Why do people call the Mac Pro expensive?!

[LAwLz]

The problem I've usually seen is that 99% of builds people claim destroy the Mac Pro are nothing more than gaming rigs.

 

A 4770k, non-ECC RAM and a 780 or two aren't quite the same in my eyes. A Titan would be more understandable, given its sort of hybrid nature.

Well yes... There are ignorant people on both sides. I think it's better to be correct for the wrong reasons than to be completely incorrect though.

[minimalist]

People also forget that you're paying for the innovation. If you're going to build a pc make it as small, compact, and good looking as the Mac Pro. Oh wait, you can't. You just overlook that for convenience and give some BS argument how you don't like it. 9/10 people would build a pc that looks just like a Mac Pro if they could. The same applies to an iMac. People always overlook that you're paying for the design as well. It would be just as much if not more if you built it on your own.

Pretty much every PC vs Mac build I've ever seen is like comparing apples to oranges because you have some ugly ass case going against an imac or Mac Pro. If you want it to be fair, you have to build the case or all in one case to look like a Mac yourself and list the price for that as well.

[LAwLz]

People also forget that you're paying for the innovation.

Ahahahaha

Stop... Haha... Stop you're killing me...

It's not April 1 anymore. Haha...

 

But seriously. I think the Mac Pro looks ugly, and the form factor is terrible. It is a good example of form over function. If you like that then fine, but don't try to say that the design is actually good for anything other than looks (and it looks like a trash can).

[Leonard]

I think that the Mac Pro is about the only computer for extreme professionals who need this amount of power.

^^^^^ Is why people say it is soooooooo expensive. Most people are not professionals and just want to social media, listen to music, watch movies and porn and you do not need 12 cores to do those things. So paying for 12 cores to do those things when you can pay a fraction to for what you need will seem outrageous.

 

I personally find anything MAC branded is over priced. 

[JupiteL]

Stereotype, what else? This is internet in a nutshell.

[minimalist]

Ahahahaha

Stop... Haha... Stop you're killing me...

It's not April 1 anymore. Haha...

But seriously. I think the Mac Pro looks ugly, and the form factor is terrible. It is a good example of form over function. If you like that then fine, but don't try to say that the design is actually good for anything other than looks (and it looks like a trash can).

You are bringing something subjective into an otherwise objective comparison and at that point you can't really have a serious debate anymore.

This is exactly what I was talking about on page one, and why you can't reason with Apple fanboys.

Okay so apparently you're a child based on your response so I have a feeling this will be my only response to you. It doesn't matter if you think it looks ugly. If you're going to make a video or post about pc build vs mac you have to take into consideration the build of the cases of each Mac. You have to build that or buy something that looks similar to it and incorporate that cost as well.

It's also super ironic how you spew all of this Mac fanboy garbage when it's abundantly clear that you sit at home with your hand down your pants staring at pc builds online. You're clearly in a tizzy and very hurt by this statement about Macs. Why so sensitive? Are you that insecure?

[LAwLz]

Okay so apparently you're a child based on your response so I have a feeling this will be my only response to you. It doesn't matter if you think it looks ugly. If you're going to make a video or post about pc build vs mac you have to take into consideration the build of the cases of each Mac. You have to build that or buy something that looks similar to it and incorporate that cost as well.

It's also super ironic how you spew all of this Mac fanboy garbage when it's abundantly clear that you sit at home with your hand down your pants staring at pc builds online. You're clearly in a tizzy and very hurt by this statement about Macs. Why so sensitive? Are you that insecure?

Isn't it a bit ironic that you say I am childish, yet you devote most of your post to personal attacks and ignoring my arguments?

I suggest you read my first post in the thread and then read the second part of the post you just replied to again.

