Was this a bad time to buy a 3090 off the EVGA queue?

[Emertxe]

A few days ago I randomly got a product notice for an EVGA rtx 3090 Kingpin I signed up for last June. I decided to jump on it to upgrade from my gtx 1080, which ended up being $2300 after tax/shipping

 

However, with stuff like the 3090 ti and 4000 series around the corner, I'm really second guessing actually using it as opposed to returning/selling. Sure, it would be a lot harder to get any other GPU, but I had already given up and was going to wait another year until I upgrade. However, I got a 1440p 270hz monitor, so I want to start pushing more frames in the games I play. I currently only hit ~200 fps in the esports titles I play on lowest, which feels like a really stupid reason to get an upgrade now (especially to an over-valued 3090), but it's certainly a big part of the reason.

 

Just wanted to get some opinions, should I just flip it and wait, or give up on new gpus and just use it? If I decide to use it, I'll probably be locked in for at least the next 5 years. No idea if I'll be kicking myself or not, especially since I already made it this long waiting.

[jaslion]

The difference between 144hz and higher is already hardly distinguishable so pushing higher you pretty much wont even notice it happening.

 

Then for AAA games and the like most can't even go above 144fps because they weren't made to do that. Some don't even get that high without hitting their internal limit. Not due to lack of hardware but because the game just can't do it.

 

Are you happy with your current card? If yes keep it if not move on.

 

Either way the 3090 was ALWAYS going to be the card that would lose it's value the fastest because you were paying over double the price of the 1 step down card at launch for a 10% boost in performance. Pretty much like how every titan card has been in the past.

 

Also what esports titles are only hitting 200fps? I go above that in games like fortnite, csgo, rocket league,... at 1440p with a vega 64 if I lower my settings and you have a pretty much identical performance card.

 

As an edit. You will get the card anyway so might as well try it out.

[Emertxe]

3 minutes ago, jaslion said:

The difference between 144hz and higher is already hardly distinguishable so pushing higher you pretty much wont even notice it happening.

 

Then for AAA games and the like most can't even go above 144fps because they weren't made to do that. Some don't even get that high without hitting their internal limit. Not due to lack of hardware but because the game just can't do it.

 

Are you happy with your current card? If yes keep it if not move on.

 

Either way the 3090 was ALWAYS going to be the card that would lose it's value the fastest because you were paying over double the price of the 1 step down card at launch for a 10% boost in performance. Pretty much like how every titan card has been in the past.

 

Also what esports titles are only hitting 200fps? I go above that in games like fortnite, csgo, rocket league,... at 1440p with a vega 64 if I lower my settings and you have a pretty much identical performance card.

 

I realize the 3090 was always going to take the biggest hit in getting screwed with generational leaps, which is partly why I'm second guessing getting one this far in the generation.

 

I'm fine with not hitting 270hz on AAA games, but I only get 70-90 fps on those types of games currently, even on lowest. Ideally, I'd like to turn a few settings up (not max) while still being in the 120-150+ FPS range.

 

For esports titles, I get ~250 in CS:GO, ~200 in Valorant, and ~90 in Apex, if that one counts. I'm currently on an 8700k, waiting maybe another gen or so before a full system rebuild.

 

I wouldn't say I'm happy with my current card's performance, but it's been good enough that I haven't actively tried to get my hands on a 30 series card. However, that EVGA queue notification dangled a carrot in front of me, so I don't actually know if I can easily go back to waiting another year with the excuse of gpu unavailability. I mean I could, but mentally it would kinda suck waiting again.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

11 minutes ago, jaslion said:

The difference between 144hz and higher is already hardly distinguishable so pushing higher you pretty much wont even notice it happening.

 

not for some people.

most can tell the diference from like 144 to 170 and to 240.

12 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Then for AAA games and the like most can't even go above 144fps because they weren't made to do that. Some don't even get that high without hitting their internal limit. Not due to lack of hardware but because the game just can't do it.

ive never seen a engine limit fps that low.

ive seen like a limit of over 300 on most.

any games you can prove do that?

[jaslion]

1 minute ago, Emertxe said:

 

I realize the 3090 was always going to take the biggest hit in getting screwed with generational leaps, which is partly why I'm second guessing getting one this far in the generation.

 

I'm fine with not hitting 270hz on AAA games, but I only get 70-90 fps on those types of games currently, even on lowest. Ideally, I'd like to turn a few settings up (not max) while still being in the 120-150+ FPS range.

 

For esports titles, I get ~250 in CS:GO, ~200 in Valorant, and ~90 in Apex, if that one counts. I'm currently on an 8700k, waiting maybe another gen or so before a full system rebuild.

 

I wouldn't say I'm happy with my current card's performance, but it's been good enough that I haven't actively tried to get my hands on a 30 series card. However, that EVGA queue notification dangled a carrot in front of me, so I don't actually know if I can easily go back to waiting another year with the excuse of gpu unavailability. I mean I could, but mentally it would kinda suck waiting again.

