of.

My father has a Non-profit Advocate law firm, and hey tried using things such as Google Drive, DropBox, and other software that I have literally never heard of before, in order to share files among all of his employees when they went digital. Most of his employees had Windows devices, my father and one other person had Macs. They had a horrible time getting DropBox to work properly just between Windows computers, let alone Windows->Mac and vice versa. But the Macs had 0 issues with DropBox. So, what do you think they did? That's right, the entire firm transitioned over to Macs, with the only software issues being a result of a bug in accounting software. 

Windows x86 isn't a tiny ecosystem, at all, especially not in some industries like the one I work in. 

 

A bunch of people using desktop productivity stuff that will run on Chromebooks probably don't care, This insistence some of you have that everyone just needs a computer for word processing and web browsing, and 'Macs do fine at that', don't understand that there are many specific industries full of power users which are supported nearly 0% on native Mac OS. DropBox? If that's the most complicated software some business uses then they could do that on $350 Dell Inspiron computers, that's not a difficult workload. That's an IT problem not setting-up employee systems, we use DropBox in Windows with zero issues.

 

This software discussion also ignores the point that most Apple computers are not upgradable, so if one specific aspect of a system is under-performing on an Apple, you're buying another $6000 system. Meanwhile, years after building my Windows machine I might be spending a few hundred bucks on memory, a bigger internal drive, or a newer GPU and getting years longer out of a system that probably cost a third of the Apple's price.

 

Try doing building envelope calculations with Windows x86-only software on a Mac, or try using Windows-x86 building modelling software on a Mac. There is no OSX-equivalent software to what I use. It isn't that I need or don't need Apple's ecosystem, their ecosystem is worthless for my job, and people should understand there are industries where that is the case. If I'm working on a 1965 Ford F-100 made in Kentucky, a metric socket set is the wrong one to buy, so why insist that's what I should be buying?

[WolframaticAlpha]

18 hours ago, Obioban said:

There's no way Apple ditches the Rosetta bits in M2. Way too soon.

It's been 2+ years. Most of the software is already ported. Wouldn't be surprised if they ditch it.

[Video Beagle]

21 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

Apple building bridges for everything lol. 

CPU Legos

Sticklebricks...I said Sticklebricks.

[Obioban]

54 minutes ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

It's been 2+ years. Most of the software is already ported. Wouldn't be surprised if they ditch it.

Rosetta 1 was supported from 2006 to 2011. They also ended it with a transition (not installed by default but could be), and announcement in advance that it would end (to give developers one last kick in the ass).

 

Rosetta 2 has been in use for less than 2 years so far (M1 shipped in Nov 2020 IIRC). Some key apps still haven't made the transition-- e.g. MS Teams (that's actually it for apps I use, but I use that a lot).

 

Too soon. No warning. Minimal penalty for leaving it in place. Not happening yet.

[Dracarris]

4 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

A bunch of people using desktop productivity stuff that will run on Chromebooks probably don't care, This insistence some of you have that everyone just needs a computer for word processing and web browsing, and 'Macs do fine at that', don't understand that there are many specific industries full of power users which are supported nearly 0% on native Mac OS.

Well nobody claimed that this is all you can use Macs for (they can do tons more) and nobody claimed everyone only does word processing.

4 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

Try doing building envelope calculations with Windows x86-only software on a Mac, or try using Windows-x86 building modelling software on a Mac. There is no OSX-equivalent software to what I use.

So what special Software are you/your company excatly using? Architect CAD/building modeling goes strongly into the creative professional corner where Macs are traditionally very widespread and whenever an architect firm is mentioned in a documentary I see a fleet of Macs in the background. A quick Google search reveals that among many others AutoCAD, Archicad, CorelCAD and VectorWorks are fully supported on Mac. 0% support you say?

4 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

This software discussion also ignores the point that most Apple computers are not upgradable, so if one specific aspect of a system is under-performing on an Apple, you're buying another $6000 system. Meanwhile, years after building my Windows machine I might be spending a few hundred bucks on memory, a bigger internal drive, or a newer GPU and getting years longer out of a system that probably cost a third of the Apple's price.