Sure, the Mac Pro is not expensive, if you compare it to a Mac Pro... It is expensive if you compare it to what you could get for the same amount of money though. This is exactly what I was talking about on page 1 of the thread. Even if I were to post a build better in every single way you would still just go "yeah but it doesn't have as many Thunderbolt ports" or "sure but that case is steel and not aluminum" or something along those lines. I am saying the Mac Pro is bad for the price, and you want me to prove it. If I am saying the Mac Pro is bad then I shouldn't have to post a build which is essentially a Mac Pro, because I have already said it is bad. What I should do instead is post a build for the same price and then list the benefits and drawbacks of that build, but then you will whine because it doesn't look like a Mac Pro, or doesn't use the same components. My point is that WHY should I build a computer which is similar to the Mac Pro if I think the Mac Pro is bad? Why impose the same restrictions the Mac Pro has on my build if I don't have to? When I compare a Mac vs a custom PC I compare what you can get for the same amount of money, not how similar to the Mac I can get my build while still having it cheaper, because I don't want a computer similar to the Mac.

[That Norwegian Guy]

I really don't get why people call the Mac Pro expensive

 

It's simple, people are herd animals and once they've had an opinion etched into their brain for long enough they become a broken record.

[minimalist]

Isn't it a bit ironic that you say I am childish, yet you devote most of your post to personal attacks and ignoring my arguments?

Most of my post was a personal attack?  There was one sentence that was.  Nice try.

 

I suggest you read my first post in the thread and then read the second part of the post you just replied to again.

Sure, the Mac Pro is not expensive, if you compare it to a Mac Pro... It is expensive if you compare it to what you could get for the same amount of money though.

Again, you're wrong.  People WANT form.  That's why Mac Pro's sell.  Just because you don't want it and build your own completely ignoring it doesn't mean you're getting better value.

 

This is exactly what I was talking about on page 1 of the thread. Even if I were to post a build better in every single way you would still just go "yeah but it doesn't have as many Thunderbolt ports" or "sure but that case is steel and not aluminum" or something along those lines. I am saying the Mac Pro is bad for the price, and you want me to prove it. If I am saying the Mac Pro is bad then I shouldn't have to post a build which is essentially a Mac Pro, because I have already said it is bad. What I should do instead is post a build for the same price and then list the benefits and drawbacks of that build, but then you will whine because it doesn't look like a Mac Pro, or doesn't use the same components.

You can do that all you want but it's beyond me why you build something and then compare it to what you think is bad.  You're still making an apples and oranges comparison.  Your build is for you.  A Mac Pro is for the masses, and they buy them.  If you sold yours and it went against the Mac Pro, guess which one would sell more.  Here's a clue...it's not yours.

 

My point is that WHY should I build a computer which is similar to the Mac Pro if I think the Mac Pro is bad? Why impose the same restrictions the Mac Pro has on my build if I don't have to? When I compare a Mac vs a custom PC I compare what you can get for the same amount of money, not how similar to the Mac I can get my build while still having it cheaper, because I don't want a computer similar to the Mac.

Because you want to compare it to the Mac Pro?  It's like someone buying a Jeep and then you saying for that amount of money I can build a car that's faster, and handles better when racing through the streets.  It makes 0 sense.  It's a not a comparison.  It's a subjective opinion disguised as a comparison because what you want is different from a Jeep and for some reason you think what you want is better than what other people want.

 

It's amazing how people fail to grasp what Apple computers are.  People constantly compare the parts inside and always leave out what's outside and ignore that that costs money and people pay for it.  People would rather that.  That's why Macs sell so well.  People want something that looks good.  Building something that completely ignores that and then comparing it to a Mac is fucking retarded.  

[Victorious Secret]

I have dabbled in both, I owned a older Mac Pro too. Shit, if I knew I was going to end up building my own PC again I would've kept it as a case cause that thing is gorgeous! 

But here are the facts. If you price out a workstation PC and a Mac Pro, its either going to be a marginal win for the Mac or a tie. 

 

People, by people I mean grown ups who aren't 12 year olds picking sides, don't give a fuck. They will pick whatever system/OS they are comfortable using. Mac, PC; do you really think someone who can justify 10 grand on a Mac or PC for work really gives a shit what they are using, so long as it works? 

And here are the simple facts; Macs just work. The downtime is less. The customer service (this matters) is a hell of a lot better, everything is integrated to just work. Sure, we PC guys hate that its hard to change out Mac components, but the guys who make enough money to warranty that much expense really don't care. They want to buy something and have it work out of the box and continue working without having to haul the IT guy in to fix something. 

