AirTags are being used by organised crime groups to track luxury cars in Canada

[StDragon]

28 minutes ago, poochyena said:

but why track the car? Why not just go to the home to begin with? I can pull up zillow right now to find out where the million dollar homes are in my city. I don't have to elaborately track any cars. This only makes sense if you are looking for a VERY specific car or person, and not just stealing whatever expensive car you find.

Thieves do try and avoid confrontation when stealing. Many will profile a home and the people inside it so as to know when an opportune time to break in. Tracking a vehicle gives these thieves a data-point. It can also assist them when to break into that vehicle as well.

 

Don't you know that you should never blab about when you're going on vacation on social media? Thieves and gangs look for that.

[poochyena]

53 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Tracking a vehicle gives these thieves a data-point. It can also assist them when to break into that vehicle as well.

explain how that data point assists them in breaking into a vehicle.

54 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Don't you know that you should never blab about when you're going on vacation on social media? Thieves and gangs look for that.

which has absolutely 0 connection to airtags.

[DANK_AS_gay]

12 hours ago, FakeKGB said:

It’s literally letting you track other

people’s stuff, and even if it’s configured to only report if stuff is nearby, that’s:

1. Only for iPhones

2. What’s to stop people from finding a way to read specific location data instead of just proximity, as unless Apple has proximity sensors on the AirTags they’re probably using location data to find how close an object is.

It uses bluetooth, not GPS. The effective range isn't going to be much more than 20ft anyways. Plus this is on the car companies for having such weak security on a luxury product. I get why it could be an issue, but the benefits outweigh the drawbacks. Plus maybe these cars could send data out that it is a specific person's car, and the AirTag would not allow you to use it near that person's car. Maybe an issue for Uber or friends cars, but friends just tell you if you left stuff, and Uber drivers usually do as well (so long as it is actually worth something)

[wanderingfool2]

4 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Doesn't the airtag system have an anti-stalking feature exactly for this? If an Airtag is following you along that isn't yours, it will a) sound an alarm (can easily be disabled) and b) inform the corresponding phone. Now of course this only works on iphone, but what are the chances owners of high-end cars having an iphone?

 

There you go:

That really is annoying for the use case as an anti-theft device. I wanted to hide a few in/around my bike. But if it ever gets stolen and the thief has an iphone I am straight out of luck.

this may not necessarily apply in this case...since if you put it in like the wheel well the metal might make it so that it's not detected as well (could be wrong).  I know wifi devices can drop significantly while just entering some vehicles *vehicle dependent*  Since people also walk away from their car, I wonder if it would keep resetting the amount of time.

 

1 hour ago, poochyena said:

A 4 pack is $100. Thats a lot of money tracking a lot of cars just for the small odds one might be parked in a low populated area.
If you are tracking cars to their house.. why not just drive around neighborhoods looking for car? Plenty of cars are parked outside, not in a locked garage. You could even look on google maps street view. I don't understand the advantage of tracking a car to a certain location. Why not just camp out in that location to begin with and wait for a car to show up?

A 4 pack for $100 is not a lot of money for criminals stealing vehicles...especially when you consider that you are able to recover the AirTags.  It's also very likely a vehicle will end up in an area that is less busy through-out the course of a day [and if not, you could just go and recover the AirTag].  It's minimal effort for quite a bit higher reward for the thieves.

 

Or another scenario, they plant it on like 4 different higher ticket cars.  They wait until night (and now they know the locations, which is easier than having to drive around searching for high-end vehicles among blocks of houses).  From there it's a key spoof technique, and you've got it...or if they've parked it in a garage you know that the vehicle actually is inside (which you wouldn't know there is a highend vehicle in the garage otherwise)

[StDragon]

17 minutes ago, poochyena said:

explain how that data point assists them in breaking into a vehicle.

Because depending on where, and when the vehicle was parked, it could be an opportune time to break into it. Or, if the car was parked at a place of work (routine), they could know when to break into the home; which would also be known from daily routine.

 

17 minutes ago, poochyena said:

which has absolutely 0 connection to airtags.