Isn't the trend for work computers strongly going towards only leasing machines and replacing them completely every few years? And also more towards high-perf laptops coupled with external monitors such that not every employee needs two computers for going to customers, working at home etc.?

[DANK_AS_gay]

6 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

Windows x86 isn't a tiny ecosystem, at all, especially not in some industries like the one I work in.

In some industries LIKE the one you work in. I was talking about YOUR SPECIFIC (comparatively)TINY ECOSYSTEM. I was not talking about all x86-64. I'm not stupid.

6 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

DropBox? If that's the most complicated software some business uses then they could do that on $350 Dell Inspiron computers,

The point was that it WASN'T working on $350 DELLs. That's why they switched. Did you even read what I wrote? Or did you just form an argument without even thinking about what I said?

 

6 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

Meanwhile, years after building my Windows machine I might be spending a few hundred bucks on memory, a bigger internal drive, or a newer GPU

Ever heard of the ship of Theseus?

6 hours ago, atxcyclist said:

Try doing building envelope calculations with Windows x86-only software on a Mac, or try using Windows-x86 building modelling software on a Mac.

I'm not insisting that Macs are the best for everyone, I know full well they aren't, what I AM trying to say, is that x86-64 is getting on in age. If Intel wanted to make their processors capable of the same single core performance, they would have to entirely redesign their entire processor, down to the basic transistor logic. Apple is proving that in order to get more efficient, we need a complete overhaul of the current way we design processors. Intel and AMD can no longer rely on processing node shrinkage to get sufficient efficiency to counteract the additional waste energy resulting from additional complexity. Plus, if people DO buy into the Apple ecosystem, software will be ported/developed for it. Plus, we don't have a Mac Pro Apple Silicon yet.

[Spindel]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

Well nobody claimed that this is all you can use Macs for (they can do tons more) and nobody claimed everyone only does word processing.

So what special Software are you/your company excatly using? Architect CAD/building modeling goes strongly into the creative professional corner where Macs are traditionally very widespread and whenever an architect firm is mentioned in a documentary I see a fleet of Macs in the background. A quick Google search reveals that among many others AutoCAD, Archicad, CorelCAD and VectorWorks are fully supported on Mac. 0% support you say?

Isn't the trend for work computers strongly going towards only leasing machines and replacing them completely every few years? And also more towards high-perf laptops coupled with external monitors such that not every employee needs two computers for going to customers, working at home etc.?

To defend that user a bit there are some not so small engineering CAD that is not released  for Mac like Revit, MagiCAD, SolidWorks to name a few and that really sucks. 
 

I my self work in engineering and luckily for me I currently only need AutoCAD and I do not suffer from the Mac version not being feature complete either. 
 

Currently from AutoDesk you can be a Mac user as long as you only need AutoCAD and Fusion 360 otherwise you will have no luck. 
 

But all of this is a catch 22, there are to few Mac users to port engineering software to Mac. But engineers a lot of the time don’t have the option to move to Mac because the software they need isn’t available on Mac. 

[atxcyclist]

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Well nobody claimed that this is all you can use Macs for (they can do tons more) and nobody claimed everyone only does word processing.

So what special Software are you/your company excatly using? Architect CAD/building modeling goes strongly into the creative professional corner where Macs are traditionally very widespread and whenever an architect firm is mentioned in a documentary I see a fleet of Macs in the background. A quick Google search reveals that among many others AutoCAD, Archicad, CorelCAD and VectorWorks are fully supported on Mac. 0% support you say?

Isn't the trend for work computers strongly going towards only leasing machines and replacing them completely every few years? And also more towards high-perf laptops coupled with external monitors such that not every employee needs two computers for going to customers, working at home etc.?

Actually, people in this thread were saying Windows x86 was going to be replaced, that is why I’m in this discussion.