 

I know you kids don't understand this concept, but downtime in a professional environment sucks. No one needs that. So...do you pick a Mac that comes with some of the best consumer and business grade customer service I've ever (and a lot of people can back this up) experienced, or do you build a PC and then wish you could shoot yourself when something goes wrong and you really can't afford to have any more downtime? For some people, the Mac makes sense in that scenario. For others, the PC makes sense. 

 

 

The only idiots who say Mac Pros are overpriced are the neckbeard gamers who think a Mac Pro is for gaming, and thus throw out stupid shit like 'Oh you can use a 780 Ti or R9 290 with a i7 4820K and a crazy ROG motherboard". Actually start pricing out what a workstation PC is going to run you compared to what a workstation Mac runs you, you'll see just how even it really is. 

 

 

And children, realize this; any professional that gets paid enough for their work is not shoving consumer goods in their computers. They are using ECC memory. They are going for server grade hardware. They are picking Quadros or Firepros. They are picking CPUs that can take the abuse of rendering and everything else. They are not gaming on these computers. They don't use these computers for fun. They use them to make money. 

[LAwLz]

Most of my post was a personal attack?  There was one sentence that was.  Nice try.

Yep, most of your post was just personal attacks. First you call me a child then talk about how I masturbate over PC builds, then you call me sensitive and insecure. A little more than just once sentence.

 

 

Again, you're wrong.  People WANT form.  That's why Mac Pro's sell.  Just because you don't want it and build your own completely ignoring it doesn't mean you're getting better value.

That is very subjective and which is why I ignore it. I like to stick to objective things. Once you start pulling the "but I think X is worth Y so therefore it is better value" you can't have a serious conversation anymore. I could say the Cooler Master sticker you get with their case is worth 1000 dollars to me, and therefore it is good value. That does not mean it is good value to someone else though, or an objective measurement of how valuable something is. That is basically what you are doing right now. You are saying the Mac Pro is worth it because you like the looks of the Mac Pro. That might make it good value for you, but not in general.

The Mac Pro isn't selling well by the way. Sadly I don't have any solid sales numbers but you just have to look at OS market share to see that it is not selling all that well (especially since the iMac and Macbooks are far more popular).

 

 

You can do that all you want but it's beyond me why you build something and then compare it to what you think is bad.  You're still making an apples and oranges comparison.  Your build is for you.  A Mac Pro is for the masses, and they buy them.  If you sold yours and it went against the Mac Pro, guess which one would sell more.  Here's a clue...it's not yours.

It's not an apples vs oranges comparison if both computers costs about the same and will be used for the same things.

The Mac Pro is not for the masses, not even close. They are for a fairly niche audience.

Resell value does not indicate how good the price:performance is, or even how good something is. To make an example, the photography "Andy Warhol", taken by Robert Mapplethorpe, was sold for 643,200 dollars. Does that mean it is better than some other painting just because the resell value is higher? No it does not. Also, why would you sell your entire computer? I am not sure about you, but I have slowly been upgrading and selling parts from my computer for quite some time now. I upgrade it one or two components at a time, and can usually sell my old components for a decent chunk of money. I would get far less money if I sold it as a whole, but I don't see any logical reason to do so.

You are yet again applying limitations to the custom PC just because the Mac pro has these limitations.

 

 

Because you want to compare it to the Mac Pro?  It's like someone buying a Jeep and then you saying for that amount of money I can build a car that's faster, and handles better when racing through the streets.  It makes 0 sense.  It's a not a comparison.  It's a subjective opinion disguised as a comparison because what you want is different from a Jeep and for some reason you think what you want is better than what other people want.

The difference is that the Mac Pro and a custom computer can be used for exactly the same things. The only one trying to inject subjective things into the conversation is you. I am trying to make an objective comparison and you keep bringing up subjective things like how much you think the looks of the Mac Pro is worth. if you want the mac Pro for the looks then sure, go ahead and get it if you want. Don't try to argue that it is good value compared to the kinds of computers you could get for the same price though. You still don't seem to have understood my point. I suggest you reread it, and this time read it carefully and try to be as unbiased as possible.

 

 

It's amazing how people fail to grasp what Apple computers are.  People constantly compare the parts inside and always leave out what's outside and ignore that that costs money and people pay for it.  People would rather that.  That's why Macs sell so well.  People want something that looks good.  Building something that completely ignores that and then comparing it to a Mac is fucking retarded.  

