This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2

[rikitikitavi]

On 12/1/2021 at 1:44 PM, Biohazard777 said:

Can you define what you mean by an everyday user? To me, it looks like the way you see it an everyday user is in his/her 50s or over which didn't start out using a computer back in DOS days.

And I know plenty of non-technical people both young and old that are well aware of what command prompt is and what ping is. Perhaps this is where our difference in opinions stems from.

I have interacted with a diverse crowd throughout the years, and most of them are people who aren't fully aware what their cellphones can do (even back in the days of dumbphones like Nokia3310), or how to troubleshoot some (what might seem minor) things, a.i. not all of them even google solutions or follow them. People I know get in 'trouble' in iOS (what I consider the most intuitive/simple/userFriendly UI).

 

A parallel with driving a car was drawn before, but it wasn't developed. I see clueless drivers everyday, given that people were exposed to cars for much much longer than anything we are talking about. AND given that driving is SUPPOSED to be highly regulated, with drivers having 'sufficient' knowledge and abilities to be even permitted to drive around - it's a mess, with a regular sight of idiots on the road.

So, 'computer/electronics operation/navigation knowledge', or whatever we can call it, is NOT regulated and IS accessible to everyone. People can't comprehend that they should not stop/block in the middle of intersection in the traffic jam, and you are saying that people can do more complicated things... well yes, they can, but only if they care about it, and your average Joe, doesn't really care about much more than using whatever app/service they need, nor they are 'required' to be curious to find out more. 

 

I strongly believe that everyone should be educated in some topics. Like driving licences should require better knowledge base and much stricter testing. So should just regular folk (who is not curious about the topic) who just wants to use a device, they should RTFM. But those manuals should also be much more approachable. Schools/colleges should have a required adequate 'common knowledge' class/test. However, I'm not gonna make my grandma read anything, I want her devices (iPhone, iPad) to be as straight forward and safe as possible, just like I'm not gonna tell a random person about it, if the only thing they need is calling/messaging/communication from a given device.

 

Linux distros aren't that approachable, although they try to be, like Ubuntu and PopOS, and as far as I know they are a much better choice on an aged/low spec pc than an outdated/unsupported Windows or macOS. For such cases and general-accessibility to wider audiences, there should be a more approachable and idiot-proof environment, simplified DE or smth. Bigger audience - more interest.

 

On 12/1/2021 at 5:54 PM, Biohazard777 said:

Could be a regional thing.
Some people I know that are aware of ping and their professions: mechanic, welder, taxi driver, math professor, salesman, accountant, cook. Their ages 20-60. I am not saying that I don't know people that aren't familiar with it, even in those same professions, heck I for some I am sure they never typed a single command. I just wanted to say that people who aren't into tech can know and some can be taught without much effort. 

Most of my friends 'know' ping only because of online gaming, it doesn't mean that they know more than 'it should be low' - like knowing a random fact on jeopardy doesn't make it that much useful outside of the game. (To the previous quote) So being 'aware' of command prompt or its existence doesn't mean much.

 

Sorry, it feels like ranting

[emosun]

20 hours ago, Jaesop said:

They are. Basically any post about Linux will have them in it making weird, irrational angry takes about it for some reason.

Well then we can count on you to pretend the general populatipn doesnt exist in every post as well

[finest feck fips]

3 hours ago, Rex Hite said:

My business is graphics, photography and printing and I've been told that once Adobe embraces Linux, I can finally stop using Windows. But to what end? Why even care?

If you like using Windows and you don't mind paying for it, then of course not caring is fine, right?

Still, it might be nice for you if Linux were a more viable option in your line of work because it:

• could make it easier to hire or work with people in the industry who happen to be very good and also happen to prefer Linux
• could press Microsoft to improve their platform or make it more broadly compatible
  • (in another space, this kind of thing has already manifested in WSL and Windows Terminal other developer tools, because desktop Linux is significantly competitive with Windows among developers)
• gives you an escape hatch if Microsoft's behavior changes or Windows changes in a way that irritates you, costs you money, or breaks your workflow in the future

But I don't think that fully answers you.

