You're setting up a distro for someone who's never owned a computer

[mamamia88]

What desktop do you start them with and what distro? I'm thinking of doing a side hustle for fun where I buy old computer gizmos and sell them to kids or people who can't afford the absolute greatest. Thinking like old dells with 4th gen i5s or higher 8-16gb of ram, and a 250gb ssd under $150. KDE is too convoluted,cinnamon is pretty good, gnome i'm not sure i would give a new user or maybe i would?  

[Poinkachu]

20 minutes ago, mamamia88 said:

What desktop do you start them with and what distro? I'm thinking of doing a side hustle for fun where I buy old computer gizmos and sell them to kids or people who can't afford the absolute greatest. Thinking like old dells with 4th gen i5s or higher 8-16gb of ram, and a 250gb ssd under $150. KDE is too convoluted,cinnamon is pretty good, gnome i'm not sure i would give a new user or maybe i would?  

I am not sure about the idea of giving linux to someone who never owned a computer.

 

Most likely after some frustating moments it will end up being replaced with windows (hopefully without me being thought of like I was scamming them). So if it's gonna end up like that, me, I'd probably just save myself some time and effort and sell it OSless. If I want to be kind I'd just tell them that I'll install the Windows for them if they come back later with the PC & a windows key.

Anyway, most kids probably gonna ask pretty much the same question : "Can it run fortnite/pubg/other popular games"

[SansVarnic]

20 minutes ago, mamamia88 said:

side hustle

Take care of your wording, you do know what a hustle is?

[Helpful Tech Witch]

1 minute ago, SansVarnic said:

Take care of your wording, you do know what a hustle is?

You know side hustle is commonly used to mean anything that can make money on the side right?

[SansVarnic]

4 hours ago, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

You know side hustle is commonly used to mean anything that can make money on the side right?

No, not really. Side hustle has always been exactly as its definition describes, this is the first time I have seen it used for something legitimate and not a swindle. 

Commonly the saying [at least in N. America], extra work on the side or making money on the side.

 

"Hustle: to sell something to or obtain something from (someone) by energetic and especially underhanded activity : SWINDLE"

 

Anyhow I've effectively [and unintentionally] derailed this topic.

[Nayr438]

4 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

No, not really. Side hustle has always been exactly as its definition describes, this is the first time I have seen it used for something legitimate and not a swindle. 

Commonly the saying [at least in N. America], extra work on the side or making money on the side.

 

"Hustle: to sell something to or obtain something from (someone) by energetic and especially underhanded activity : SWINDLE"

 

Anyhow I've effectively [and unintentionally] derailed this topic.

I live in N. America and I have only ever heard of it being used in this definition which aligns with your second line, https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/side-hustle

Quote

a piece of work or a job that you get paid for doing in addition to doing your main

 

As far as just "hustle", I have always associated it with the first definition here, https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/hustle

Quote

to make someone move quickly by pushing or pulling them along:

 

Usually when we refer to your listed definition, we just call it Swindling.

 

Back on topic.

 

I personally only Recommend GNOME (GTK) or KDE (QT) for a Desktop Environment, they don't rely on third party software to configure in a user friendly way and offer better integration. This is also where things like Wayland land first in terms of actual support.

From personal Experience, I have found that people who have only used Windows find KDE easier to use, though its configuration options can be confusing. GNOME however is great if you want something that stays out of the way and is more difficult to break, I however personally wouldn't use GNOME outside of Fedora Workstation or Arch Linux, every other Distro I have used modifies the environment in some way or ships mismatched versioned components, which can result in inconsistencies and breakage.

I usually recommend KDE Neon to new users, it's based on Ubuntu LTS and is managed by the KDE Team, it does however lack out of the box support for some things such as samba user shares, though that may not be a big deal for most users.

[cretsiah]

unless your going to create your own desktop look and style, it might depend more on the distro straight out of the box....

 

for instance i like the XFce version of linux mint ( cinnamon is nice too but to heavy for my needs havent tried mate) BUT i dont like say debian's version of xfce in terms of looks and style..