I point that out to illustrate that some criminals are a lot smarter than you give them credit for. Most are dumb, but some are cunning.

[poochyena]

13 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

(and now they know the locations, which is easier than having to drive around searching for high-end vehicles among blocks of houses).

I just can't comprehend how its easier to search for a high end car through a parking lot and then tracking it back to the owner's house, than to just go to zillow and look for expensive neighborhoods. 2nd option saves you the time and cost of adding a tracker to a car. Its not like its some big mystery to which neighborhoods expensive cars are parked at.

 

10 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Because depending on where, and when the vehicle was parked, it could be an opportune time to break into it. Or, if the car was parked at a place of work (routine), they could know when to break into the home; which would also be known from daily routine.

uhh, why not save $25 and the risk of additional jail time and just look in the driveway to see if the car is still there or not?

11 minutes ago, StDragon said:

I point that out to illustrate that some criminals are a lot smarter than you give them credit for. Most are dumb, but some are cunning.

using airtags is a dumb idea, so how is that possibly related?

[RejZoR]

2 hours ago, Dracarris said:

Which is why Apple has built in an anti-stalking protection, as I pointed out above but no one seems to care here, so far.

 

Also, GPS trackers have been around since forever and ofc also been abused. But now that the devices in question have a fruit logo on it, ofc everyone and their dog goes haywire. Same story literally every time.

Which means nothing if you use Android or if whatever thresholds don't decide you're being tracked.

[Dracarris]

3 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Which means nothing if you use Android or if whatever thresholds don't decide you're being tracked.

Regular Trackers: 0 chance of being notified.

Airtags: Chance of being notified = chance of owner of fancy car owning an iphone (or any passenger).

 

I don't know how much clearer I can make this.

[wanderingfool2]

15 minutes ago, poochyena said:

I just can't comprehend how its easier to search for a high end car through a parking lot and then tracking it back to the owner's house, than to just go to zillow and look for expensive neighborhoods. 2nd option saves you the time and cost of adding a tracker to a car. Its not like its some big mystery to which neighborhoods expensive cars are parked at.

 

uhh, why not save $25 and the risk of additional jail time and just look in the driveway to see if the car is still there or not?

using airtags is a dumb idea, so how is that possibly related?

Expensive neighbourhoods also tend to also have expensive security cameras.  They can target vehicles like BMW's, luxury Lexus vehicles etc...ones that are still luxury and easy to sell and yet are spread out amongst neighbourhoods.

 

The simple fact is, this approach likely saves them time and lowers the risk of being caught...just because you can't think of the logistics and how it's beneficial does not make it a dumb idea.  There are multiple people who have now tried to explain it to you how it can be used to improve crime, and given a criminal syndicate is using this approach kind of proves us right.

 

Thieves like this rarely are caring about "oh this might add a touch more to the sentence"...because I really doubt that they would get too much extra time for putting on a tracker to steal a vehicle vs tailing someone to steal it (or finding vehicles at random)

[StDragon]

24 minutes ago, poochyena said:

uhh, why not save $25 and the risk of additional jail time and just look in the driveway to see if the car is still there or not?

Because some criminals would prefer to spend 30 minutes or more to rummage through all of a persons possessions at their domicile. Knowing when the home owner or other family members are away from the home helps them scope the time of availability.

 

Where I live, there's been reported break-ins of the Indian community. These immigrants have been known to possess a rather large sum of real gold jewelry. And that's just one of many examples that get reported on Nextdoor.com by other community members.

 

Frankly, you must be either very young, or naïve. There's a lot of bad people in this world that make horrible life decisions, yet still embark on such behaviors; and will not stop until arrested.

[poochyena]

24 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

The simple fact is, this approach likely saves them time and lowers the risk of being caught...just because you can't think of the logistics and how it's beneficial does not make it a dumb idea.

Right. Its the fact no one else in this thread can explain those logistics is what makes it a dumb idea. None of the explainations thus far as explained how its BETTER than alternatives.

28 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

They can target vehicles like BMW's, luxury Lexus vehicles etc...ones that are still luxury and easy to sell and yet are spread out amongst neighbourhoods.

