Z590 with i9-11900K - Frequent freezes/blue screens - bug in Intel?

[Guest]

11 hours ago, iransofaraway said:

Nope, I gave up and left C-STATES off.

Tried telling you guys that months ago.

 

7 hours ago, Falkentyne said:

 

I went through some of your original screenshots and I found a few problems already.

I noticed that your "VCCST" is reporting 1.6v. This is a LN2 voltage setting and should NEVER be this high.

Also you have another setting called "CPU Standby 1" which is reporting 1.056v, which is the correct value.

I'm honestly not sure what's going on here.

There are two standby voltages.  One is "Standby (VCCST) and one is Standby Gated (VCCSTG).

Normally, the one that HWinfo reports as VCCST is the regular standby voltage.  Standby Gated (VCCSTG) is almost never reported by hwinfo unless the "Embedded Controller" field for your motherboard reveals this, and that's always in its own section "E.g. EC" or "Embedded Controller."

 

Anyway, both voltages should normally be set to 1.05v, which is also the same default voltage for "DMI voltage".

 

Another issue I saw is your VCC PLL.  I'm going to assume that this is "PLL Termination Voltage".   Usually Gigabyte motherboards have traditionally called this "VCC VTT", VTT meaning Termination, much like, for DDR4 memory overclocking, you may have heard of DDR VTT voltage", or DDR Termination Voltage", which is normally set to 1/2 of "Memory VDIMM" voltage.  But these voltages are often called different names depending on OEM (Asus, Gigabyte, Asrock, MSI etc). 

 

Anyway...

PLL Termination Voltage should ALWAYS be set to the SAME Value as Standby voltage, which is 1.05v.  This is yet another LN2 setting.  Sometimes, raising PLL Termination Voltage and CPU Standby (VCCST) voltage together a few ticks (e.g., from 1.05v to 1.20v) can help stabilize cache overclock a little bit, on air/water cooling, but this is never needed for stock operation or regular light overclocking.

 

What we found on both Z590 and Z690 motherboards (ESPECIALLY on Z690 motherboards), is that PLL Termination Voltage needs to be within a certain range of Standby voltage, or the system can completely hard lock (or even report "No CPU detected" or "Post code 00" error after a power off).  I think on Z590, PLL Term had to be within a certain amount of millivolts of Standby voltage, while on Z690, they need to be set to the same value.

 

I'm honestly hoping that hwinfo64 is reporting an incorrect value, as a PLL Termination Voltage of 1.20v, while not unsafe, is not standard at all.

 

The second problem is your VCCST.  That's reporting 1.60v and this is absolutely NOT correct and NOT safe.  However I know nothing about Asrock boards so I don't know what's going on here.  This is a LN2 setting (designed to prevent "cold bugs" when trying to run subzero cooling).

 

Are you using the very, very latest version of HWinfo64 from the hwinfo website?  If not, try using that and see if you still get a 1.60v reading.

Otherwise, if you can find these values in your BIOS (VCCST and VCCST Gated), you can change them both to 1.05v, and change VCC VTT / PLL Termination Voltage to 1.05v and see if that improves anything.

I run 1.310v PLL Termination and Cpu Standby for 400 fsb..... on air cooling. Yes on air.

 

But definitely shouldn't need more than default 1.05v if not overclocking the fsb.

 

But I'm not sure that these are (LN2) voltages, certainly wouldn't keep these settings for daily. 

[chrischevrier1]

19 hours ago, iransofaraway said:

Nope, I gave up and left C-STATES off entirely in BIOS (and I also run "High Performance" power profile in Windows), and haven't had any stability issues since.

 

I haven't seen any BIOS updates for my motherboard since 2021/8/12 - so I assume they don't think there's a problem or don't care, and/or Intel can't fix it.

So we ended up getting some new ram, Corsair Vengeance Dominator Platinum RGB 3200MHz memory instead and it's running flawlessly now. We also cleared the CMOS after installing the RAM. It's working great now. Seems like the issue was the TridentZ Neo memory we were trying to use, it was even labeled for Ryzen on the package, guess we missed that.

[sh10151]

On 1/9/2022 at 12:03 AM, Falkentyne said:

 

I went through some of your original screenshots and I found a few problems already.

I noticed that your "VCCST" is reporting 1.6v. This is a LN2 voltage setting and should NEVER be this high.

Also you have another setting called "CPU Standby 1" which is reporting 1.056v, which is the correct value.