 

You’re confusing graphic design and actual building creation. Architectural building modeling software is not supported readily in OSX, the stuff I use could be run in bootcamp and parallels, but those are not a thing anymore because these newer machines don’t run Windows.

 

None of that software is building modeling, you just don’t know this industry. We’re moving away from line-drawn CAD, have been for over a decade now. That doesn’t prove you can do MY job on a Mac.

 

A good workstation can last a long time, no architectural firm or engineering firm I know of rents computers, most of them have them custom built or someone in the firm like the IT department puts them together. We’ve always had custom-built machines, you get exactly what you want and don’t overpay.

[atxcyclist]

30 minutes ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

In some industries LIKE the one you work in. I was talking about YOUR SPECIFIC (comparatively)TINY ECOSYSTEM. I was not talking about all x86-64. I'm not stupid.

The point was that it WASN'T working on $350 DELLs. That's why they switched. Did you even read what I wrote? Or did you just form an argument without even thinking about what I said?

 

Ever heard of the ship of Theseus?

I'm not insisting that Macs are the best for everyone, I know full well they aren't, what I AM trying to say, is that x86-64 is getting on in age. If Intel wanted to make their processors capable of the same single core performance, they would have to entirely redesign their entire processor, down to the basic transistor logic. Apple is proving that in order to get more efficient, we need a complete overhaul of the current way we design processors. Intel and AMD can no longer rely on processing node shrinkage to get sufficient efficiency to counteract the additional waste energy resulting from additional complexity. Plus, if people DO buy into the Apple ecosystem, software will be ported/developed for it. Plus, we don't have a Mac Pro Apple Silicon yet.

 

DropBox works on anything, whoever set those computers up had no idea what they were doing and that’s just facts. You can write a mountain of false statements, that doesn’t mean I will agree with them.

Just because you won’t accept that x86 has had a much larger adoption rate than Apple machines and especially ARM-based machine for the last 40 years of personal computing, won’t change that it’s still by far the biggest.

 

Except that upgradability and modularity are selling points, even if you don’t understand why; That’swhy closed ecosystems like Apple and the people supporting ARM are not ever going to win over people like me, I have to be able to slot more ram in or more internal storage down the line, most power users need this so they’re not burning money fully replacing machines every few years.

[Dracarris]

56 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

None of that software is building modeling, you just don’t know this industry. We’re moving away from line-drawn CAD, have been for over a decade now. That doesn’t prove you can do MY job on a Mac.

They LITERALLY say right on their landing page that they are for building modeling with renders and screenshots of actual buildings in the background?! I was never talking about graphics design, ofc, I am not this stupid. You can't tell me that architect companys don't use Macs at all. So if all of the ones I listed don't suite your needs, which programs are you using?

 

Instead of teaching people how little they know, how about you all give us a little insight from the view of the expert that you are?

58 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

A good workstation can last a long time, no architectural firm or engineering firm I know of rents computers, most of them have them custom built or someone in the firm like the IT department puts them together. We’ve always had custom-built machines, you get exactly what you want and don’t overpay.

I'd do a solid balance check of the cost again and this time factor in the cost of the people that design, build and maintain the custom built machines. Might be that leasing is more for regular laptop a thing and not pro workstations.

[Dracarris]

1 hour ago, Spindel said:

To defend that user a bit there are some not so small engineering CAD that is not released  for Mac like Revit, MagiCAD, SolidWorks to name a few and that really sucks. 

yeah indeed there are some gaping holes like some of the larger "classical" CAD suites for mechanical engineering, and then there is Altium/Nexus for the EE department which I dearly miss. I was just under the impression that everything in the direction of "creative" design is well supported on Mac, from classical graphic design to video editing and 3D CAD.

Cinema4D is also supported on Mac but the way I understand it that one is more for animation (but still 3D CAD and somehow a weird mixture/in between).

[DANK_AS_gay]

1 hour ago, atxcyclist said:

Just because you won’t accept that x86 has had a much larger adoption rate than Apple machines and especially ARM-based machine for the last 40 years of personal computing, won’t change that it’s still by far the biggest.