 

3 hours ago, Rex Hite said:

I'm still not clear on why a desktop operating system should be seen as a valuable thing to be debated and fought over.

Here you seem to be wondering why anyone (maybe including you) might prefer one desktop operating system over another in general, and Linux over Windows in particular. Here are a few reasons:

• in Linux culture, user control and privacy are extremely highly valued, so most Linux distros are much, much less likely to engage in behavior that is invasive or disruptive to its users
• while Linux desktop environments are generally less polished than the desktop environment on macOS and generally less complete than the desktop environment on Windows, they are also subject to competition with other desktop environments on their platform. This means that
  • making a desktop application run on Linux automatically enables support for a wide range of workflows
  • some workflows are uniquely well-supported on desktop Linux, automatic tiling window management being the most interesting and unique
    • (among people who have tried it, automatic window tiling is especially beloved by productivity-oriented professionals, so it could be especially useful to people like you or your colleagues)
  • desktop Linux has seen some major innovations in desktop computer usage (for example, virtual desktops/workspaces) long before Windows or macOS, and is likely to do so again
  • the functionality of the desktop itself tends to be much more customizable on Linux, which can be nice for professionals
  • the aesthetics of the desktop tend to be extremely customizable on Linux, which can be important to people in the same way that decorating one's home or office can matter for one's quality of life
  • in the desktop Linux world, it's very difficult to get rid of workflows that anybody uses and likes; if many users are accustomed to a specific way of doing things and have a strong preference for it, and the desktop environment that supports that way of doing things changes, generally there will be a fork that preserves the old way of doing things and evolves in a less disruptive way. This is a nice kind of insurance against disruptions to your preferences that you don't get with vendors who have monopolies on the desktop experience on their respective platforms
• translation/localization can be done by volunteers for free software operating system, which has resulted in a situation where some languages are well supported on desktop Linux and not anywhere else. Naturally, this could matter significantly to you if your mother tongue is one such language
• (this is hard to explain to people who haven't experienced it, but) using a free software operating system can give you a stronger sense of ownership and pride of place with respect to your computer, which just feels really good when you spend a lot of time at your computer. In contrast, operating systems that interrupt you or babysit you to protect you from yourself can leave you feeling like your tools don't really belong to you

As for the debating and ‘fighting’: it's not fully rational or results-oriented, but people like debating their preferences. People like debating which operating system is ‘best’ the same way they like arguing about what food tastes good, or what music is interesting, which movies are worth watching, or which games are fun to play.

Plus if you know something well and love it, when you see others are taking a look at it for the first time, it's easy to feel like they're overlooking important parts of it, or getting distracted by unimportant details. It's natural to want to guide them toward ways of seeing that thing that you think are more interesting, more productive, or more exciting than a naive look realistically can be, even when you know that for some purposes a naive look is especially valuable.

[Guest Linux-Is-Best]

On 12/2/2021 at 2:01 PM, emosun said:

Common sense

 

Youre working under the premice that people have a fear for using text based interfaces incorrectly , rather than realising that people DONT WANT TO TYPE out a long command for something that only needs a single mindless click.

 

The only people who think command line interfaces are good are the 1% of people who must have a massive ammount of time to dedicate themselves into having to learn it. 

 

If only a single type of human existed on earth , then theyd have a chance at this becoming a reality. Until every person on earth suddenly has no interest in anything else other than learning linux commands then go figure.... a button that says what it does turns out to be preferable.

 

The longer linux devs or users ignore basic erogonomics then the longer it will always be niche. If they like it thats fine , idc what other people do. Just dont be surprised it doesnt catch on.

I loved this post because it is so true. It is one of the reasons why I use OpenSUSE Linux. I know how to use the terminal, but I do not want to. I get home from work, and I don't want to spend the next several minutes or more typing away into a terminal. I do that for work. All I want to do is "point and click" and use my computer at home. Period.

