"Couple" questions about SSDs (life span and gaming, which better to buy, etc.)

[podkall]

So, when the SSD writes something on it, it's "wearing out", but when the data is already on the SSD, and it just reads the data that doesn't "wear" the SSD?

 

Does value TBW matter?

Does recording on SSD instead of HDD impact fps while playing games and reduce chance of stutters?

 

Are any of these SSDs bad or good? (or is there an alternative that's better/cheaper):

 

Kingston KC2500

Samsung SSD 980

Corsair Force MP510

 

And lastly I hearded some SSDs can get hot, is that because they are cheap/badly manufactured?

 

Thanks.

[Electronics Wizardy]

11 minutes ago, podkall said:

So, when the SSD writes something on it, it's "wearing out", but when the data is already on the SSD, and it just reads the data that doesn't "wear" the SSD?

 

Yup thats wright.

 

11 minutes ago, podkall said:

Does value TBW matter?

Not for normal use for things like gaming

 

11 minutes ago, podkall said:

Does recording on SSD instead of HDD impact fps while playing games and reduce chance of stutters?

 

Nope, game recording is super low data rate normally(less than 10mB/s normally) so it won't affect performance of lifespan.

 

11 minutes ago, podkall said:

And lastly I hearded some SSDs can get hot, is that because they are cheap/badly manufactured?

 

Nope, just a lot of processing going on, and that all makes heat

 

12 minutes ago, podkall said:

Are any of these SSDs bad or good? (or is there an alternative that's better/cheaper):

 

Kingston KC2500

Samsung SSD 980

Corsair Force MP510

Do you have other options? Id probalby go with the mp510 of all of those.

[mariushm]

Reading doesn't wear out the SSD.

Writing doesn't wear out the SSD.

ERASING wears out the SSD.

 

Imagine the memory chips inside the SSD arranged in 4 KB "pages" and then you have a lot of pages in a "block", let's say a 32 MB block (so 8192 pages of 4 KB)

The SSD controller can write data into a 4 KB page, but can not overwrite it.  That page can only be erased and made writable again by erasing the whole block of 32 MB.

 

If / When you want to overwrite it, the SSD controller takes the data in that page, makes the changes and writes the data in a random empty page in another block somewhere in the memory chips, and updates an internal table which says "data that was in block 123, page 10 is now in block 500, page 15"

It also makes a note saying "block 123 now has 1 more page that can eventually be erased"

 

When a block has a significant amount of pages that are marked as "can be erased", or when the SSD becomes nearly full and the controller has no other choice, the controller will decide to erase that block.  It will copy all the still valid pages from the block into other blocks, and erases the block, wearing it out a bit in the process. Now, all the pages in the block are put back into the "pool" of available pages to write data to. 

 

The memory chips support a limited amount of erases... SLC memory survived more than 10K erases, MLC memory chips did 4-6K, TLC does 1500-4000 erases,  QLC does 500-800 erases.

 

The SSD resorts to multiple tricks to reduce the amount of erases, like using a portion of the SSD's memory chips in pseudo-slc mode (for example they take 100 GB of unused TLC memory and make 30 GB of SLC cache out of it and incoming data gets written into this area and later, it's moved into memory chips that are in MLC or TLC mode or QLC mode.

 

SSDs are much better at reading and writing because they don't have to move read/write heads like mechanical drives do. So, read speeds shouldn't be affected significantly if the SSD is constantly writing data.

 

The memory chips actually don't mind being warm, they're not bothered. Doesn't matter if they're at 20c or 60c they'll hold the data just as well.  The SSD controller is usually warmer than the memory chips, and it's normal because it does a lot of things besides just retrieving data from memory chips and sending it to the computer.

The controllers usually can handle up to around 80-85c and normally shouldn't go over around 60 degrees.

 

Mechanical drives are more sensitive about heat, it's recommended to stay at around 40c

 

As for which drive out of those ... look at reviews, if there's an option to go for TLC or MLC instead of QLC, pick that. If one has higher TBW value or a longer warranty, it's a sign that manufacturer is more confident about their product, so maybe pick that.

Don't focus on just the raw speeds... even a SATA SSD with 550 MB/s read and 350-450 MB/s would be perfectly fine for loading games while saving video capture on it.

 

[Wooden Law - Black]

7 minutes ago, podkall said:

So, when the SSD writes something on it, it's "wearing out", but when the data is already on the SSD, and it just reads the data that doesn't "wear" the SSD?