Still not quite sure if you can actually read:

2 hours ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

I was not talking about all x86-64. I'm not stupid.

Hmm, it's almost as if I specifically stated that I wasn't saying that x86-64 was a small part of the market. Hmmm. Curious.

1 hour ago, atxcyclist said:

DropBox works on anything, whoever set those computers up had no idea what they were doing and that’s just facts.

Why should you need an IT guy for a company as small as my father's? That's prohibitively expensive, especially when working with non-for-profits, who have very little money in general (again, comparatively) to pay a lawyer for such complex topics. My father has to have a tiny profit margin in order to attract business, and the more time spent fiddling with such a finicky operating system, the more money lost. Especially when you are being paid by the hour. So, when MacOS is far more stable (due to tight integration), that means less time fiddling with settings and more time filing tax documents. For a normal business, buying a 500$ Dell every other year seems to be the norm because "that's all you need". Then they do a *surprised pikachu face* when the awful laptop breaks, or fails to be good enough for more than 2 years. Or you can get a MacBook that will last at least 5 years, most likely 8 years or above.

1 hour ago, atxcyclist said:

I have to be able to slot more ram in

So, we do something called "I want my computer to last a while, and since I can't upgrade it later, I'll pay more up front instead of splitting my payment into two parts." i.e If you are going to need more RAM in the future, buy more now. Only need 16GB right now? Buy 32GB! Only need 64GB right now? Buy 128GB! That way, you don't have to "slot in more RAM" in the future! It's already there! Wow, what a novel concept! It's almost like a computer is an investment and not just a temporary cost!

1 hour ago, atxcyclist said:

or more internal storage down the line

get a NAS and fast internet, when processing a large quantity of data, it's unreasonable to expect everyone's computers to all have enough storage when you can just get a seperate machine. (Petabyte project comes to mind)

 

[atxcyclist]

46 minutes ago, Dracarris said:

They LITERALLY say right on their landing page that they are for building modeling with renders and screenshots of actual buildings in the background?! I was never talking about graphics design, ofc, I am not this stupid. You can't tell me that architect companys don't use Macs at all. So if all of the ones I listed don't suite your needs, which programs are you using?

 

Instead of teaching people how little they know, how about you all give us a little insight from the view of the expert that you are?

I'd do a solid balance check of the cost again and this time factor in the cost of the people that design, build and maintain the custom built machines. Might be that leasing is more for regular laptop a thing and not pro workstations.

Apple has their sales pitch but the software we use at my firm isn’t compatible, so it doesn’t matter. There have been dozens of vector-line CAD programs made for Mac OSX, but the industry is moving away from those as that isn’t efficient for production phases of projects.

 

We use Revit, it’s Windows-based and only ram under parallels in x86 OSX. Any architectural firm trying to get work out efficiently beyond a certain size is going to use something like Revit,

 

I don’t really have to justify my level of competency in my job to you or anyone else, no one on here is going to tell me how to do my job. You want a Mac? Buy one, but my business isn’t.

[Commodus]

7 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

 

DropBox works on anything, whoever set those computers up had no idea what they were doing and that’s just facts. You can write a mountain of false statements, that doesn’t mean I will agree with them.

Just because you won’t accept that x86 has had a much larger adoption rate than Apple machines and especially ARM-based machine for the last 40 years of personal computing, won’t change that it’s still by far the biggest.

 

Except that upgradability and modularity are selling points, even if you don’t understand why; That’swhy closed ecosystems like Apple and the people supporting ARM are not ever going to win over people like me, I have to be able to slot more ram in or more internal storage down the line, most power users need this so they’re not burning money fully replacing machines every few years.

As big a stride forward as ARM-based Macs may be, it is important to keep expectations in check this way. The x86 architecture has a lot of momentum, it's not going to change overnight, and there will still be people who need x86, RAM/GPU modularity or both for a long while to come.

