Microsoft provides clarifications on Win11 specs, says it is evaluating in adding 7th gen CPUs and Ryzen 1 series CPUs

[StDragon]

14 minutes ago, Kisai said:

These requirements however don't make sense, especially since 6th gen and 7th gen desktops are no less performative than 10th and 11th gen ones.

Two things.

First, you're comparing an older i7 with a newer i3. The fact the i3 is punching above its weight says a lot about IPC gains; impressive!

Secondly, as @LAwLz pointed out earlier in another thread, If you don't at least have a 7th gen or Zen+ CPU, performance is going to suck wind at 40% hit should Windows 11 make Memory Integrity (subset of Core Isolation) a mandatory feature. Because if they do, that's getting emulated on 6th gen and lower.

http://borec.ch/the-potential-performance-impact-of-device-guard-hvci/

[flibberdipper]

1 hour ago, Vishera said:

Hell,even Core 2 Quads are still good,they are way better than the crappy new Celeron processors that Intel are selling now days.

I wonder if I'm ever going to see the day where people stop beating off C2Q's like they're the greatest thing since seggs. My laptop's 580M is pretty much right on par with a Q6600 (actually a bit faster) and it's not better than modern Celerons. It's not even close to matching them, for that matter. Even something like a J4115 completely obliterates my i5, and that's the shittiest one from 2017. The shittiest ones from last year decimate even that Celeron. Don't blanket statement with "info" you pull from your rear quarters.

 

Not to mention that the i5 still has plenty of opportunities to choke even with a Linux distro installed. It was notably slower on Windows 10 lmao

[thewelshbrummie]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Why not lower? Well Windows 10 21H1, support stops at 5th gen Intel CPUs. So, I am assuming a transition of dropping older CPUs as time goes on, and new CPUs are added.

The problem is that this applied all the way back to the original 1507 Win 10 release, so that 4th Gen Intel CPUs were never supported by Microsoft, despite being 2 years old when Win 10 launched... and Asus, in the case of my Z87 motherboard, supplying full Win 10 drivers for chipset/wifi/sound etc. while they're clearly different builds from the Win 8 drivers.

 

 

The key is whether there is a workaround. I have 2 Skylake based systems that won't take Win 11 which I wasn't expecting to be an issue. It's still too early to tell but it remains a poor look for Microsoft right now to not be specific as to whether installs on older hardware are allowed or even considered at this early stage.

Just now, flibberdipper said:

I wonder if I'm ever going to see the day where people stop beating off C2Q's like they're the greatest thing since seggs. My laptop's 580M is pretty much right on par with a Q6600 (actually a bit faster) and it's not better than modern Celerons. It's not even close to matching them, for that matter. Even something like a J4115 completely obliterates my i5.

They certainly lasted longer than the dual cores did, as a LTT video showed around a year ago when they bought a 2nd hand PC for around $80 - going with the quad made a big difference.

 

That said my Haswell build was night and day faster, and that's including the fact that both builds have 1,600MHz DDR3 and initially tested before I started over with Win8 on an SSD. Remember that the C2Qs were effectively 2x dual core Conroe Cores in one package (Kentsfield for the Q6600) - remove the IHS and you'd see 2 dies. Even the L2 cache came in 2 pools, one for each die (or pair of cores), something that all Core i CPUs didn't have as they were quad core on a single die so have a single cache pool.

 

Really by the time Win 10 came around they were, in my opinion, EOL. They certainly didn't last as well as Sandy Bridge CPUs have.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Vishera said:

Hell,even Core 2 Quads are still good,they are way better than the crappy new Celeron processors that Intel are selling now days.

No. I have a Core i7 930, MLC based SSD with DRAM, DDR3 6GB of RAM, GeForce 680, and Windows 11 doesn't run well on my system. Windows 10 runs fine, Windows 11 takes more performance to run.

It's not unusable, but annoying to use.

[BondiBlue]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

No. I have a Core i7 930, MLC based SSD with DRAM, DDR3 6GB of RAM, GeForce 680, and Windows 11 doesn't run well on my system. Windows 10 runs fine, Windows 11 takes more performance to run.

It's not unusable, but annoying to use.

Honestly, I think the performance differences between Windows 10 and Windows 11 just depend on the hardware. I'm running Windows 11 on a Late 2013 MacBook Pro 13", and Windows 11 runs WAY better on this hardware than Windows 10 ever did. It's running so well that despite the trackpad being terrible in Windows (not a fault of the OS), I've been using Windows far more than macOS on that laptop lately. When it had Windows 10 I only used it for essential things. 

