Microsoft to "maybe" withhold driver and security updates from "unsupported" Windows 11 installs

[mr moose]

7 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

eh, idk about that, compared to windows 7, even windows 8, I see a lot more complaints with driver issues or thing related to forced updates, which wouldn't even be a problem if MS didn't force updates. Or as mentioned get driver updates separated from OS updates,  and MS sort of does that with a few updates sometimes does under their "optional updates" so it couldn't be that difficult to allow people to add drivers to the optional list.

Well if MS listened to their insider team aka free beta testers, I doubt there would be so many issues with windows update, and at the least MS should have more than enough telemetry to deliver updates that aren't breaking things as Windows 10 has been out since 2015. For example I shouldn't have to go into the installed updates and uninstall something because an update causes a slowdown or might randomly break something.

And I understand media likes to report on stuff that gets the most clicks, but microsoft even considering that they would prevent updates from "unsupported" hardware is bad, and they've done a really crap job on making clear on what hardware is supported for Windows 11, also ridiculous that their own Surface Studio won't be officially compatible with Windows 11.

Again, how many issues?  people keep saying there are more but no figures or data.  It is entirely possible that we are seeing more only because more people have found forums to post on, it is possible we are only seeing more because the internet has grown and social media has given everyone a soap box.  It is just as likely (and anecdotally from my experience) that there have been less issues with 10 than any other version so far.   I'm not saying don't bash MS, they deserve it many times (especially the "check for updates" button), Just asking we keep this to facts and not assumptions based on media articles.

 

7 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Sure MS can double down on not wanting to support hardware that should be perfectly capable of running W11, but that isn't going to get people to upgrade from W10, seems like MS doesn't even care though lol.

I don't think they care if people don't upgrade right away,  for the next 4 years everyone has the option to stick with 10, which will remain absolutely serviceable for 99.9% of users. If there is a diabolical problem with needing to go to win11 and for what ever reason you want to keep your almost 10 yo hardware,  then at that point we can have a debate about merits and motivations.

 

 

 

 

[leadeater]

17 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

eh, idk about that, compared to windows 7, even windows 8, I see a lot more complaints with driver issues or thing related to forced updates, which wouldn't even be a problem if MS didn't force updates. Or as mentioned get driver updates separated from OS updates,  and MS sort of does that with a few updates sometimes does under their "optional updates" so it couldn't be that difficult to allow people to add drivers to the optional list.

Doubt there is any difference drivers wise, people seemly always have issues with that for whatever reasons and that's been consistent across all the OS releases. I'd have to say the biggest was the switch to Vista where the driver and audio stacks were completely changed.

 

Also driver updates via Windows Updates is not enabled by default, not even if you click check for updates. You have to either change the Windows Updates configuration or manually click check updates then go in to optional update and then down to drivers and select to install the driver updates it has found.

 

17 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Well if MS listened to their insider team aka free beta testers, I doubt there would be so many issues with windows update, and at the least MS should have more than enough telemetry to deliver updates that aren't breaking things as Windows 10 has been out since 2015

The issue around this is more to do with the change in how Microsoft releases features and updates the OS. Windows 10 isn't a static OS anymore with long lead times to Service Packs, they keep pumping out new things and changing core  aspects of the OS that would in the past normally be reserved for Service Packs. As with the good old days you'd normally wait like 3 months before installing a Service Pack because a Service Pack also pretty much meant Bug Pack.

 

So instead of getting 14 new bugs all at once you get 1 or 2 every half year along with the security update related ones that pop up from time to time as well.

 

Microsoft is a giant organization, getting information to those that actually matter is difficult or takes a long time or heck they are delivered incomplete or incorrect information as it passes through many hands. The Insider Program isn't actually design around bug reporting as much as it is around general feedback for new features, it's both but it's not an explicit bug checking and reporting channel and that's why it falls down. It's like that because anyone can be part of it which means the reports themselves are unreliable.

[StDragon]

4 hours ago, leadeater said:

Also driver updates via Windows Updates is not enabled by default, not even if you click check for updates. You have to either change the Windows Updates configuration or manually click check updates then go in to optional update and then down to drivers and select to install the driver updates it has found.

There is an exception to that rule. If the driver in question is deemed a "Critical Update", then it supersedes it being optional. So if you check for updates and install them, and one of them happens to be a driver, it will get installed along with the rest of them.

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, StDragon said:

There is an exception to that rule. If the driver in question is deemed a "Critical Update", then it supersedes it being optional. So if you check for updates and install them, and one of them happens to be a driver, it will get installed along with the rest of them.

Good point, those recent ish GPU driver vulnerabilities spring to mind as potential ones that would have been delivered down through Windows Updates this way.

[Whispre]

21 hours ago, hishnash said:

but really they are pushing companies hard to move everything to azure,

Not totally true. 

 

We meet with our Microsoft rep quarterly, and the message from MS has been consistent for years now. They recommend moving "workloads that make sense" to the cloud and keeping other work loads on premise where they make sense. NOT "move all things to the cloud". 

 

Even for our desktops/laptops, the focus is on keeping the OS on the device and just doing the Azure Join instead of Domain Join in a hybrid scenario... Azure based PC's make sense for certain workloads, but not most and Microsoft recognizes that and sets that message to it's corporate customers.

[StDragon]

14 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Good point, those recent ish GPU driver vulnerabilities spring to mind as potential ones that would have been delivered down through Windows Updates this way.

I've had a few VMWare NIC drivers get installed this way too. Caused some trouble when patching a server in the middle of until day as it dropped all connectivity for a moment. Could have timed that better for sure, but I was blindsided by it. Because it didn't re-engage with WINSOCK completely, I had to reboot the VM. To say I was annoyed would be an understatement.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, StDragon said:

I've had a few VMWare NIC drivers get installed this way too. Caused some trouble when patching a server in the middle of until day as it dropped all connectivity for a moment. Could have timed that better for sure, but I was blindsided by it. Because it didn't re-engage with WINSOCK completely, I had to reboot the VM. To say I was annoyed would be an understatement.

offf, yea we don't approve any driver updates through SCCM/WSUS at all. Too much potential for pain, same for automatic VMware Tools upgrade option in vCenter. Again we push out via SCCM Application, because if you just let it do auto-upgrade then it typically happens during patching which causes either one to final which is typically VMware Tools and you might be left with no NIC drivers some times.

[hishnash]

11 hours ago, Whispre said:

Azure based PC's make sense for certain workloads, but not most and Microsoft recognizes that and sets that message to it's corporate customers.

At my last job, were were a software vendor for the mining industry we had a lot of `support` from MS to provide the ability for our joint customers to use `azure workstations`.

I think with the push into Window 365, MS doe shave a long term image were they sell mostly think client level (lower speed machines) into industry and move as much of the hardware cost to a monthly subscription within azure.  Lost of companies like this (at least in the mining industry) as they operate as contractors for contractors etc and thus if they buy hardware that is seen as capital investment so they can't bill for it easily but if they rent stuff (cloud best is simplest) this is seen as a `job` expense and thus can be billed for.  

Long term, 10 + years into the future i think MS see a world were they might sell hardware that runs `windows` but that is mostly a think client to Azure with some local ability to handle when you loose connectivity but all `real work` happens on an azure workstation were they can charge a nigh high subscription rather than OEMs getting the money for hardware MS get to get this money.