 

There is a question about x86's long-term health in certain parts of the computer market, though. As much as Alder Lake and (eventually) Zen 4 have stepped up the game for x86, there is a concern that Apple is improving its ARM hardware for general computing and creative work faster than AMD and Intel are improving x86 chips in those respects. Yeah, devoted gamers, engineers and some others will still want x86 (and usually Windows-based) PCs, but it may be harder to sell someone on a Windows laptop in a few years if a comparable MacBook is noticeably faster and longer-lived. That's already somewhat true today.

 

I'm not expecting Apple to suddenly grab a huge chunk of the computer market, but AMD and Intel won't want to remain complacent. Part of why Apple is so strong in phones, tablets and smartwatches is that it improves in-house silicon performance relatively aggressively and consistently. There's no 14nm+++++++++++, no "we don't care and it shows" laziness (looking at you, Qualcomm PC and wearable teams)... just new parts with tangible improvements, in many cases every year. If AMD, Intel and Qualcomm are the basketball players who've gotten complacent and occasionally skip training, Apple is the player that wins simply by showing up to practice every time, no matter how well they're doing on the court.

[atxcyclist]

12 minutes ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

Still not quite sure if you can actually read:

Hmm, it's almost as if I specifically stated that I wasn't saying that x86-64 was a small part of the market. Hmmm. Curious.

Why should you need an IT guy for a company as small as my father's? That's prohibitively expensive, especially when working with non-for-profits, who have very little money in general (again, comparatively) to pay a lawyer for such complex topics. My father has to have a tiny profit margin in order to attract business, and the more time spent fiddling with such a finicky operating system, the more money lost. Especially when you are being paid by the hour. So, when MacOS is far more stable (due to tight integration), that means less time fiddling with settings and more time filing tax documents. For a normal business, buying a 500$ Dell every other year seems to be the norm because "that's all you need". Then they do a *surprised pikachu face* when the awful laptop breaks, or fails to be good enough for more than 2 years. Or you can get a MacBook that will last at least 5 years, most likely 8 years or above.

So, we do something called "I want my computer to last a while, and since I can't upgrade it later, I'll pay more up front instead of splitting my payment into two parts." i.e If you are going to need more RAM in the future, buy more now. Only need 16GB right now? Buy 32GB! Only need 64GB right now? Buy 128GB! That way, you don't have to "slot in more RAM" in the future! It's already there! Wow, what a novel concept! It's almost like a computer is an investment and not just a temporary cost!

get a NAS and fast internet, when processing a large quantity of data, it's unreasonable to expect everyone's computers to all have enough storage when you can just get a seperate machine. (Petabyte project comes to mind)

 

Paying someone to set up a few computers once doesn’t require an IT department. Overspending by hundreds or a thousand dollars on each computer because you won’t pay a consultant to set up a handful of computers, is actually a waste of money and poor business management.

 

A MacBook isn’t a workstation and NAS doesn’t replace everything, and with that lack of understanding on your end I’m done discussing this with you. Also, because of your condescending attitude and calling me illiterate means I’m going to just ignore list you.

[Dracarris]

32 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Apple has their sales pitch but the software we use at my firm isn’t compatible, so it doesn’t matter. There have been dozens of vector-line CAD programs made for Mac OSX, but the industry is moving away from those as that isn’t efficient for production phases of projects.

That has zero to do with Apple. That's on the landing pages of the respective CAD software manufacturer. By "the industry" you are referring to your industry, I guess, or otherwise - according to you -- tools like AutoCAD will become obsolete soon?

 

If the industry is moving away now, this might as well mean that non-line base programs are soon going to be available on Mac as well.

32 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

I don’t really have to justify my level of competency in my job to you or anyone else, no one on here is going to tell me how to do my job. You want a Mac? Buy one, but my business isn’t.

Well nobody asked you to, but you act overly aggressive in this whole thread with tbh quite poor justification, and also not exactly in a constructive way. After dozens of such replies, and me insisting, we finally get the actual name of one incompatible suite that your company is using that your are then extrapolating to your whole industry. I'm still having my doubts about whether your company is one island where moving to non-x86 is not possible because of one crucial design suite. Have you checked that all of the "something like Revit" alternatives are not available on macOS?