I still don't understand where you got the idea that the Mac Pro is selling really well from. Like I said before, if you want it for the looks then go ahead. Just remember that Looks are 99% subjective and can therefore not be used as an argument for why it is good value. If you want to talk value, bring in arguments based on objective measurements.

[LAwLz]

And here are the simple facts; Macs just work. The downtime is less. The customer service (this matters) is a hell of a lot better, everything is integrated to just work. Sure, we PC guys hate that its hard to change out Mac components, but the guys who make enough money to warranty that much expense really don't care. They want to buy something and have it work out of the box and continue working without having to haul the IT guy in to fix something.

First of all, I would like to see some evidence of your claim that Macs have lower downtime (how would you even measure such a thing?). Secondly, just because you can afford it does not mean you should get it, that is called having more money than sense.

I could easily afford a Mac Pro, but I won't get one. Why? Because it doesn't suit my needs and I could get something better for less. Just because you can afford something doesn't mean you stop caring. Let me ask you this, why do you think the studios (which aren't that many) that use Mac computers (such as South Park Studios) still has Avid for all the really heavy lifting? How come they don't make a cluster of Mac Pros? Because that would be much more expensive and wouldn't "just werk" as well as Avid's solution does.

 

Baby Duck Syndrome is a real thing, and it is the reason why many people don't use the competitor's products (this goes both ways). That does not make one objectively better than the other though. Again, this is why I try to stay as far away from any subjective thing when arguing about Macs.

I am not trying to say nobody should get a Mac Pro by the way. You can pick something for subjective reasons if you want, but it does not make it objectively better. That is my point.

 

The rest of your post is mostly about insulting anyone who disagrees with you, or based on statements you haven't back up yet so I will ignore those parts for now.

[Misanthrope]

I have a better answer than most: Because Apple fans threat this as a consumer grade product and Apple is (maybe even intentionally) vague about it and certainly doesn't actively dissuades the notion of this being bought as a consumer device.

I won't argue whenever or not the price premium vs other similar workstations are worth it. Professional workstations are weird sometimes what would seem crazy to us (double or triple price for just 20% performance increase at best) works out very differently (i.e. you have to pay your designers USD 120 per hour therefore 20% faster work saves you a hell of a lot of money easily making up for the initial investment). No the problem I have is when people that will NEVER need this kind of performance go ahead and get this machines for bragging rights. Yeah you have a fancy trash can computer you're gonna use to watch porn, play Simcity and occasionally edit some meme pictures for 9gag, big deal you stupid hipster.

[minimalist]

Yep, most of your post was just personal attacks. First you call me a child then talk about how I masturbate over PC builds, then you call me sensitive and insecure. A little more than just once sentence.

 

 

That is very subjective and which is why I ignore it. I like to stick to objective things. Once you start pulling the "but I think X is worth Y so therefore it is better value" you can't have a serious conversation anymore. I could say the Cooler Master sticker you get with their case is worth 1000 dollars to me, and therefore it is good value. That does not mean it is good value to someone else though, or an objective measurement of how valuable something is. That is basically what you are doing right now. You are saying the Mac Pro is worth it because you like the looks of the Mac Pro. That might make it good value for you, but not in general.

The Mac Pro isn't selling well by the way. Sadly I don't have any solid sales numbers but you just have to look at OS market share to see that it is not selling all that well (especially since the iMac and Macbooks are far more popular).

 

 

It's not an apples vs oranges comparison if both computers costs about the same and will be used for the same things.

The Mac Pro is not for the masses, not even close. They are for a fairly niche audience.

Resell value does not indicate how good the price:performance is, or even how good something is. To make an example, the photography "Andy Warhol", taken by Robert Mapplethorpe, was sold for 643,200 dollars. Does that mean it is better than some other painting just because the resell value is higher? No it does not. Also, why would you sell your entire computer? I am not sure about you, but I have slowly been upgrading and selling parts from my computer for quite some time now. I upgrade it one or two components at a time, and can usually sell my old components for a decent chunk of money. I would get far less money if I sold it as a whole, but I don't see any logical reason to do so.