[GoodBytes]

11 minutes ago, BondiBlue said:

Honestly, I think the performance differences between Windows 10 and Windows 11 just depend on the hardware. I'm running Windows 11 on a Late 2013 MacBook Pro 13", and Windows 11 runs WAY better on this hardware than Windows 10 ever did. It's running so well that despite the trackpad being terrible in Windows (not a fault of the OS), I've been using Windows far more than macOS on that laptop lately. When it had Windows 10 I only used it for essential things. 

I was more pointing on the fact that Core 2 Quad is good for running Windows 11. 

The OS definitely designed for more modern CPUs. That said, perhaps a Sandy Bridge CPU (i5/i7 2000 series) might do the trick. But at least for my CPU, if things continue in that path (eg: doesn't get improved), install Win11 would not be something I would recommend on such old specs. 

 

Later today, I'll try on my Surface Pro 3, that system has a Core i5 U series 4th gen. 

[BondiBlue]

4 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I was more pointing on the fact that Core 2 Quad is good for running Windows 11. 

The OS definitely designed for more modern CPUs. That said, perhaps a Sandy Bridge CPU (i5/i7 2000 series) might do the trick. But at least for my CPU, if things continue in that path (eg: doesn't get improved), install Win11 would not be something I would recommend on such old specs. 

 

Later today, I'll try on my Surface Pro 3, that system has a Core i5 U series 4th gen. 

I've yet to dig out any of my spare Core 2 Duo machines, but I plan to do so in the next few weeks and see how well they run Windows 11. I'll let you know if I find anything different than you. 

[linkboy]

26 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

No. I have a Core i7 930, MLC based SSD with DRAM, DDR3 6GB of RAM, GeForce 680, and Windows 11 doesn't run well on my system. Windows 10 runs fine, Windows 11 takes more performance to run.

It's not unusable, but annoying to use.

I'm running it on a P50 with the following specs

 

• I7 6700HQ @ 2.9ghz
• 32GB DDR4 RAM @ 1063mhz
• 1TB m.2 NVME SSD (WD Black SN750
• Intel HD 530 GPU
• Nvidia Quadro m1000m 

I haven't really gotten to really test my install, as I'm at work, but it's been running just as fine as Windows 10 did.

 

I've had a couple of Taskbar crashes after the initial upgrade, but its been pretty stable since.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

2 hours ago, sof006 said:

1600 AF is based on Zen+

I litterally said that.

 

4 hours ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

No, zen is first gen, it says r2000 is supported, that's zen+, r1000 is zen, 1600af is a r1000 that uses a r1000 memory controler, but the core of a 2600

as i said, the 1600af is a r1000 part, it uses a memory controler, which is why its not a 2600, but it uses the exact same core as a 2600 does.

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, StDragon said:

Two things.

First, you're comparing an older i7 with a newer i3. The fact the i3 is punching above its weight says a lot about IPC gains; impressive!

That was the point. The high end i7 part of a 6th gen is still higher than the i3 10th gen, both of them being 4 core parts. I was being generous and not comparing the laptop parts.

 

2 hours ago, StDragon said:

Secondly, as @LAwLz pointed out earlier in another thread, If you don't at least have a 7th gen or Zen+ CPU, performance is going to suck wind at 40% hit should Windows 11 make Memory Integrity (subset of Core Isolation) a mandatory feature. Because if they do, that's getting emulated on 6th gen and lower.

http://borec.ch/the-potential-performance-impact-of-device-guard-hvci/

That's the thing, there is no reason to enable this as a mandatory feature on an OS upgrade. An new OEM system, sure. 

 

[StDragon]

3 minutes ago, Kisai said:

That's the thing, there is no reason to enable this as a mandatory feature on an OS upgrade. An new OEM system, sure. 

I agree. It's not like Memory Integrity is currently being used if you're using Windows 10 anyways unless you have a newer system and it's been enabled.

 

And that may be how Microsoft handles this; by allowing people to upgrade so long as you've at least met the TPM 2.0 requirement. And if the CPU is 7th gen or Zen+, go head and also enable Memory Integrity as a mandatory security requirement; it's not like they will suffer a performance penalty unlike those with 6th and lower.

[Arika]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

No. I have a Core i7 930, MLC based SSD with DRAM, DDR3 6GB of RAM, GeForce 680, and Windows 11 doesn't run well on my system. Windows 10 runs fine, Windows 11 takes more performance to run.

It's not unusable, but annoying to use.

Nuh uh!!!!

 

W11 is just a UI update to Windows 10!!!!1!!!!1!@

[SpikeSpiegel]

6 hours ago, steelo said:

Out of curiosity, is a ryzen 5 1600 af considered to be 1st gen or 2nd?