26 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

Paying someone to set up a few computers once doesn’t require an IT department. Overspending by hundreds or a thousand dollars on each computer because you won’t pay a consultant to set up a handful of computers, is actually a waste of money and poor business management.

One IT guy already costs a company around 100k per year, so they could overspend 1k on 100 machines each year, as that IT guy is a recurring cost.

 

As several sources have already pointed out, the 6k Mac Studio is for the delivered performance a good deal that can't be matched with x86 parts.

26 minutes ago, atxcyclist said:

A MacBook isn’t a workstation

It isn't? Maybe check again what the current 14" and 16" M1 Pro and Max can do in combination with one or more external screens. What characterisitc exactly makes it a non-workstation (given the required SW runs on it ofc)?

[atxcyclist]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

That has zero to do with Apple. That's on the landing pages of the respective CAD software manufacturer. By "the industry" you are referring to your industry, I guess, or otherwise - according to you -- tools like AutoCAD will become obsolete soon?

 

If the industry is moving away now, this might as well mean that non-line base programs are soon going to be available on Mac as well.

Well nobody asked you to, but you act overly aggressive in this whole thread with tbh quite poor justification, and also not exactly in a constructive way. After dozens of such replies, and me insisting, we finally get the actual name of one incompatible suite that your company is using that your are then extrapolating to your whole industry. I'm still having my doubts about whether your company is one island where moving to non-x86 is not possible because of one crucial design suite. Have you checked that all of the "something like Revit" alternatives are not available on macOS?

One IT guy already costs a company around 100k per year, so they could overspend 1k on 100 machines each year, as that IT guy is a recurring cost.

 

As several sources have already pointed out, the 6k Mac Studio is for the delivered performance a good deal that can't be matched with x86 parts.

It isn't? Maybe check again what the current 14" and 16" M1 Pro and Max can do in combination with one or more external screens. What characterisitc exactly makes it a non-workstation (given the required SW runs on it ofc)?

And there have been years for actual useful building modeling software to go over to Mac OSX, I’ve been using it almost twenty years, and no one has because Windows x86 is working fine and offers other benefits like backward compatibility for Windows programs decades-old.

 

For large projects, vector line drawing CAD programs make no sense during most phases of design, because it’s just sketching lines and not building complex models that can have sections cut, have wall construction information, and etc. And no, programs similar to and as powerful as Revit don’t exist on OSX, and Revit is the Autodesk BIM software anyway, so everything else will not be as universally compatible.

Autodesk isn’t going to focus on OSX compatibility for software like Revit because there’s no desire from their software purchasers, like me, to invest in overly-expensive and confining closed ecosystems like Apple’s hardware and software. I do production-level work on a $1000 workstation I built out of consumer-level parts, that’s less than a Mac Mini that’s only equipped with 1/4 the amount of RAM I need.

 

And paying a consultant a few grand to set up new computers isn’t anywhere near $100k. That dude was talking about DropBox anyway, I think he’s just full of it, it’s incredibly easy to run and use that software on any platform that supports it.

 

But it’s not a good deal if your software doesn’t work on it, and not a good deal if you need specialty hardware expansion that doesn’t work with OSX. Also, to power users a workstation needs to be expandable internally for things like video cards, RAM, internal storage, networking, and other interfacing cards. Something like a Mac Studio or a MacBook doesn’t offer those things. The fact that you have to buy everything up front at a highly inflated (comparatively speaking) price because Apple, and you cannot do anything but plug a bunch of dongles and externals drives to one of their newer systems, is not helpful to many people.

[WolframaticAlpha]

https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/17/22982915/apple-m1-ultra-rtx-3090-comparison-specs-charts-cpu-gpu-performance

 

I know, I know, it's the verge, but the M1 ultra GPU is not coming out looking good, though ultrafusion looks really really nice

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, Dracarris said:

That has zero to do with Apple. That's on the landing pages of the respective CAD software manufacturer. By "the industry" you are referring to your industry, I guess, or otherwise - according to you -- tools like AutoCAD will become obsolete soon?