I'm honestly not sure what's going on here.

There are two standby voltages.  One is "Standby (VCCST) and one is Standby Gated (VCCSTG).

Normally, the one that HWinfo reports as VCCST is the regular standby voltage.  Standby Gated (VCCSTG) is almost never reported by hwinfo unless the "Embedded Controller" field for your motherboard reveals this, and that's always in its own section "E.g. EC" or "Embedded Controller."

 

Anyway, both voltages should normally be set to 1.05v, which is also the same default voltage for "DMI voltage".

 

Another issue I saw is your VCC PLL.  I'm going to assume that this is "PLL Termination Voltage".   Usually Gigabyte motherboards have traditionally called this "VCC VTT", VTT meaning Termination, much like, for DDR4 memory overclocking, you may have heard of DDR VTT voltage", or DDR Termination Voltage", which is normally set to 1/2 of "Memory VDIMM" voltage.  But these voltages are often called different names depending on OEM (Asus, Gigabyte, Asrock, MSI etc). 

 

Anyway...

PLL Termination Voltage should ALWAYS be set to the SAME Value as Standby voltage, which is 1.05v.  This is yet another LN2 setting.  Sometimes, raising PLL Termination Voltage and CPU Standby (VCCST) voltage together a few ticks (e.g., from 1.05v to 1.20v) can help stabilize cache overclock a little bit, on air/water cooling, but this is never needed for stock operation or regular light overclocking.

 

What we found on both Z590 and Z690 motherboards (ESPECIALLY on Z690 motherboards), is that PLL Termination Voltage needs to be within a certain range of Standby voltage, or the system can completely hard lock (or even report "No CPU detected" or "Post code 00" error after a power off).  I think on Z590, PLL Term had to be within a certain amount of millivolts of Standby voltage, while on Z690, they need to be set to the same value.

 

I'm honestly hoping that hwinfo64 is reporting an incorrect value, as a PLL Termination Voltage of 1.20v, while not unsafe, is not standard at all.

 

The second problem is your VCCST.  That's reporting 1.60v and this is absolutely NOT correct and NOT safe.  However I know nothing about Asrock boards so I don't know what's going on here.  This is a LN2 setting (designed to prevent "cold bugs" when trying to run subzero cooling).

 

Are you using the very, very latest version of HWinfo64 from the hwinfo website?  If not, try using that and see if you still get a 1.60v reading.

Otherwise, if you can find these values in your BIOS (VCCST and VCCST Gated), you can change them both to 1.05v, and change VCC VTT / PLL Termination Voltage to 1.05v and see if that improves anything.

I don't know if anything is off on these values, but this is what latest HWiNFO64 shows:

[Guest]

1 hour ago, iransofaraway said:

I don't know if anything is off on these values, but this is what latest HWiNFO64 shows:

 

System Agent voltage (VCCSA) is pretty high. Could use less than 1.2v unless you're overclocking the memory hard.

[sh10151]

42 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

System Agent voltage (VCCSA) is pretty high. Could use less than 1.2v unless you're overclocking the memory hard.

Interesting. I'm just using the regular "XMP Profile #1" for my RAM in BIOS. Everything is defaults, except C-State's set disabled and Clever Access Memory enabled.

 

All voltage stuff is set to "Auto" in BIOS.

 

Are you saying I should maybe not use XMP, or adjust some of the voltage stuff below away from "Auto" ?

[Guest]

Just now, iransofaraway said:

Interesting. I'm just using the regular "XMP Profile #1" for my RAM in BIOS. Everything is defaults, except C-State's set disabled and Clever Access Memory enabled.

 

All voltage stuff is set to "Auto" in BIOS.

 

Are you saying I should maybe not use XMP, or adjust some of the voltage stuff below away from "Auto" ?

 

 

XMP is just dandy, use it if it's stable....

 

My Asus board pumps the VCCIO and SA pretty hard like that as well.

You shouldn't need more than 1.2v for each unless trying to run Cas 12 at 4000mhz, then maybe 1.4v....

[Falkentyne]

7 hours ago, iransofaraway said:

Interesting. I'm just using the regular "XMP Profile #1" for my RAM in BIOS. Everything is defaults, except C-State's set disabled and Clever Access Memory enabled.

 

All voltage stuff is set to "Auto" in BIOS.

 

Are you saying I should maybe not use XMP, or adjust some of the voltage stuff below away from "Auto" ?