 

its also going to depend on whether you mean to try and make a real business out of it?? (really not keen on the word hustle or side hustle and swindling is worse )

 

for instance mint also has the option to set-up an OEM (or manufacture / retail sales ) type install.....

[David Chao]

I think Ubuntu can be useful

[mamamia88]

On 1/16/2022 at 7:15 PM, cretsiah said:

unless your going to create your own desktop look and style, it might depend more on the distro straight out of the box....

 

for instance i like the XFce version of linux mint ( cinnamon is nice too but to heavy for my needs havent tried mate) BUT i dont like say debian's version of xfce in terms of looks and style..

 

its also going to depend on whether you mean to try and make a real business out of it?? (really not keen on the word hustle or side hustle and swindling is worse )

 

for instance mint also has the option to set-up an OEM (or manufacture / retail sales ) type install.....

Just for fun. Keeping computers out of the dumpster. Maybe get like a stock pile of ssds from a bulk deal on AliExpress and turn them into something useful

[Alexeygridnev1993]

The config that you describe is by no means "obsolete". Two proper hyperthreaded  cores and 8 gigs of RAM is enough for any distro (even the latest Ubuntu with GNOME). I personally don't like GNOME aesthetically, but plain vanilla Ubuntu comes with a snap store, to painlessly install Chromium, Discord, Spotify, Zoom, Telegram and other things needed to start your basic computer usage. Even Steam should be painless. Also, Ubuntu is probably the most mainstream desktop Linux distro out there and not a "fork of a fork of a fork" which is barely maintained.

[maplepants]

I would not recommend Linux to someone whose never had a computer before. Especially for your sake, as you don't want to do that kind of support. Even experience computer users who are unused to the cli struggle with Linux, a first time computer user doesn't stand a chance.

 

The other wrinkle here is that you're basically trying to compete with the raspberry pi, both in your target market and target price. Obviously a 4th gen i5 absolutely crushes a Pi in terms of performance, but your target audience might not care.

 

A similar idea that might scratch the same itch would be to look into beginner computer courses at your community college. They're probably in need of both hardware and know how. You could help them with upkeep for their existing machines, teaching, or selling them new ones. Their budget might be small, but it could be a good stepping stone from these courses, to kitting out the home users, and then onto some small businesses. 

[Alexeygridnev1993]

1 hour ago, maplepants said:

 

I would not recommend Linux to someone whose never had a computer before. Especially for your sake, as you don't want to do that kind of support. Even experience computer users who are unused to the cli struggle with Linux, a first time computer user doesn't stand a chance

 

It might be actually easier to teach Linux to someone who has never owned a computer than an experienced Windows user. It’s easier to learn something completely new than to unlearn old habits.

[maplepants]

11 minutes ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

It might be actually easier to teach Linux to someone who has never owned a computer than an experienced Windows user. It’s easier to learn something completely new than to unlearn old habits.

I think the importance of the CLI on Linux is the big downside for new users. If you could operate a linux desktop and never touch the CLI I'd rate it the same as Windows; but you can't.

 

I'm actually old enough to have introduced new computer users to MS-DOS and Windows 3.1. In my personal experience, introducing first time users to a CLI is leagues harder than introducing them to a GUI. 

[PNWXPat]

+1 @maplepants-- sitting infront of a black screen with nothing but a blinking prompt is intimidating and not fun (we must be coevals)

 

I tried something similar years ago, with even older PCs and very little little success.  I would suggest just giving them a browser and a minimal install of something like antX with ICEWM -- which reminds many of the old WindowsOS interface -- would be enough of a beginning.

 

Another suggestion would be Manjaro Minimal LTS.

 

Don't put too much time into each PC and once the OS is set, use a cloning app -- time- and money-saving approach.  The poorer the kids, the more grateful they be, IME.

It's not a money-making proposition, unfortunately.

 

Good luck!

[MrXeno]

16 hours ago, maplepants said:

I think the importance of the CLI on Linux is the big downside for new users. If you could operate a linux desktop and never touch the CLI I'd rate it the same as Windows; but you can't.

 

I'm actually old enough to have introduced new computer users to MS-DOS and Windows 3.1. In my personal experience, introducing first time users to a CLI is leagues harder than introducing them to a GUI. 