As they can without airtags

24 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Because some criminals would prefer to spend 30 minutes or more to rummage through all of a persons possessions at their domicile. Knowing when the home owner or other family members are away from the home helps them scope the time of availability.

How do these two sentences have any connection to airtags? Airtags do not tell you whether someone is home or not any more than looking at the person's driveway.

25 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Where I live, there's been reported break-ins of the Indian community. These immigrants have been known to possess a rather large sum of real gold jewelry. And that's just one of many examples that get reported on Nextdoor.com by other community members.

again, connection to airtags is????

25 minutes ago, StDragon said:

Frankly, you must be either very young, or naïve. There's a lot of bad people in this world that make horrible life decisions, yet still embark on such behaviors; and will not stop until arrested.

connection to airtags is??????????????

[Thaldor]

50 minutes ago, poochyena said:

I just can't comprehend how its easier to search for a high end car through a parking lot and then tracking it back to the owner's house, than to just go to zillow and look for expensive neighborhoods. 2nd option saves you the time and cost of adding a tracker to a car. Its not like its some big mystery to which neighborhoods expensive cars are parked at.

Does it tell how far away the rich person is from their home? Also just that it is very suspicious when there's car parked close to your home for couple days with people sitting in there trying to figure out your movements and habits to determine possible moment to make the strike (with AirTag in your car, they can just determine you are half an hour away from home and make the strike).

 

Quote

uhh, why not save $25 and the risk of additional jail time and just look in the driveway to see if the car is still there or not?

You know if you are already going to be sentenced for multiple years for break-ins and probably other things, would you care if you got couple more with a possibility to get more loot and make your "job" easier? Or more like consider this: If you are going to get 10 million (or just some other extremely huge sum that fits this example) fines that you know you cannot ever pay and whatever you do majority of the money you ever make will be taken to pay that off, while doing the crime would you care if those fines were even higher if you have the possibility to make more with the crime if you don't get caught? You will never be able to pay those fines, no matter what, they would be just so high it would be the same do you ever work or don't because everything would be taken to pay those fines, would you care if those fines were even higher?

[StDragon]

29 minutes ago, poochyena said:

again, connection to airtags is????

 

connection to airtags is??????????????

 

Have you ever used an Airtag? Once one is registered to you, can track where it is.

 

Let's say a criminal places an AirTag under the fender, bumper, whatnot. As it's parked, people's iPhones will walk past it and report back to Apple its last known location based on that persons iPhone GPS location. The person walking by with the iPhone doesn't know an AirTag is there as it's acting as a relay agent as part of the hive collective. I'm sure probabilistically my iPhone have relayed dozens of other peoples AirTags back to Apple and I would never have known about it; by design.

 

So, the problem isn't the AirTag when you get down to it. The problem that's so controversial is that like any tool, it can be abused. And based on the prior link I've posted, Apple will be making the usage of this tool more transparent so people aren't being stalked.

[poochyena]

26 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

Does it tell how far away the rich person is from their home?

Now THAT is actually useful. Using it to give an indication how long you have until the owner drives back home.

27 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

Also just that it is very suspicious when there's car parked close to your home for couple days with people sitting in there trying to figure out your movements and habits to determine possible moment to make the strike (with AirTag in your car, they can just determine you are half an hour away from home and make the strike).

You don't need to park, just drive by every so often.

3 minutes ago, StDragon said:

 

Have you ever used an Airtag? Once one is registered to you, can track where it is.

 

Let's say a criminal places an AirTag under the fender, bumper, whatnot. As it's parked, people iPhones will walk past it and report back to Apple it's last known location based on that persons iPhone GPS location. The person walking by with the iPhone doesn't know an AirTag is there as it's acting as a relay agent as part of the hive collective. I'm sure probabilistically my iPhone have relayed dozens of other peoples AirTags back to Apple and I would never have known about it; by design.

 

So, the problem isn't the AirTag when you get down to it. The problem that's so controversial is that like any tool, and can be abused. And based on the prior link I've posted, Apple will be making the usage of this tool more transparent so people aren't being stalked.