 

Everything most Windows users do, so do I. From work, play games, surf the web, stream movies, photo edit, video edit, etc. And I do it using my mouse pointer. I can use the terminal. I can do everything from upgrading my system, partitioning my drive, encrypting and decrypting, copying, moving, editing, deleting folders and files, etc. I can do that and more from the terminal, but I do not want to. I want to right-click and extract a zip file, drag and drop things into a folder, plugin my hardware, and my OS will automatically add it. And I can do this and more using OpenSUSE. Gecko Linux if I'm feeling particularly lazy and want it pre-configured right away after my install (it's OpenSUSE pre-configured).

 

Because my time is important to me, and while I can type fast, my mouse pointer can click and perform several actions in a blink of an eye before you have completed the next series of terminal commands. And because I use XFCE, my desktop looks and acts like a classic Windows desktop with a start menu without much of a learning curve.

 

[Guest Linux-Is-Best]

As for the whole free software -vs.- "other" debate. I want to start by saying I like free software. Who doesn't like a free lunch? But I am perfectly "OK" with paying for my software, too, if I believe it is worth it. I like the idea of commercial software incorporated into the Linux ecosystem. Capitalism, along with profits, does drive adaption and usage. When something becomes profitable, it is used. When something is used, others try to either emulate or improve upon that concept, and now you have competition. There are countless untold amounts of free software available for Windows, Linux, and Apple. And some of that free software drives development and innovation. But the capitalistic nature of any market or industry can catapult things very quickly. So while everyone may be obsessed with FLOSS, I am perfectly "OK" with a commercial aspect.

 

 

[Jaesop]

8 hours ago, emosun said:

Well then we can count on you to pretend the general populatipn doesnt exist in every post as well

Can we? It doesn't seem wise to rely on me to do something so consistently when I've quite literally never done it. Seems irrational, even. Are you okay?

[xAcid9]

14 hours ago, Bramimond said:

GUI on Windows changes very frequently.

Oh man.. I still salty they removed access to Task Manager via right clicking the Taskbar on Windows 11. 

 

14 hours ago, willies leg said:

The only way Windows is better than Linux is for Windows games. Everything else, Windows sucks.

Feel free to discuss below.

Android emulator on LInux is not as good as those available on Windows, performance wise.

[skedarwarrior]

I had no idea that you could use turbo tax online without windows... :)

Fascinating, thats another nail in the coffin then...

:)

[SnowyRVulpix]

On 11/24/2021 at 2:16 AM, BaidDSB said:

Ya all this series is doing is pushing me away from linux more. i certainly dont have the energy to deal with its daily BS and i might stop using computers altogether if i have to daily drive it today with a gun on my head.

 

Linux chads, stop hyping beta products and come back when its causal consumer ready.

The thing is, Linus’ experience is not representative of Linux. He’s making a lot of dumb mistakes. Like downloading a script from github incorrectly. Even the most novice Windows user had to see that coming a mile away.

 

He also chose a distro not designed for casual users. 
 

Linus has failed the Linux gaming challenge, and it is only 25% Linux’ fault.

[SnowyRVulpix]

12 hours ago, Rex Hite said:

I'm still not clear on why a desktop operating system should be seen as a valuable thing to be debated and fought over. My business is graphics, photography and printing and I've been told that once Adobe embraces Linux, I can finally stop using Windows. But to what end? Why even care? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At the fundamental level, it depends on who you want to own your system

 

In Windows, Microsoft calls the shots. Sure you can customise some things, but only what they say… and they can break work arounds easily. Same with MacOS though Apple is more polished than Windows.

 

With Linux, you own the system. Anything you want to change is up to you. The system updates when you tell it. Don’t want the default web browser? Uninstall it. Want to change the entire desktop environment? Do so.

 

With Linux, you’re the boss. You control everything, you’re in charge.