So I have given Linux to my girlfriend which is a windows user and gave her ubuntu, which she found super easy to use (The KDE Version). The only thing I had to do was to enable nvidia's shitty drivers. Beside that she didn't have any issues using Kubuntu at all. She has never touched the CLI at any point and I haven't had to do any support for it at all. Everything just "works" out of the box. My experiance with Ubuntu is good but I am a linux user from the start. I first started using windows back in WIndows Vista (nightmares are coming back)

 

For you OP I would recommend either Linux Mint or Kubuntu as they have solid support for most hardware. If you are willing to pay for it I would say go with a Red Hat official version as that is rock solid 99% of the time. And yes I learned linux / unix BEFORE windows and I rarely touch the CLI now days. Only if I break something by modding something but that is my own fault lol

[Dat Guy]

On 1/16/2022 at 4:28 PM, mamamia88 said:

What desktop do you start them with and what distro?

A Mac, probably.

 

If it absolutely must be a free Unix-like system (why does that even matter?), I'd start with KDE. The distro is entirely irrelevant for that, but I'd probably prefer one without systemd.

[Alexeygridnev1993]

50 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

A Mac, probably.

 

If it absolutely must be a free Unix-like system (why does that even matter?), I'd start with KDE. The distro is entirely irrelevant for that, but I'd probably prefer one without systemd.

Systemd has been a standard for almost a decade now, love it or hate it. Which means that, if you choose a system without systemd, all the tutorials, Stackexchange replies etc. which assume the presence of systemd will be irrelevant for the user.

[TheProf]

Maybe you can start with lightweight distros, like Lubuntu, Ubuntu MATE, etc. Then figure out what would be the best DE to use with those distros, some fo the DEs that I can think of that might be light, include XFCE, LXQT, LXDE, etc.

 

There's also the familiarity factor to consider, if the folks are coming from Windows environment, they might be used to a specific workflow, maybe you might need to do some tweaking, etc.

 

Linux is definitely great for reusing older hardware and trying to make the older hardware feel fast compared to Windows, but for someone to stick to Linux, unless it is just lighweight work, like browsing, document creation, etc.. Linux is going to be a steep learning curve.

 

[Dat Guy]

50 minutes ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

all the tutorials, Stackexchange replies etc. which assume the presence of systemd will be irrelevant for the user.

The relevance of bad tutorials which only cover a subset of the most popular distributions is not relevant for this thread.

[Alexeygridnev1993]

52 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

The relevance of bad tutorials which only cover a subset of the most popular distributions is not relevant for this thread.

There are no popular distributions which use Init anymore. And the presence of tutorials is totally relevant for novice users who might need to troubleshoot their system. The more mainstream system you choose the better, for this reason alone.

[Dat Guy]

6 minutes ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

There are no popular distributions which use Init anymore.

List of popular distributions not using systemd by default:

• Slackware
• MX Linux
• Gentoo
• Void Linux
• Devuan
• Alpine Linux IIRC

[Alexeygridnev1993]

25 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

List of popular distributions not using systemd by default:

• Slackware
• MX Linux
• Gentoo
• Void Linux
• Devuan
• Alpine Linux IIRC

I.e. obscure and niche distros which are pretty much never used as desktop OSes (except Gentoo in a form of Chrome OS)

[Dat Guy]

15 minutes ago, Alexeygridnev1993 said:

I.e. obscure and niche distros which are pretty much never used as desktop OSes (except Gentoo in a form of Chrome OS)

Please check Distrowatch (the access ranking and the user rating) before talking about stuff you don’t know.

[Alexeygridnev1993]

46 minutes ago, Dat Guy said:

Please check Distrowatch (the access ranking and the user rating) before talking about stuff you don’t know.

Please check Steam hardware survey. That is as representative as one could get for desktop users specifically. You'll see that, among top-5 distros, there is none which would lack systemd.

 

https://linuxiac.com/linux-remains-above-1-on-the-steam-hardware-survey/

[Dat Guy]

Steam is not a mainstream component on Linux. It may well be that a certain niche does not use non-systemd distributions.