 

The voltages in BIOS seem to be within reasonable spec, although VCCIO_MEM, which I assume is set that way for XMP, seems a bit high (there are two VCCIO's, one for the CPU IO itself, which shouldn't really need to be changed unless there's a good reason for it, and one for memory, which is the one people were used to being yeeted back on Z390, Z490, etc).

 

What I'm not sure is where "VCCST" in hwinfo is getting its 1.584v-1.60v reading from.  The three standby voltages in BIOS are all within spec (1.050v).

No idea why that board defaults VCCPLL to 1.2v (PLL Termination Voltage).  Maybe they did it on purpose but no idea why.

 

what happens if you set VCCPLL manually to 1.050v?  This setting should be close to standby voltage (no more than 100mv separated).

[Rockstar_TH]

I know it has been a hot minute since you posted this but: Did you ever figure out the problem?

 

I’m currently having the same exact issue. Sometimes I’m able to play performance hungry games like Flight Sim 2020 for a week straight with no issues. But then the next week it freezes multiple times a day while I’m just playing Rocket League - or even doing nothing in the Windows environment. It’s so random…

 

I’ve tried everything from flashing/rolling back BIOS, updating BIOS. XMP on and off. Testing different RAM, PSU’s. Reinstalling Windows 10 (and 11) - even with no drivers installed. All sorts of analyzing tools and benchmarks. Literally nothing. I’m clueless and frustrated.

 

Hardware specs:

• ASUS ROG STRIX Z590-F GAMINGWIFI
• Intel Core i9-10900K Tray
• HyperX Fury RGB DDR4 3200MHz 32GB
• 1TB WD_BLACK SN850 NVMe SSD
• ASUS GeForce RTX3070 ROG Strix OC
• CORSAIR iCUE H100i RGB PRO XT
• Akasa Vegas TLX RGB LED, 120mm Fan
• Corsair TX850M PSU 850W/SMOD/G
• Phanteks Eclipse P500 Air Temp Blk DRGB

 

Peripherals:

• Razer Huntsman Mini
• Logitech G Pro Wireless Superlight
• Steelseries Arctis Pro Wireless

 

Monitor(s):

• Acer Nitro XV252Q F (390Hz)
• HP Omen X 27i (240Hz)

Upon researching this on the web, a lot of people seem to be having similar issues with this exact motherboard. Random freezes with no apparent triggers.

[sh10151]

2 minutes ago, Rockstar_TH said:

I know it has been a hot minute since you posted this but: Did you ever figure out the problem?

 

I’m currently having the same exact issue. Sometimes I’m able to play performance hungry games like Flight Sim 2020 for a week straight with no issues. But then the next week it freezes multiple times a day while I’m just playing Rocket League - or even doing nothing in the Windows environment. It’s so random…

 

I’ve tried everything from flashing/rolling back BIOS, updating BIOS. XMP on and off. Testing different RAM, PSU’s. Reinstalling Windows 10 (and 11) - even with no drivers installed. All sorts of analyzing tools and benchmarks. Literally nothing. I’m clueless and frustrated.

 

Hardware specs:

• ASUS ROG STRIX Z590-F GAMINGWIFI
• Intel Core i9-10900K Tray
• HyperX Fury RGB DDR4 3200MHz 32GB
• 1TB WD_BLACK SN850 NVMe SSD
• ASUS GeForce RTX3070 ROG Strix OC
• CORSAIR iCUE H100i RGB PRO XT
• Akasa Vegas TLX RGB LED, 120mm Fan
• Corsair TX850M PSU 850W/SMOD/G
• Phanteks Eclipse P500 Air Temp Blk DRGB

 

Peripherals:

• Razer Huntsman Mini
• Logitech G Pro Wireless Superligh
• Steelseries Arctis Pro Wireless

 

Monitor(s):

• Acer Nitro XV252Q F (390Hz)
• HP Omen X 27i (240Hz)

Upon researching this on the web, a lot of people seem to be having similar issues with this exact motherboard. Random freezes with no apparent triggers.

I left C States off in BIOS and I run performance mode in Windows and haven’t had an issue since. But it’s super annoying and I don’t know of anyone finding a true cause/fix. I shouldn’t have to do that to a normal non-OC’d CPU. It’s silly. 

