Was this a bad time to buy a 3090 off the EVGA queue?

[Mark Kaine]

43 minutes ago, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

Like FF14 at 60fps and apex at 144fps

FF14 is a weird case, as far i can tell there's no framerate limit, but they actually tried to impose one several times (truly the worst developers lol)

 

when i played this game half a year ago there also was none, definitely got over 120fps... but overall it was sluggish,  especially in tonberry at the plaza or what it's called... barely 60fps...

 

 

 

likewise also MHW goes at least to 180, but believe it probably goes much higher, as ive been following  this closely and others have extensively studied this and a "framerate cap" never came up iirc.

 

 

 

this is mostly important for bowgunners, but if you aren’t playing bowgun you probably doing something wrong anyways  : D  

[Imglidinhere]

2 hours ago, Emertxe said:

A few days ago I randomly got a product notice for an EVGA rtx 3090 Kingpin I signed up for last June. I decided to jump on it to upgrade from my gtx 1080, which ended up being $2300 after tax/shipping

 

However, with stuff like the 3090 ti and 4000 series around the corner, I'm really second guessing actually using it as opposed to returning/selling. Sure, it would be a lot harder to get any other GPU, but I had already given up and was going to wait another year until I upgrade. However, I got a 1440p 270hz monitor, so I want to start pushing more frames in the games I play. I currently only hit ~200 fps in the esports titles I play on lowest, which feels like a really stupid reason to get an upgrade now (especially to an over-valued 3090), but it's certainly a big part of the reason.

 

Just wanted to get some opinions, should I just flip it and wait, or give up on new gpus and just use it? If I decide to use it, I'll probably be locked in for at least the next 5 years. No idea if I'll be kicking myself or not, especially since I already made it this long waiting.

 

What CPU are you running?

[Emertxe]

8 minutes ago, Imglidinhere said:

 

What CPU are you running?

8700k, I've been thinking about the jump to 12900k, but I might wait one more generation.

[Imglidinhere]

2 hours ago, Emertxe said:

8700k, I've been thinking about the jump to 12900k, but I might wait one more generation.

I'd honestly just wait. There's still skepticism regarding if Raptor Lake is going to be supported on LGA1700 at all, so... might not even bother if you ask me.

[Vishera]

8 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

FF14 is a weird case, as far i can tell there's no framerate limit, but they actually tried to impose one several times (truly the worst developers lol)

 

when i played this game half a year ago there also was none, definitely got over 120fps... but overall it was sluggish,  especially in tonberry at the plaza or what it's called... barely 60fps...

There is something wrong in how that game utilizes the CPU (bottlenecking both the CPU and GPU),hence the performance issues.

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, Vishera said:

There is something wrong in how that game utilizes the CPU (bottlenecking both the CPU and GPU),hence the performance issues.

Tbh a lot of even newer games have that issue,  mainly cpu bottlenecking, they'll use 3 or 4 cores, or less, and the rest of the cores (if there are any) lays dormant.

 

Something must be difficult about utilizing multi core architecture that devs have issues implementing it, ideally it should just be a switch in the API or something (speculating here of course)

 

Also additionally there seems to be a correlation between network lag and framerate,  that doesn't have to be like that... ironically Monster Hunter World doesn't do that, extensively at least,  there may be network lag, but the framerate stays solid (at 60 for example) 

[Vishera]

17 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Tbh a lot of even newer games have that issue,  mainly cpu bottlenecking, they'll use 3 or 4 cores, or less, and the rest of the cores (if there are any) lays dormant.

I was talking about too many draw calls,and not the number of cores that are being utilized.

When you have too many draw calls you can't utilize CPU cores to their full potential and have weird performance issues.

The source of the issue is bad code.

17 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Something must be difficult about utilizing multi core architecture that devs have issues implementing it, ideally it should just be a switch in the API or something (speculating here of course)

It all depends on the engine,most game devs don't have the skill or the tools to fix such things in the engines they are using.

Every engine handles cores differently,some are hard coded to use just 4 threads,some are hard coded to use 12 or 16 threads.

But the best ones are those that dynamically utilize the CPU,meaning they can utilize all of the cores if they need to.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

11 hours ago, Emertxe said:

Apex is actually technically limited at 190fps, since apparently there's some terrible micro stuttering past that point even though the 3090 can push the mid 200s.

From what I found it was 144 at some point so idk.

but it’s semantics anyways

[Mark Kaine]

Btw, did this thread go from 

"guys i think i made a mistake?"

to

"guys i think I'll just buy a kingpin card instead yolo!"

 

or am i imaging things? ; D

 

 

[Emertxe]

3 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Btw, did this thread go from 

"guys i think i made a mistake?"

to

"guys i think I'll just buy a kingpin card instead yolo!"

 

or am i imaging things? ; D

 

 

Well, it was a Kingpin card from the beginning. Not like I have a choice of anything else for a 3090 lol

[Emertxe]

15 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

Something must be difficult about utilizing multi core architecture that devs have issues implementing it, ideally it should just be a switch in the API or something (speculating here of course)

I don't have direct experience working with it, but parallization can be pretty tricky to work with. Don't forget, anything that runs in parallel still needs a way to delegate what to process where, and it needs to combine it back in the end, which in itself takes processing overhead time. That, and you can start to run risks of race conditions and pointer conflicts if it's not perfectly handled. I don't know what popular engines like Unity and Unreal provide, but implementing asynchronous processing may not always be beneficial, especially when trying to make everything run in real-time video games.

[aisle9]

On 1/12/2022 at 5:57 PM, Emertxe said:

 

I realize the 3090 was always going to take the biggest hit in getting screwed with generational leaps, which is partly why I'm second guessing getting one this far in the generation.

If you bought a Kingpin, flip it. If not, up to you. How badly do you want that upgrade?

 

On 1/12/2022 at 5:59 PM, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

not for some people.

most can tell the diference from like 144 to 170 and to 240.

ive never seen a engine limit fps that low.

ive seen like a limit of over 300 on most.

any games you can prove do that?

bUt ThE hUmAn eYe OnLy SeEs 24 FpS!!!!!!!!11

[Emertxe]

1 hour ago, aisle9 said:

If you bought a Kingpin, flip it. If not, up to you. How badly do you want that upgrade?

What makes you say that for the Kingpin? While I wouldn't normally buy a Kingpin, I'd appreciate the OCability and binning. Although, the biggest reason is that the other high end cards aren't available.

[jones177]

2 hours ago, Emertxe said:

Well, it was a Kingpin card from the beginning. Not like I have a choice of anything else for a 3090 lol

I was going for a Kingpin but it never came up.

A FTW3 Ultra 3080 ti did and the hybrid version. I bought the air cooled FTW3 but not the hybrid since I already had 3 3080 tis. 

I did get a MSI Gaming X Trio 3090 and it was $2,249, so a bit more than the Kingpin for a bit less. It is in a productivity build so not a big deal.

 

As for selling. I sold off my 10 series just before the holidays and the GTX 1080s were the best sellers. I thought it would be the 1080 tis but they got far less bids.  It is an option if you don't want to keep the 1080 as a spare.