No. Reads doesn't affect the flash as writes do, this because to do writes electrons move from the substrate to the floating gate (FG)/SiN (this for charge trap flash flash) while reads not.

Spoiler

14 minutes ago, podkall said:

Does value TBW matter?

Yes and no. I mean, it doesn't represent the drive's endurance as many people thinks but the warranty as writes.

18 minutes ago, podkall said:

Are any of these SSDs bad or good? (or is there an alternative that's better/cheaper):

KC2500 > MP510 > 980 IMHO but yes, all of them are good/decent. The 980 is DRAM-less, in fact it is worse as endurance than KC2500 and MP510.

20 minutes ago, podkall said:

And lastly I hearded some SSDs can get hot, is that because they are cheap/badly manufactured?

No, simply some components run hotter than others, in fact some SSDs run very hot (like the P5) while others not (like the XD80).

[Jurrunio]

26 minutes ago, podkall said:

So, when the SSD writes something on it, it's "wearing out", but when the data is already on the SSD, and it just reads the data that doesn't "wear" the SSD?

It's the act of clearing and emptying data from the cells that wears the SSD. Writes seem to wear the SSD only because SSDs are programmed to wipe the cells right before each write.

 

26 minutes ago, podkall said:

Does value TBW matter?

Yes if you can get near to that limit, but otherwise performance and temperatures matter more. After all they can deny your warranty if you exceed the TBW within the warranty period.

 

26 minutes ago, podkall said:

Does recording on SSD instead of HDD impact fps while playing games and reduce chance of stutters?

Not really unless the game actively uses the drive a lot instead of storing them into RAM. That could happen if you have low amounts of RAM or VRAM.

 

26 minutes ago, podkall said:

Are any of these SSDs bad or good? (or is there an alternative that's better/cheaper):

 

Kingston KC2500

Samsung SSD 980

Corsair Force MP510

MP510 is a premium TLC NVMe SSD, KC2500 is a budget TLC NVMe SSD, 980 is a budget (by the hardware and features offered) QLC NVMe SSD. They are not really competing against each other.

 

And about the temperature, it's not a manufacturing problem. Either they use inefficient designs to begin with, or it handles more operations per second (i.e. faster). Bad cooling design is another thing to blame, PCIe 4.0 SSDs often come with big heatsinks for this reason.

[Wooden Law - Black]

2 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Writing doesn't wear out the SSD.

To write a cell electrons have to move from substrate to floating gate/SiN and it’s an oxidation pass, which consumes the components anyway.

[Wooden Law - Black]

Just now, Jurrunio said:

MP510 is a premium TLC NVMe SSD, KC2500 is a budget TLC NVMe SSD, 980 is a budget (by the hardware and features offered) QLC NVMe SSD. They are not really competing against each other.

That's not true. The MP510 and KC2500 have similar peformance even though the hardware isn't the same (controller and flash are different) and the 980 isn't QLC, is a TLC DRAM-less.

[Jurrunio]

4 minutes ago, Wooden Law - Black said:

That's not true. The MP510 and KC2500 have similar peformance even though the hardware isn't the same (controller and flash are different) and the 980 isn't QLC, is a TLC DRAM-less.

Right, forgot MP510 had age disadvantage (back when SSDs are worse in general).

[wseaton]

SSDs don't get hot. The controller gets hot. The controller then radiates heat across the heat spreader given the assumption it's the entire unit.

 

Been awhile since I've seen a good SSD death watch video. Been meaning to put one of my favorite Intel or Kingston data center SSDs on my heavy write IO surveillance servers and see just how much abuse they can take vs consumer SSDs, but haven't got around to it. 

 

A vanilla 480GB SSD that's half is also going to have significant lifespan advantages over a 256 SSD that's 95% full.

[Blue4130]

37 minutes ago, wseaton said:

SSDs don't get hot. The controller gets hot. The controller then radiates heat across the heat spreader given the assumption it's the entire unit.

 

The controller is part of / on the ssd. SSDs do get hot. 

[ewitte]

Personally buying good drives I've only had 1 SSD failure before I've sold them out of about 30 (A 500GB Samsung 850 evo sata).  I've seen a few bad Kingstons out of the box at work.

[podkall]

23 minutes ago, ewitte said:

Personally buying good drives I've only had 1 SSD failure before I've sold them out of about 30 (A 500GB Samsung 850 evo sata).  I've seen a few bad Kingstons out of the box at work.

I see how that can happen, Kingstons are quite cheap for what performance they bring