Either way you bought a fast value losing item that is something known here so lets leave that for now.

 

Cs:go and valorant are a bit low I got more on my 2700x (even more now on my 3900x). Apex yeah good luck getting that game higher :p.

 

You can try it out and see how you like it. Either way that card currently flies so if you aren't satisfied the next day it's basically gone once you list it usually.

 

[jaslion]

3 minutes ago, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

not for some people.

most can tell the diference from like 144 to 170 and to 240.

ive never seen a engine limit fps that low.

ive seen like a limit of over 300 on most.

any games you can prove do that?

Well my steam library is surprisingly a good example of this

 

Dishonored 2

Read dead redemption 2

Deathloop

Monster hunter world

Final fantasy 14

Apex legends

 

Some others

The cod game of recent (they went from barely going 130 average to finally getting around 160 and then 180)

The new battlefield

 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

6 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Well my steam library is surprisingly a good example of this

 

Dishonored 2

Read dead redemption 2

Deathloop

Monster hunter world

Final fantasy 14

Apex legends

 

Some others

The cod game of recent (they went from barely going 130 average to finally getting around 160 and then 180)

The new battlefield

 

id argue against calling Apex a "AAA" game but other than that thats interesting, ive really never heard of hard fps caps in games that were that new. 

[jaslion]

Just now, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

id argue against calling Apex a "AAA" game but other than that thats interesting, ive really never heard of hard fps caps in games that were that new. 

They aren't hard caps. I don't think I explained it well enough. More like their engine or the way they are coded makes it so that they just cannot execute faster and reach a internal "cap" (it's not a cap just a point they can't really push much beyond).

 

You can see this on a hardware level too where not a single core is maxed out and the gpu isn't being fully used yet the fps just doesn't go up anymore.

[Mark Kaine]

its always a bad time because it's only like a couple % faster in games than a 3080 and therefore not really a gaming card.

 

So no, now or earlier or later,  the value stays about as bad.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Emertxe said:

this far in the generation

its only just been 1 year?

 

 

41 minutes ago, Emertxe said:

should I just flip it

as fast you can ... probably can even make a profit  

 

but why wait? get a 3080, you had a 1080ti for so long, apparently, a 3080 or even a 3070 will be a great card many years to come, the truth is most games dont really max them out, especially not the 3080, and if then its likely due to terrible optimization rather than graphical features.

 

 

[Emertxe]

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

its always a bad time because it's only like a couple % faster in games than a 3080 and therefore not really a gaming card.

 

So no, now or earlier or later,  the value stays about as bad.

 

 

its only just been 1 year?

 

 

as fast you can ... probably can even make a profit  

 

but why wait? get a 3080, you had a 1080ti for so long, apparently, a 3080 or even a 3070 will be a great card many years to come, the truth is most games dont really max them out, especially not the 3080, and if then its likely due to terrible optimization rather than graphical features.

 

 

 

Just a regular 1080 mind you, but yeah you've got a point. If GPUs were available at msrp I'd probably shoot for a 3080 ti, but since they're not, I went for the opportunity I had. I'd also chose to flip it if I could guarantee a better value replacement, but that not being a real option is stopping me. Even if I flipped it and bought a scalped 3080 ti card, that kinda throws the value argument out the window.

 

[Mark Kaine]

30 minutes ago, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

ive never seen a engine limit fps that low.

me neither,  i think these "limits" are probably mostly cpu bottleneck,  which many underestimate. 

 

22 minutes ago, jaslion said:

Monster hunter world

not sure i understand,  are you saying there's a limit thats not cpu bound? if yes, what would that limit be?

 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

me neither,  i think these "limits" are probably mostly cpu bottleneck,  which many underestimate. 

 

not sure i understand,  are you saying there's a limit thats not cpu bound? if yes, what would that limit be?

 

no, from what he described not the case.

15 minutes ago, jaslion said:

They aren't hard caps. I don't think I explained it well enough. More like their engine or the way they are coded makes it so that they just cannot execute faster and reach a internal "cap" (it's not a cap just a point they can't really push much beyond).

 

You can see this on a hardware level too where not a single core is maxed out and the gpu isn't being fully used yet the fps just doesn't go up anymore.

you just described a hard cap...

[Vishera]

1 hour ago, Emertxe said:

EVGA rtx 3090 Kingpin

Kingpin cards are a lot more expensive than other EVGA 3090 cards,

After all those cards are designed for LN2 overclocking,or any other extreme overclocking stuff.

It's overkill for gaming,but if you want to get into extreme overclocking this is an excellent card for that.

[Mark Kaine]

6 minutes ago, Emertxe said:

Just a regular 1080 mind you, but yeah you've got a point

ah i misread, i thought 1080ti, but thats even a bigger jump to a 3080 *non ti* because the ti is also bad value = )

 

and why care about "msrp"? thats likely not gonna happen,  a 3080 would still be the best "value" card or arguably even a 3070... but since you wanna go high, a 3080 makes more sense i guess.