[adnega]

14 hours ago, Bramimond said:

 What I like most about the Linux CLI is that you learn it only once. GUI on Windows changes very frequently.

Windows CLI stuff doesn't change often either. And it feels like Linux GUI stuff changes more frequently than Windows GUI stuff.

CLI applications have a few major advantages.

1. It's easier to code up a CLI application than a GUI application.
2. It's easier to test a CLI application than a GUI application
3. It's easier to automate things with a CLI application because you can treat the CLI as an application API

But for ordinary users a well designed GUI is normally better than a CLI because the visuals in the GUI (when done well) are more inviting to new users and are better at helping users learn how to use the application.

[xAcid9]

35 minutes ago, SnowyRVulpix said:

He also chose a distro not designed for casual users. 

Why Manjaro not designed for casual users?

[Bramimond]

28 minutes ago, adnega said:

Windows CLI stuff doesn't change often either. And it feels like Linux GUI stuff changes more frequently than Windows GUI stuff.

Linux GUI only ever changes if you want it to change. I switched from Win98 to Linux and my GUI never changed without me wanting it to change.

Not sure what you mean by Windows CLI, but I know for a fact that Powershell changes all the time, wrecking the scripts I write for work. 

 

If you wrote something for the Linux CLI 20, 30 years ago, it will still work today. 

You can't even play DOS games on Windows without an emulator and back then it was all CLI.

 

28 minutes ago, adnega said:

But for ordinary users a well designed GUI is normally better than a CLI because the visuals in the GUI (when done well) are more inviting to new users and are better at helping users learn how to use the application.

 

Ordinary users do not need a computer at all. A smartphone completely suffices for all their needs. Touch interfaces are also more natural than pointing and clicking with a mouse.

 

I'm not disputing the advantages of a GUI. All I'm saying is that you can do everything a CLI can do more easily with a CLI and that people do not use the CLI because they are nerds, but because it is way easier. 

 

Yes, crawling on the ground works and is really easy, but at some point most of us learn to walk. Initially, it is more difficult than crawling, but it also brings a lot of advantages that make it worthwhile. And once you know how to walk, crawling is kind of a pain in the ass, you know? But when it comes to tech and various other stuff our modern society kinda infantilizes its people. "You don't need to know that. You don't even need to think. We think for you. If you have nothing to hide, why does it matter if we spy on you? That opinion you have there makes you a <insert buzzword>, you should probably just have the opinion we made for you or there might be consequences." That's kinda how it feels.

[Arika]

1 hour ago, SnowyRVulpix said:

He also chose a distro not designed for casual users. 

lets have a look at Manjaro's website.

 

 

 

So the people who MADE the distro are lying? Sure seems like it was designed for casual users.

 

 

[creesch]

53 minutes ago, Arika S said:

lets have a look at Manjaro's website.

 

 

 

So the people who MADE the distro are lying? Sure seems like it was designed for casual users.

 

 

Eh lying is a bit of a hyperbole I'd say. But I'd say that they are not setting the expectations entirely right as it highly depends on what is considered a newcomer, what they are intending to do with the operating system, etc. The first thing you highlighted "suitable replacement" isn't a lie for a bunch of use cases but isn't entirely true either if you factor in things like gaming (which is the context of this entire thread). 

 

The thing is and what many people, including you, seem to completely overlook is that things aren't binary in the slightest. We are talking about a wide spectrum of users with various needs, knowledge levels and expectations. But that is all thrown out of the window now with a healthy "curse of knowledge" thrown in for good measure here and there. 

 

Frankly the only reason I am replying again in this thread is because it keeps popping up in my activity stream and it seems to have devolved in classic internet slap fighting of short snappy back and forth snarky comments without actually discussing anything at all anymore.  The last pages are just people commenting back and forth about how the other is wrong, lying or accusing others of lying without any attempt at finding common grounds.  

 

Fyi, I replied to you but that is just because you are the last one to reply in this thread. My comment is aimed at a wider audience. 