You are yet again applying limitations to the custom PC just because the Mac pro has these limitations.

 

 

The difference is that the Mac Pro and a custom computer can be used for exactly the same things. The only one trying to inject subjective things into the conversation is you. I am trying to make an objective comparison and you keep bringing up subjective things like how much you think the looks of the Mac Pro is worth. if you want the mac Pro for the looks then sure, go ahead and get it if you want. Don't try to argue that it is good value compared to the kinds of computers you could get for the same price though. You still don't seem to have understood my point. I suggest you reread it, and this time read it carefully and try to be as unbiased as possible.

 

 

I still don't understand where you got the idea that the Mac Pro is selling really well from. Like I said before, if you want it for the looks then go ahead. Just remember that Looks are 99% subjective and can therefore not be used as an argument for why it is good value. If you want to talk value, bring in arguments based on objective measurements.

You keep calling the looks of Mac's subjective and are stating how irrelevant it is in terms of cost of a build.  I hate to break it to you but tons of R&D is done to come up with their designs. Guess what, that's built into the cost of their product and anyone with half of a brain knows that.  The cost of their materials is too.  It's okay, you keep calling it subjective and preach how objective you are.  You're just as much of a "PC Masterrace fanboy" as these so called "Mac fanboys."  It's why you move the goal posts when design is taken into consideration.  The one thing that truly separates Macs and you willingly ignore it because you think it's "subjective" which is complete bullshit and it's only subjective to you.  Enjoy your irrational Mac hate.  I'll just be over here getting ready to drop all of my Apple products and joining another group of people while feeling ashamed and embarrassed about people like you who are so blinded by the reality of the marketplace and just hate on Apple because...they're Apple.

[sand0oski]

Meh I don't think it's overpriced for what it is.  Comparable Dell Precision workstations and HP workstations cost about the same.  But in an office environment they really don't care about how much the computer costs.  Anandtech did a good article about all this back in December and compared the Mac Pro to HP and Lenovo workstations, and the Mac Pro was actually a good deal.  You could build something similar for cheaper, but that's not an option for businesses.   I personally use both PCs and Macs at home, so I can respect both options.  I prefer to build my own computers because I get more for my money.  The Mac Pro is selling well though, it sold out when it was released and they haven't been able to build them fast enough to keep up with demand ever since. 

[LAwLz]

You keep calling the looks of Mac's subjective and are stating how irrelevant it is in terms of cost of a build.  I hate to break it to you but tons of R&D is done to come up with their designs. Guess what, that's built into the cost of their product and anyone with half of a brain knows that.  The cost of their materials is too.  It's okay, you keep calling it subjective and preach how objective you are.  You're just as much of a "PC Masterrace fanboy" as these so called "Mac fanboys."  It's why you move the goal posts when design is taken into consideration.  The one thing that truly separates Macs and you willingly ignore it because you think it's "subjective" which is complete bullshit and it's only subjective to you.  Enjoy your irrational Mac hate.  I'll just be over here getting ready to drop all of my Apple products and joining another group of people while feeling ashamed and embarrassed about people like you who are so blinded by the reality of the marketplace and just hate on Apple because...they're Apple.

But the looks of it is subjective. Some like it and some don't. If you are willing to pay extra for that then good for you, but it isn't an objective reason why it's good (or even worth the cost). Please link me to the posts where I moved the goal post.

In case you didn't see it, I am not hating on Apple just because they are Apple. I have explained how and why I don't think the Mac Pro is good (I also got a ton of other examples such as the crappy cooling and the need to rely on external stuff all the time) and you keep coming back to "but the design bla bla bla". I really don't see how I am the fanboy here. Do you understand what "subjective" means? You can't say that something is "subjective only to you". Design is always subjective, and like I said before it's OK to get it because of that if you want, just don't pretend like it's objectively good value.

[-iSynthesis]

I really don't get why people call the Mac Pro expensive... It's actually the cheapest Mac in existence... You pay a lot of money for it, but you get up to a 12-Core Xeon and FirePro D700 (W9000 PCIe version). The PCIe SSD and ECC RAM don't cost a small amount of money either... Try to build a Mac Pro by yourself, with the same aucoustics and size...