 

If the industry is moving away now, this might as well mean that non-line base programs are soon going to be available on Mac as well.

You really should try listening to someone in the industry. So I've done a lot of Mac and Windows support in the education sector, tertiary (University/College) and general schools, and there is one thing that holds true, almost none of the teaching in engineering is done on Macs or Mac OS. People had Mac running Windows but all the software was Windows.

 

AutoDesk for a long time, and still does, has inferior support for Mac OS be it the software package doesn't work at all or for the ones that do are not equivalent to the Windows version. Then there are a whole bunch of other ones that just don't have a Mac OS version at all and still do not.

 

Some of the software is literally horribly written too, like VectorWorks. To properly silently install mass deploy VectorWorks to the 3x 30 engineering computer labs required a bunch of pissing around with registry modification change capturing because the silent install method doesn't (at the time) work correctly and do everything so we have to drop a reg import after install to make it work properly and actually do things like talk to the license server.

 

None of these are poor justifications, it's literally just how it is. Some, even big well known, CAD applications having Mac OS versions doesn't mean it's capable of supporting the industry at a paid and professional level.

 

Something many people seem to need to learn, fly by night analysis of another persons career and experience is or can be both annoying and rude. Know when to realize that you may not know better.

[Paul Thexton]

1 hour ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

but the M1 ultra GPU is not coming out looking good

Completely expected. I just don't get why Apple continually shoot themselves in the foot when talking about their GPU relative performance against PC hardware. It's really, really weird.

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

For a normal business, buying a 500$ Dell every other year seems to be the norm because "that's all you need". Then they do a *surprised pikachu face* when the awful laptop breaks, or fails to be good enough for more than 2 years. Or you can get a MacBook that will last at least 5 years, most likely 8 years or above.

Try buying a laptop of the same cost then 

 

Like w/e buy what anyone wants but having a bad experience on a 1/2 to 1/3 the cost device then proclaiming how much better a different and vastly more expensive device is is rather silly and just bad form.

 

Many small business don't need the much better management features of the Windows ecosystem so it makes next to no difference what OS they use and that's a good thing. Neither should any business not have some formal IT support agreement or internal support either and implementing basic measures to ensure very long term stability from Windows is not hard at all, the most basic being actually configure your Windows update settings off the default.

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, Paul Thexton said:

Completely expected. I just don't get why Apple continually shoot themselves in the foot when talking about their GPU relative performance against PC hardware. It's really, really weird.

All they need to do is refine their statement to classify a type of workload or usage, because it'll be true in the same applications and workloads it was for all the M1's before it, similarly not true in the same was as before too.

 

Doesn't really need a deep investigation, has been done already heh.

[Obioban]

12 minutes ago, leadeater said:

You really should try listening to someone in the industry. So I've done a lot of Mac and Windows support in the education sector, tertiary (University/College) and general schools, and there is one thing that holds true, almost none of the teaching in engineering is done on Macs or Mac OS. People had Mac running Windows but all the software was Windows.

 

AutoDesk for a long time, and still does, has inferior support for Mac OS be it the software package doesn't work at all or for the ones that do are not equivalent to the Windows version. Then there are a whole bunch of other ones that just don't have a Mac OS version at all and still do not.

 

Some of the software is literally horribly written too, like VectorWorks. To properly silently install mass deploy VectorWorks to the 3x 30 engineering computer labs required a bunch of pissing around with registry modification change capturing because the silent install method doesn't (at the time) work correctly and do everything so we have to drop a reg import after install to make it work properly and actually do things like talk to the license server.

 

None of these are poor justifications, it's literally just how it is. Some, even big well known, CAD applications having Mac OS versions doesn't mean it's capable of supporting the industry at a paid and professional level.

Sadly I agree. I'm stuck in windows for work, because my job is primarily in Solidworks.

 

... if they ever released a (competent) macOS version, I'd be lobbying IT hard.