[Rockstar_TH]

8 hours ago, iransofaraway said:

I left C States off in BIOS and I run performance mode in Windows and haven’t had an issue since. But it’s super annoying and I don’t know of anyone finding a true cause/fix. I shouldn’t have to do that to a normal non-OC’d CPU. It’s silly. 

Interesting… and I completely agree. It’s silly. I’ll try your temp fix and get back to you if I learn anything new about this!
 

Computers can be a bundle of annoyance sometimes… Take my previous "brand new"-build as an example: It had Motherboard compatibility issues; 2, 3 out of 5 case fans (sometimes all of them) would randomly stop spinning, making the system thermal throttle, and eventually shut itself off. After every restart, all the RGB settings I had applied on the system would delete themselves, and I had to make new profiles all over again. After a while I just couldn’t bother changing them, so I just ran stock settings.
 

…Pretty weird, right? What was the fix you might ask? Well, setting all the case fans to "PWM" instead of "DC" mode in BIOS. After that, not a single issue. RGB also worked as it should.

 

It was a known issue with that particular motherboard (Gigabyte Aorus Master Z390) and Noctua Fans. Gigabyte apparently did nothing to fix it, even though they were aware of the issue… so there’s that.

 

Could be a similar case with the Z590 + 10900K/11900K for all we know.

[DoctorNick]

On 6/27/2022 at 4:59 AM, iransofaraway said:

I left C States off in BIOS and I run performance mode in Windows and haven’t had an issue since. But it’s super annoying and I don’t know of anyone finding a true cause/fix. I shouldn’t have to do that to a normal non-OC’d CPU. It’s silly. 

You still running the XMP profile that is meant for 2x sticks and not 4? What about setting your memory timings yourself? Download Aida64, go to motherboard -> SPD. Check timings for both kits. Make sure kit 1 is in A2 B2, kit 2 is in A1 B1 on the motherboard. Write down/take a picture of the timings from the 2 kits. Choose primary timings for the kit with the highest timings.

Go to bios. Set DRAM frequency, dram voltage and timings manually. Leave VSSCA/O /system agent on auto.

[sh10151]

16 minutes ago, DoctorNick said:

You still running the XMP profile that is meant for 2x sticks and not 4? What about setting your memory timings yourself? Download Aida64, go to motherboard -> SPD. Check timings for both kits. Make sure kit 1 is in A2 B2, kit 2 is in A1 B1 on the motherboard. Write down/take a picture of the timings from the 2 kits. Choose primary timings for the kit with the highest timings.

Go to bios. Set DRAM frequency, dram voltage and timings manually. Leave VSSCA/O /system agent on auto.

Thanks! I’m running two sticks currently. XMP is off and I have everything memory related set to Auto. Should I still set timings manually? Do you think this will help with the C state stability junk im experiencing?

[DoctorNick]

45 minutes ago, iransofaraway said:

Thanks! I’m running two sticks currently. XMP is off and I have everything memory related set to Auto. Should I still set timings manually? Do you think this will help with the C state stability junk im experiencing?

Yes. C states should work at auto as well.

[sh10151]

Final update here. I don't know if the BIOS fixed it, or microcontroller updates, or drivers, or what. But I now went to default BIOS settings, with only these changed:

 

• CAM Enabled
• TJMax set to 100
• ABT Enabled

And Windows back to "Balanced" power option setting -- and I have not had a single crash/blue screen in weeks.

 

So there's hope I guess for anyone else that dealt with this cursed chipset/CPU.

[sh10151]

On 8/18/2021 at 7:57 AM, Skiiwee29 said:

Judging by your system components, my fear is the PSU. Seasonic units struggle with the Transient responses that a 3080 and 3090 GPU place on them and cause what you're experiencing including random shut downs. Other people on the forum are significantly more smarter than I am with this stuff so ill let them explain it more and either debunk it or confirm.

 

@LukeSavenije @IIIIIIIIII

So, I’ve returned. After a long time of stability, my system is now crashing hard (just straight reboot, no BSOD or anything). Happens inside MW2, but at weird times- like right after a match and it’s showing scores. I’m not sure if it’s a driver issue or what- since it only recently started happening. But I’m tempted to change out my power supply now, since a hard restart like this sure seems like a voltage issue. I thought Seasonic was one of

the best. May go to MicroCenter today and get a different PSU. Or maybe I’ll try running with Intel adaptive boost off. 
 

I’ve had so many issues with this rig. Sure seems like Z590 is a turd.