 

10 minutes ago, Emertxe said:

Even if I flipped it and bought a scalped 3080 ti card, that kinda throws the value argument out the window.

not really both are much cheaper and about similar performance,  thats kinda the point,  a 3090 is never gonna be good value, unless you can flip it or "mine".

 

it's not like the 1080ti, which was actually great value, now its 3060ti, 3070/ti and 3080... the rest is just fluff from nvidia to milk the unaware,  tbh lol.

 

 

 

 

[Vishera]

7 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

a 3090 is never gonna be good value

Not if it's a Kingpin card and you are an overclocker like me!

Those measurement points are so accessible,and the 3 BIOS chips...!

Look at those VRMs!:

[Mark Kaine]

11 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Kingpin

yeah, i know king pin cards are good, but thats obviously not a regular gaming card... you need really a killer rig, probably the best cpu too, and even then its not gonna be really noticeable in games, its really mostly just for ln2 / overclocking = )

 

ps: is he still #1 in 3DMark with 4 1080tis? that gave me a good laugh tbh : D

[Vishera]

5 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

but thats obviously not a regular gaming card...

It's more accurate to say that it's not a gaming card,but an extreme overclocking card that is capable of gaming

5 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

you need really a killer rig, probably the best cpu too

It depends on what benchmarks you use,

There are benchmarks where the CPU won't affect your score,and that's how i got a few GPU world records on a mere Ryzen 5 2600.

5 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

and even then its not gonna be really noticeable in games

It depends on how far you overclock your GPU,and the temperature of the GPU.

The huge overclock i did on my GTX 1660 is very noticeable,but with a 3090 Kingpin you are at risk of bottlenecking it.

9 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

its really mostly just for ln2 / overclocking = )

True

[Emertxe]

8 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Not if it's a Kingpin card and you are an overclocker like me!

Those measurement points are so accessible,and the 3 BIOS chips...!

Look at those VRMs!:

 

Honestly since I'm presented with the opportunity, I'll likely be jumping on the OC train. Probably nothing crazy though, but it'll be nice to not be on the losing end of the silicon lottery for once (assuming Kingpin is binned). I've lost every time in all my last attempts (i7 3770k, i7 8700k, gtx 670, and gtx 1080 have all been on the bad end of the lottery)

 

[Vishera]

7 minutes ago, Emertxe said:

Probably nothing crazy though

That's a waste in my opinion,i had hook a chiller to it or do dry ice if i were to have one

7 minutes ago, Emertxe said:

but it'll be nice to not be on the losing end of the silicon lottery for once (assuming Kingpin is binned)

It is binned

[Mark Kaine]

27 minutes ago, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

you just described a hard cap.

pretty sure most games have this? i call it engine limit, however thats usually really high... already posted this several times, but i still find it funny,  nothing maxed out, yet there's a "hard cap" at like 620fps or so, mostly hovering around 600... also my poor cpu, only being used on 1 core lol...

 

 

And nope, there's like zero "input lag advantage" on my 60hz screen,  in fact it feels kinda more sluggish than say 120fps locked.

 

(its Tomb Raider "Anniversary" )

 

[Vishera]

10 minutes ago, Emertxe said:

 

Honestly since I'm presented with the opportunity, I'll likely be jumping on the OC train. Probably nothing crazy though, but it'll be nice to not be on the losing end of the silicon lottery for once (assuming Kingpin is binned). I've lost every time in all my last attempts (i7 3770k, i7 8700k, gtx 670, and gtx 1080 have all been on the bad end of the lottery)

 

Oh,and what power supply you have?,

You gonna need a beefy one for that card.

[Mark Kaine]

3 minutes ago, Vishera said:

It is binned

by the man himself! (probably,  actually) 

 

14 minutes ago, Vishera said:

It depends on what benchmarks you use,

There are benchmarks where the CPU won't affect your score,and that's how i got a few GPU world records on a mere Ryzen 5 2600

nah, we're doing port royale or go home : 3

 

 

 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

6 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

pretty sure most games have this? i call it engine limit, however thats usually really high... already posted this several times, but i still find it funny,  nothing maxed out, yet there's a "hard cap" at like 620fps or so, mostly hovering around 600... also my poor cpu, only being used on 1 core lol...

 

 

And nope, there's like zero "input lag advantage" on my 60hz screen,  in fact it feels kinda more sluggish than say 120fps locked.

 

(its Tomb Raider "Anniversary" )

 

i mean yea, but hes talking about low engien limit games.

Like FF14 at 60fps and apex at 144fps

[Emertxe]

6 minutes ago, Vishera said:

Oh,and what power supply you have?,

You gonna need a beefy one for that card.

I picked up a Corsair HX 1000w Platinum. Current psu is a 650w, so I needed the upgrade anyways.

 

[Emertxe]

Just now, Helpful Tech Wiard said:

i mean yea, but hes talking about low engien limit games.

Like FF14 at 60fps and apex at 144fps

Apex is actually technically limited at 190fps, since apparently there's some terrible micro stuttering past that point even though the 3090 can push the mid 200s.