[BaidDSB]

4 hours ago, SnowyRVulpix said:

The thing is, Linus’ experience is not representative of Linux. He’s making a lot of dumb mistakes. Like downloading a script from github incorrectly. Even the most novice Windows user had to see that coming a mile away.

 

He also chose a distro not designed for casual users. 
 

Linus has failed the Linux gaming challenge, and it is only 25% Linux’ fault.

im not a "novice" but i dont understand github at all.

 

you chads overestimate linux's user friendliness and the casual market. it will never be an OS for the masses in 10 years

[Kilrah]

4 hours ago, SnowyRVulpix said:

Even the most novice Windows user had to see that coming a mile away.

I couldn't count how many times users of a project I use have flashed a webpage to their device instead of the actual bin firmware file that was hosted on github - distribution method had to be changed to cater for that...

[Gimmick21]

1 hour ago, creesch said:

But that is all thrown out of the window now with a healthy "curse of knowledge" thrown in for good measure here and there. 

 

Just as an addition:

The so called "curse" is here often used to explain that "if you know how to use Linux [as an example] you cannot understand how a newcomer [switching from Win] sees things".

But that's only one side of the curse. The Win-user is cursed, too. And so is everybody else. And that's why a save icon is a floppy disk and why desktops like Gnome 3 have/had a hard time.

So everyone plays the guessing game when it comes to GUI design and what you think what a new user knows.

 

When it comes to sources for software I think Linux is actually in a good position with the repos, since almost everyone uses a smartphone and is familiar with the concept of an "app store".

30 minutes ago, BaidDSB said:

im not a "novice" but i dont understand github at all.

 

you chads overestimate linux's user friendliness and the casual market. it will never be an OS for the masses in 10 years

Those situations like the github download are not that rare. Sometimes you want to download something, but the browser displays it; or you want to view content, but the browser downloads it; or the page for the file is described with the name of the file - like .msi vs .exe - and sends you to a page with multiple hosts....

 

You really only know what's going to happen after you click the link once.

But what never happens: left click on .msi -> website with a links list, right click + download -> download of the file.

 

There are distros with a very user friendly user-space. So if that space is enough it will be one of the most user firendly experiences ever.. if not... ^^.

Maybe the "basic compatibility to everything" gets better the more the "simple desktop pc" gets replaced by mobile/smart devices. A modern smartphone with docking station should be enough for external input devices + monitor + office + video chatting these days.

[creesch]

15 minutes ago, Gimmick21 said:

The so called "curse" is here often used to explain that "if you know how to use Linux [as an example] you cannot understand how a newcomer [switching from Win] sees things".

To be frank, that leans somewhat to the sort of binary take I am taking a bit of an issue with You are entirely right that it isn't just limited to within the Linux ecosystem/community as it is an issue more widespread in IT in general and frankly outside of it as well. At the same time it doesn't mean it is an off-topic thing as it is rather prevalent here as well. 

[Guest willies leg]

11 hours ago, xAcid9 said:

Oh man.. I still salty they removed access to Task Manager via right clicking the Taskbar on Windows 11. 

 

Android emulator on LInux is not as good as those available on Windows, performance wise.

 

Yeah, but the Android development environments are a lot less buggy on Linux. Windows is full of bugs that need 1GB+ downloads to fix

 

 

[illuanonx]

Linus is trolling to Linux community. Remember, he is running a ad-business

 

And a little Windows trolling: What a non-user friendly OS Windows 11 is. It's not even telling me that I need to open my browser, type steam.com, find the download section and download the .exe file and in x64 architecture, to finally run the installer.

 

Its all about perspective. Windows users have forgotten, how long it took to learn the system. Linux is no different.