1st Gen same as Ryzen 5 1600

[Blademaster91]

The security features should be left up to the user on an upgrade, Microsoft could put up a warning during the upgrade telling users on Intel 6th gen or older of a potential security risk or they may experience less performance.

There shouldn't be an exclusion on Intel 6th gen either, those are still decent CPUs, but I can understand if OEM installs are limited.

[D13H4RD]

3 hours ago, StDragon said:

If you don't at least have a 7th gen or Zen+ CPU, performance is going to suck wind at 40% hit should Windows 11 make Memory Integrity (subset of Core Isolation) a mandatory feature. Because if they do, that's getting emulated on 6th gen and lower.

So THAT'S the "experience" bit??? 

 

If so...why didn't they say so earlier 

[SpikeSpiegel]

16 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

The security features should be left up to the user on an upgrade, Microsoft could put up a warning during the upgrade telling users on Intel 6th gen or older of a potential security risk or they may experience less performance.

There shouldn't be an exclusion on Intel 6th gen either, those are still decent CPUs, but I can understand if OEM installs are limited.

I wish they would support my work's laptops which are HP Elitebook 8460p's with Intel i5 2520m's and Radeon 6470m's  We use them a regularly.  Looks like we're going to sell them off or have them recycled + buy new ones which are going t cost an arm and a leg.  Since we had these since 2012.

[Shin-Gouki]

And the backpedaling begins...... 

[Shin-Gouki]

10 minutes ago, CalintzJerevinan said:

I wish they would support my work's laptops which are HP Elitebook 8460p's with Intel i5 2520m's and Radeon 6470m's  We use them a regularly.  Looks like we're going to sell them off or have them recycled + buy new ones which are going t cost an arm and a leg.  Since we had these since 2012.

I have a Laptop with a Skylake i7 6700HQ and an 960M that is still pretty damn capable. Microsoft is just trying to pull an Apple and force people into new hardware so they can sell more copies of Win 11

[SpikeSpiegel]

4 minutes ago, Shin-Gouki said:

I have a Laptop with a Skylake i7 6700HQ and an 960M that is still pretty damn capable. Microsoft is just trying to pull an Apple and force people into new hardware so they can sell more copies of Win 11

Our HP Elitebook's are quite good for our work place.  Plus I love the glass track pad and fingerprint scanner.

[linkboy]

11 minutes ago, Shin-Gouki said:

I have a Laptop with a Skylake i7 6700HQ and an 960M that is still pretty damn capable. Microsoft is just trying to pull an Apple and force people into new hardware so they can sell more copies of Win 11

 

My ThinkPad P50 has a

• 2.6ghz i7 6700HQ 
• 32GB DDR4 RAM 
• 1TB m.2 NVME SSD 
• Nvidia Quadro m1000m GPU 

and it's been nothing short of amazing in the year I've had it. Hands down the best computer I've ever owned. Honestly, it's more computer then I actually need, but I love the upgradability and build quality. 

 

[Kisai]

43 minutes ago, linkboy said:

 

My ThinkPad P50 has a

• 2.6ghz i7 6700HQ 
• 32GB DDR4 RAM 
• 1TB m.2 NVME SSD 
• Nvidia Quadro m1000m GPU 

and it's been nothing short of amazing in the year I've had it. Hands down the best computer I've ever owned. Honestly, it's more computer then I actually need, but I love the upgradability and build quality. 

 

Similar Dell Precision 7700/7500 series are also still capable. Heck you can upgrade the 1.2TPM's on these to 2.0.

 

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, CalintzJerevinan said:

I wish they would support my work's laptops which are HP Elitebook 8460p's with Intel i5 2520m's and Radeon 6470m's  We use them a regularly.  Looks like we're going to sell them off or have them recycled + buy new ones which are going t cost an arm and a leg.  Since we had these since 2012.

Are those using TPM? I think Intel Sandy Bridge should be capable since they run Windows 10 fine.

[SpikeSpiegel]

4 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Are those using TPM? I think Intel Sandy Bridge should be capable since they run Windows 10 fine.

They have TPM 1.2 

[Vishera]

4 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

No. I have a Core i7 930, MLC based SSD with DRAM, DDR3 6GB of RAM, GeForce 680, and Windows 11 doesn't run well on my system. Windows 10 runs fine, Windows 11 takes more performance to run.

It's not unusable, but annoying to use.

If a Pentium 4 runs better than your first gen i7 then something is not right with your configuration.

 

[Nowak]

Honestly it seems pretty trashy that Kaby Lake and Zen aren't supported, since Kaby Lake-M and Zen CPUs in general are just barely 4 years old.