 

Over here in The Netherlands you pay this for all the highest end Mac Pro build by yourself (without case and cooling):

 

Xeon E5-2697 - 2.400

2x AMD FirePro W9000 - 6.700

64 GB ECC RAM 1866Mhz - 880

OWC Mercury Accelsior E2 960 GB was the closest I could find for SSD's - 1.000

And I couldn't find a motherboard which could handle this all with six Thunderbolt 2 ports and four USB 3 ports.

 

Total: 10.980 without motherboard and OS

Mac Pro: 9.599

 

I think that the Mac Pro is about the only computer for extreme professionals who need this amount of power.

Because people hate on apple, then apple releases something fairly cheap compared to a pc and it gets hated because people dont look at the specs and the actual prices of the compontents

[Puppet]

Hell, it's even possible to install the FirePro drivers on your Radeon card, so with that you can save literally thousands of dollars.

 

Will that give you 10-bit color output?

[Victorious Secret]

Will that give you 10-bit color output?

:lol:

 

It really is sad isn't it? 

 

Yes, if you want a general use computer you can build a cheaper (but more powerful PC) than you can a iMac or Mac Pro. Thats just fact. 

 

But workstation? 

 

My kids label still applies, as these guys have never stepped foot in a professional environment. Regardless of Mac or PC; these computers and their parts are never cheap. Xeons and Firepros/Quadros/Teslas and ECC memory and co-processors and anything else I'm forgetting; this stuff isn't for playing around. Its for work. These guys make money. They need the best kit to let them get as much work done so they can go make money.

 

I don't know a single professional developer or artist who says "You know, I could avoid these Quadros and get a 780 Ti, those have decent enough CUDA performance and then I can also play games too". Just no. 

 

Guys who can expense 10 grand in workstation kit can probably afford a proper general use computer that doesn't spend time doing brutal rendering or calculations. 

 

And Firepros are validated to hell and back to work constantly and at full loads for a long time. Thats why these guys use cards like that. Cause its assured that they will take the abuse. You pay for that kind of validation. To them, it is peace of mind knowing that this one piece of hardware was designed to do exactly what they need it to do. 

[minimalist]

But the looks of it is subjective. Some like it and some don't. If you are willing to pay extra for that then good for you, but it isn't an objective reason why it's good (or even worth the cost). Please link me to the posts where I moved the goal post.

In case you didn't see it, I am not hating on Apple just because they are Apple. I have explained how and why I don't think the Mac Pro is good (I also got a ton of other examples such as the crappy cooling and the need to rely on external stuff all the time) and you keep coming back to "but the design bla bla bla". I really don't see how I am the fanboy here. Do you understand what "subjective" means? You can't say that something is "subjective only to you". Design is always subjective, and like I said before it's OK to get it because of that if you want, just don't pretend like it's objectively good value.

 

You're hiding behind subjective and labeling things aren't subjective.  You're missing my point about the cost of design entirely. 

[ultimatemythbuster]

I think that it is expensive in terms of what most people use a computer for.  If you are someone that needs all the features and power that the Mac Pro can provide, then it is a reasonable choice.  I would personally build a PC with the specs that I need, but not everyone likes building their own machine.

[Lil Chillbil]

Its been over and discussed time and again, there are two types of people who need to shut up 

 

 

People who say they can build a pc for less are retarded, but people who say pcs can't even compete are retarded, people who convince mummy and daddy to buy them one for school are retarded, people who argue over formfactor are retarded, anyone who believes that people at pixar are gonna spend the time to build a pc/learn how to maintain one are retarded. The only people who aren't retarded frankly are those who use the macs and just do their thing, and those who use pc and can acknowledge that the mac pro has its place.

[Tr3vor]

I'm pretty sure that people using a high end workstation don't care about the looks. They probably care more about stability and performance than "does it look like a trash can". 

 

Just because a case design is unique, it doesn't make it better or more desirable. 

 

#thousandposts

[LAwLz]

Will that give you 10-bit color output?

I am not sure. Some say it does and some say it doesn't. Some have even been able to get 10bit working with the regular Radeon drivers with some registry hacks. I know that both AMD's and Nvidia's cards have supported 10bit color in D3D for ages now (Nvidia started supporting it with the 200 series) but sadly the software isn't there yet in Windows. It seems like 10 bit color is supported in Linux for GeForce cards.