Are you lost? This entire thread is about it being used to steal cars. Your past few comments have made no reference to the actual discussion.

[StDragon]

Just now, poochyena said:

Are you lost? This entire thread is about it being used to steal cars. Your past few comments have made no reference to the actual discussion.

W. T. actual F?!!!  You've read my posts. Yet, haven't comprehended a single thing.

 

• I've talked about AirTags in how they can be abused overall.
• I've talked about how AirTags work.
• I've talked about the motive for using them
• I've talked about how they aid the criminals to carry out their motives.

What else is missing from this discussion that you're expecting?

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, Dracarris said:

Regular Trackers: 0 chance of being notified.

Airtags: Chance of being notified = chance of owner of fancy car owning an iphone (or any passenger).

 

I don't know how much clearer I can make this.

Chance of treshold to be notified being reached, "entirely unknown" or might not even work properly at the moment because it has been out for just 2 months. How much clearer can I be?

[Helpful Tech Witch]

15 hours ago, FakeKGB said:

That's really stupid. I hope I don't need to explain why.

Id assume its really close range, so you can detect it like if its within your car?

[Joduko]

Sounds like mostly a rich people problem.

[wanderingfool2]

3 hours ago, Joduko said:

Sounds like mostly a rich people problem.

All theft eventually boils down to the regular consumer.  Also, things like minivans etc are targeted as well because they often have a high resale value

[SiRcivic27]

I read this article and something came to mind. When I travel I now put an Airtag in any of my checked luggage. How long does an Airtag have to be following someone before their phone gives the warning? Because if its only a few minutes I'm sure the baggage handlers at airports are already tired of airtags. 

[StDragon]

27 minutes ago, wanderingfool2 said:

All theft eventually boils down to the regular consumer.  Also, things like minivans etc are targeted as well because they often have a high resale value

One of the biggest theft item is the catalytic converter where it's hacked off in minutes or less. It's then sold as scrap for the value of the platinum metals. Ostensibly there's been talks or laws created for a chain of custody to prevent recyclers from buying these, but these thieves could very well be selling them to someone that will just ship overseas for processing.

 

It's so bad, that many dealers have been offering anti-theft plates and other forms of shielding to hobble the efforts of would-be thieves.

[Beerzerker]

6 hours ago, StDragon said:

One of the biggest theft item is the catalytic converter where it's hacked off in minutes or less. It's then sold as scrap for the value of the platinum metals. Ostensibly there's been talks or laws created for a chain of custody to prevent recyclers from buying these, but these thieves could very well be selling them to someone that will just ship overseas for processing.

 

It's so bad, that many dealers have been offering anti-theft plates and other forms of shielding to hobble the efforts of would-be thieves.

About the same deal as how copper thieves move what they steal, they find a buyer that pays in cash and this buyer has no problem reselling it themselves.
And since that has been going on for decades now you can bet they have their ways and connections around whatever laws exist to try and combat it.
 

[Dracarris]

14 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Chance of treshold to be notified being reached, "entirely unknown" or might not even work properly at the moment because it has been out for just 2 months. How much clearer can I be?

Walking on very thin ice there. Even if the implementation is so bad (which is usually not true with Apple gear), chances compared to a regular GPS tracker are still higher. Airtags have been out for 7 months; at least do your research properly if you want to take yet another dump on Apple. Chances that this feature is borked are quite low.

[Elijah Kamski]

On 12/6/2021 at 2:33 PM, FakeKGB said:

That's really stupid. I hope I don't need to explain why.

Mass tracking.

All in 1 click.

Apple.

Think. Different.

i can't wait to go to public places where everyone is able to track everyone XD

[Spindel]

On 12/6/2021 at 1:25 PM, Dracarris said:

That really is annoying for the use case as an anti-theft device. I wanted to hide a few in/around my bike. But if it ever gets stolen and the thief has an iphone I am straight out of luck.

That's because AirTags where never marketed as an anti-theft device. They where marketed as an device to keep track of stuff you might lose/forget at places, like a bag or wallet, keys etc so you can easily find them again.