[mamamia88]

Linus I love you but, how can I take tech tips from someone who would agree to that error message? You know on mac it's kinda a pain in the ass to install something not from the app store? Like you gotta jump through 3 hoops to finally do it? Or how windows kinda keeps asking you to update and you say no just to be asked again in 2 hours? Usually when an os does something like that it's for a relatively good reason. Because you can update the entire system even the most important part (the kernel) with zero manual intervention needed other than a simple y/n question. The fact that it said "are you sure? Then went are you really sure? Are you really sure? ok fine i'll do it but, first i need you to type yes i agree" is kinda like mcdonalds is asking you to digitally sign a contract to get a big mac. You're not even thinking "why does mcdonalds want me to type "yes i want a big mac" into the terminal to get a big mac?" Installing steam on linux is about as trivial of a task as getting a cheeseburger at a drive thru. Maybe even easier. Just gotta remember sudo pacman -S steam and in like a minute it's installed. It's called pacman cause it's a package manager so it's easy to remember. And -S why? Not sure exactly but, easy enough to remember the flag. Apt might even be easier cause you just gotta apt install steam. So if it's asking you "do you want to remove half your system for a 5 second y/n transaction? type a full sentence confirmation"  you should know not to agree without reading it. Sorry if i'm at the drive thru and the cashier is like "sir please recite "i would like a b c d e f g orally. i understand that by doing so I will be removing my apendix, and tonsils. No red flags at all right?  Also dude you could have just informed people that different distros have different package managers that are both way easier to use than any other os btw. :") instead of making it seem like manjaros fault for assuming somebody capable of discovering manjaro  through a google search was capable of googling "how do i install steam on manjaro or arch based systems" and discovering it's in pacman and be like "wow that was easy. You just made something super easy sound super difficult to millions of people. And yeah not all hardware works properly. Like why would high end audio equipment or gaming equipment always have drivers for an os that the gaming industry has largely ignored for 20 years while windows get's all the love? If you go into it expecting it not to work you'll usually be pleasantly suprised on linux. But, expecting hardware to always work especially when the desktop marketshare is 1% and of those 1% how many overlap with the gaming audience? You want a gui installer way of doing something. It has a glitch and refuses to do it. it does that. So you go into a terminal and run the same exact command (btw the entire gui package manager is basically just a way to graphically present the same info but, you knew that.) and it gives you the same warning in a text form. But, at this point its late at night you're tired you just want a fucking cheeseburger and the initial install only took 10 minutes and was super easy.  The first thing you did borked the system so you have maybe what half hour invested at this point? So you say "fine do as i say" knowing damn well you could chose a different distro tommorow morning or just fresh install pop os and hope that it works properly after fully upgrading everything and the bug was corrected. So instead of just spending half hour to reinstall pop os or switch to an arch based distro like you kinda planned anyway you agreed like 4 times to nuke your system and were angry when it finally did it for you. Now 2 million people considering linux will think they should start with manjaro instead of pop os as a beginner. Which we know isn't true. You know it's a community project.Your rgb doesn't have software cause you're hoping the 1% of linux users who don't just dualboot windows for gaming also have the same peripheals do. github stuff lor that stuff sometimes fixes it sometimes doesn't. If it works at all consider yourself lucky but, the mouse and keyboard are still perfectly usable without lights on them shocker. it's just impressive any of this works. I think that's why people fall in love with linux. It only holds your hands when you ask it too or when it really really should be holding your hand. And the complete os can be up and running in half hour so occassionally at 2am when you're half asleep you'll roll the dice on something that will probably brick your system. And even if you manage to completely destroy your system you could use timeshift or just install pop os between sips of coffee tommorow morning. 

[adnega]

51 minutes ago, mamamia88 said:

Linus I love you but, how can I take tech tips from someone who would agree to that error message? You know on mac it's kinda a pain in the ass to install something not from the app store? Like you gotta jump through 3 hoops to finally do it? Or how windows kinda keeps asking you to update and you say no just to be asked again in 2 hours? Usually when an os does something like that it's for a relatively good reason. Because you can update the entire system even the most important part (the kernel) with zero manual intervention needed other than a simple y/n question. The fact that it said "are you sure? Then went are you really sure? Are you really sure? ok fine i'll do it but, first i need you to type yes i agree" is kinda like mcdonalds is asking you to digitally sign a contract to get a big mac. You're not even thinking "why does mcdonalds want me to type "yes i want a big mac" into the terminal to get a big mac?" Installing steam on linux is about as trivial of a task as getting a cheeseburger at a drive thru. Maybe even easier. Just gotta remember sudo pacman -S steam and in like a minute it's installed. It's called pacman cause it's a package manager so it's easy to remember. And -S why? Not sure exactly but, easy enough to remember the flag. Apt might even be easier cause you just gotta apt install steam. So if it's asking you "do you want to remove half your system for a 5 second y/n transaction? type a full sentence confirmation"  you should know not to agree without reading it. Sorry if i'm at the drive thru and the cashier is like "sir please recite "i would like a b c d e f g orally. i understand that by doing so I will be removing my apendix, and tonsils. No red flags at all right?  Also dude you could have just informed people that different distros have different package managers that are both way easier to use than any other os btw. :") instead of making it seem like manjaros fault for assuming somebody capable of discovering manjaro  through a google search was capable of googling "how do i install steam on manjaro or arch based systems" and discovering it's in pacman and be like "wow that was easy. You just made something super easy sound super difficult to millions of people. And yeah not all hardware works properly. Like why would high end audio equipment or gaming equipment always have drivers for an os that the gaming industry has largely ignored for 20 years while windows get's all the love? If you go into it expecting it not to work you'll usually be pleasantly suprised on linux. But, expecting hardware to always work especially when the desktop marketshare is 1% and of those 1% how many overlap with the gaming audience? You want a gui installer way of doing something. It has a glitch and refuses to do it. it does that. So you go into a terminal and run the same exact command (btw the entire gui package manager is basically just a way to graphically present the same info but, you knew that.) and it gives you the same warning in a text form. But, at this point its late at night you're tired you just want a fucking cheeseburger and the initial install only took 10 minutes and was super easy.  The first thing you did borked the system so you have maybe what half hour invested at this point? So you say "fine do as i say" knowing damn well you could chose a different distro tommorow morning or just fresh install pop os and hope that it works properly after fully upgrading everything and the bug was corrected. So instead of just spending half hour to reinstall pop os or switch to an arch based distro like you kinda planned anyway you agreed like 4 times to nuke your system and were angry when it finally did it for you. Now 2 million people considering linux will think they should start with manjaro instead of pop os as a beginner. Which we know isn't true. You know it's a community project.Your rgb doesn't have software cause you're hoping the 1% of linux users who don't just dualboot windows for gaming also have the same peripheals do. github stuff lor that stuff sometimes fixes it sometimes doesn't. If it works at all consider yourself lucky but, the mouse and keyboard are still perfectly usable without lights on them shocker. it's just impressive any of this works. I think that's why people fall in love with linux. It only holds your hands when you ask it too or when it really really should be holding your hand. And the complete os can be up and running in half hour so occassionally at 2am when you're half asleep you'll roll the dice on something that will probably brick your system. And even if you manage to completely destroy your system you could use timeshift or just install pop os between sips of coffee tommorow morning. 

It looks like your formatting got lost. You might want to add some whitespace to that if you want/expect anyone to read it.

[mamamia88]

31 minutes ago, adnega said:

It looks like your formatting got lost. You might want to add some whitespace to that if you want/expect anyone to read it.

I drank some strong ass coffee and started writing just to get my thoughts out there cause I had alot. I still think some of the points are good so Ill leave it up there but, i'll try to edit it later

[snickerpop]

 

 

Gitlab actual has a way better interface when it comes to Downloads

 

As far as I know on GitHub you have three options

- git clone

- Download Individual Files

- Download A compress version of all files

 

GitLab has downloads buttons on every view so you can 

 - Download an individual file

- Download an entire Directly, by itself

- Download the entire Program