A person from AMD also held an AMA on Tom's Hardware where this was said:

 

Q. I know that workstation class cards are there for a reason, but will we see any of the W-series limited features to make their way down to the Radeon series?

 

A. There are examples of workstation features that exist in Radeon: 10-bit color support, double precision compute and more. But, by in large, their feature sets are distinct as dictated by the respective libraries of software run on these products.

I don't see any hardware reason why it wouldn't work.

 

10 bit color is kind of a mess though, even with fully supported hardware and software. Some Adobe programs supports it, and that's basically it. Also, 10 bit does not give you a wider color gamut, just finer steps between colors, so you will at best see a bit less banding (which will appear again in any lossy encoding) and that's pretty much it.

 

 

 

 

You're hiding behind subjective and labeling things aren't subjective.  You're missing my point about the cost of design entirely. 

Nope I am not hiding behind behind anything subjective, unlike you. Please, look up what subjective means and you will hopefully understand what I have been saying over and over again.

I am going to ask you again, please link top the posts where I moved the goal post. You can't accuse me of moving the goal post and then refuse to explain where it was moved.

 

I am not missing your point about the design. Yes Apple spent money designing it, so what? How does that make it more valuable to consumers? Cooler Master might have spent a lot of money designing their stickers, but that does not mean the cases they include a sticker with becomes better value.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that people using a high end workstation don't care about the looks. They probably care more about stability and performance than "does it look like a trash can". 

 

Just because a case design is unique, it doesn't make it better or more desirable.

Exactly

Nice to see that not everyone on this forum is "well it looks nice so therefore it's totally worth the price!". There are reasons why some people should consider getting the Mac Pro. Apple having spent money on the design is not one of the reasons though...

(Although, the design of the case might make it more desirable to people, it does not make it objectively better).

[Puppet]

:lol:

 

It really is sad isn't it? 

 

Yes, if you want a general use computer you can build a cheaper (but more powerful PC) than you can a iMac or Mac Pro. Thats just fact. 

 

But workstation? 

 

My kids label still applies, as these guys have never stepped foot in a professional environment. Regardless of Mac or PC; these computers and their parts are never cheap. Xeons and Firepros/Quadros/Teslas and ECC memory and co-processors and anything else I'm forgetting; this stuff isn't for playing around. Its for work. These guys make money. They need the best kit to let them get as much work done so they can go make money.

 

I don't know a single professional developer or artist who says "You know, I could avoid these Quadros and get a 780 Ti, those have decent enough CUDA performance and then I can also play games too". Just no. 

 

Guys who can expense 10 grand in workstation kit can probably afford a proper general use computer that doesn't spend time doing brutal rendering or calculations. 

 

And Firepros are validated to hell and back to work constantly and at full loads for a long time. Thats why these guys use cards like that. Cause its assured that they will take the abuse. You pay for that kind of validation. To them, it is peace of mind knowing that this one piece of hardware was designed to do exactly what they need it to do. 

 

It was actually a genuine question, I am looking for a cheaper alternative for 10-bit color output :lol:... I was expecting that it wouldn't be though...

 

8-bit is usually fine for me, the majority of the work I have done up until recently has been for web, some for print, but now I have gotten quite into the retouching side of things, using brushes, gradients, masking etc, and a lot more of it is for print, I am beginning to notice some small issues when working with 8-bit. I have gaming cards at home, but the computers at the studio I use have Quadro, which I rent when doing serious projects, it costs extra money though so I am going to pick up a Quadro soon as my editing monitor supports it.

 

So yeah I definitely agree that it is important for some folks, most consumer parts are fine for my needs, with the exception of the GPU and the color depth thing. Things like workstation CPUs and ECC ram are probably more important for editing video and CGI and can also see the portability factor being a bonus for people out on location.

 

I think it's always going to be an issue on predominantly gaming forums, because the majority of people have no need for the extra features. I have always defended the Mac Pro on here, but despite countless threads, there still seems to be haters despite all the evidence for the need of workstation components and that it is priced fairly competitively (currently).

 

I have kind of given up now and just take a back seat. :lol: