PSU makers that have janky warranties

[Blademaster91]

54 minutes ago, Elisis said:

He talks here on his own time.

In my opinion that still doesn't excuse someone from being a d*ck, a employee of corsair or whatever hardware company should have a tag regardless.

[Juular]

2 hours ago, NZKshatriya said:

It's more likely a sudden system shutoff would be due to a PSU being overloaded in spikes, or thermal protection on the system.

You've missed the part where removing extensions actually fixed the issue, in this and many other cases. The voltage drop might not be the primary cause but cable extensions are problematic, it's not a secret. But i don't see how his reply was 'ad hominem' there at all. Neither i see how this is relevant to the discussion in the first place.

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

Aren't company reps supposed to have an affiliate tag or something?

Jon is not a Corsair rep.

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

Edit- A bit of a hot take, but I wouldn't expect an employee of a hardware company to support right to repair, most companies are against the consumer being able to repair their own stuff.

Again, this is not about the right to repair. Repair your own PSU all you want if you know how to do it right. But you can't expect them to give you the warranty on it after you did so, and it's complex enough for the manufacturer to be unable to determine whether it failed or killed your other PC components due to random fault, issue with the production at the factory or you meddling with it. If you want to be able to open the PSU any time without losing the warranty, don't expect the companies providing the warranty nearly as long as it is a norm today (10 years).

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

And I think there could be a way to swap a fan in a PSU without having to touch the internals by using a separate shroud then have the fan connect by a standard 3 or 4 pin connector, then again this would probably add 0.02 cents to manufacturing and manufacturers couldn't force you to replace it when the fan fails.

This is not about letting user a way to replace the fan in the PSU, it's about ensuring that the PSU is intact, that it's working as was designed by manufacturer. The fan is the integral part of it, there are no way you would be able to replace the fan with the one having the same characteristics unless you just replace it with the very same fan, which is in most cases impossible. By replacing the fan with the one having lower static pressure and/or airflow or different RPM curve the PSU and it's components will be at risk of overheating, and OTP is not always the answer. Let's be honest, the only way you'd want to replace the PSU fan yourself if you still have the warranty on it, is to replace it with whatever fan you think will be 'better' (Noctua, yeah), or to lower the noise output (by simply getting a lower RPM fan).

[Juular]

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

In my opinion that still doesn't excuse someone from being a d*ck, a employee of corsair or whatever hardware company should have a tag regardless.

So if you work at McDonalds you should have a McDonalds tag on forums or smth lol ? No, you don't, unless you a rep, even if you're a manager at McDonalds.

Jon is here is simply to discuss a thing or two about PSUs, and to provide an insight into the industry, because believe or not, he knows more about this field than 99% people here. And simply to help people. Be a dick in the process or not is completely up to him.

This is the reason why Jon is literally the single one person from any PSU manufacturing company you'll see active on forums and who you can ask question expecting an answer, people see a 'Corsair RnD director' and instantly assume that he's a shill and is trying to sell you something.

[seon123]

21 minutes ago, Juular said:

he knows more about this field than 99% people here

Wait, then who are those in the 1% that know more? o.O

[GoldenLag]

2 minutes ago, seon123 said:

Wait, then who are those in the 1% that know more? o.O

He is the one percent

/s

[Juular]

Just now, seon123 said:

Wait, then who are those in the 1% that know more? o.O

Wish i knew, but i imagine, some other people heavily involved in the production or design of the PSUs or power electronics in general ? They just don't affiliate themselves to avoid this type of argument and/or don't post as often in the first place.

[Blademaster91]

30 minutes ago, Juular said:

Jon is not a Corsair rep.

Ok, R&D manager, even more important of position worthy of a title or tag in my opinion.

30 minutes ago, Juular said:

Again, this is not about the right to repair. Repair your own PSU all you want if you know how to do it right. But you can't expect them to give you the warranty on it after you did so, and it's complex enough for the manufacturer to be unable to determine whether it failed or killed your other PC components due to random fault, issue with the production at the factory or you meddling with it. If you want to be able to open the PSU any time without losing the warranty, don't expect the companies providing the warranty nearly as long as it is a norm today (10 years).

I personally wouldn't touch the inside of a PSU, not worth getting electrocuted if the unit is still in warranty, and the company actually honors their warranty.

30 minutes ago, Juular said:

This is not about letting user a way to replace the fan in the PSU, it's about ensuring that the PSU is intact, that it's working as was designed by manufacturer. The fan is the integral part of it, there are no way you would be able to replace the fan with the one having the same characteristics unless you just replace it with the very same fan, which is in most cases impossible. By replacing the fan with the one having lower static pressure and/or airflow or different RPM curve the PSU and it's components will be at risk of overheating, and OTP is not always the answer. Let's be honest, the only way you'd want to replace the PSU fan yourself if you still have the warranty on it, is to replace it with whatever fan you think will be 'better' (Noctua, yeah), or to lower the noise output (by simply getting a lower RPM fan).

Then if the company had any concern for right to repair they would offer replacement fans, plenty of fans nowadays have decent static pressure to noise ratio so I don't see how replacing the usually crap stock fan with a better one, ie. Noctua or BeQuiet should void a warranty. I think it's no different that swapping out the stock fans on a GPU and zip tying on better ones as it's the same or better performance than the included fans.

28 minutes ago, Juular said:

So if you work at McDonalds you should have a McDonalds tag on forums or smth lol ? No, you don't, unless you a rep, even if you're a manager at McDonalds.

Jon is here is simply to discuss a thing or two about PSUs, and to provide an insight into the industry, because believe or not, he knows more about this field than 99% people here. And simply to help people. Be a dick in the process or not is completely up to him.

This is the reason why Jon is literally the single one person from any PSU manufacturing company you'll see active on forums and who you can ask question expecting an answer, people see a 'Corsair RnD director' and instantly assume that he's a shill and is trying to sell you something.

Uh, what? I think you're missing the point, I noticed someone mentioned they're the R&D manager for PSU's at Corsair, yet they have no tag making that clear, instead going by the website they abandoned quite a while ago.  No they don't have to be a dick in the process, and they're the one that went with the attitude of "you know who I am" claim. No, not everyone knows because there's no Corsair RnD manager tag, and again that review site got abandoned years ago. Unfortunately it's rare to find anyone that independently reviews power supplies anymore. And honestly since I see everyone recommending corsair the most over every other OEM in this forum I would still question if theres some shilling going on.

[Juular]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

Then if the company had any concern for right to repair they would offer replacement fans

I guess if you really want to you can source the fan from whatever fan OEM the PSU manufacturer uses. Yate Loon, Hong Hua, etc. That's given that it's an off-the-shelf model, not something custom. But i really don't see the point, if your PSU is still under the warranty, then just RMA it and get a new unit if the fan failed. And again, they can't just let you even replace the fan because they don't know if that's the only thing you 'touched' there. The warranty is there to provide the 'fan replacement' service if needed, and it's free (except for shipping costs unless a company will give you a return label) so it's not like they limiting your rights to repair exactly.

4 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

plenty of fans nowadays have decent static pressure to noise ratio so I don't see how replacing the usually crap stock fan with a better one, ie. Noctua or BeQuiet should void a warranty.

That's where you're wrong. Even if the Noctua/bqt fan you replace the 'crap' stock fan is 'better' on paper, it still wouldn't have the same PQ curve as the stock one, because the stock one was optimized (hopefully) to be a specifically PSU fan, not a general purpose fan you can buy for a DIY market. The only way you perhaps would replace the fan and don't put the PSU in the risk of overheating is by overprovisioning the RPM, so even if the static pressure on the same RPM is lower, higher RPM compensates it, but let's be honest, no one would do so, because muh perfect Noctua fans are always better than other fans even on lower RPMs, which is far from truth.

Btw, GN are planning to get a Longwin windtunnel for fan reviews later this year (hopefully) so we'll probably see the most detailed fan reviews in the media from them in the near future. They've already proved that even 240mm AIOs are in fact better than Noctua NH-D15, and even some air coolers are, so i'm looking into this Noctua worshipping thing being destructed even more.

12 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Uh, what? I think you're missing the point, I noticed someone mentioned they're the R&D manager for PSU's at Corsair, yet they have no tag making that clear, instead going by the website they abandoned quite a while ago.

No, it's you who miss the point. The tag means that you're willing to be a rep, Jon doesn't. And it's not like everyone else are screaming that they're managers at other companies so you don't need to go to Linkedin to find that out, is it ? Jonnyguru 'name' might be fading away by this time but most people who are into PSUs if they don't just watch random self-proclaimed YT experts, they do know that name, because they've looked for PSU reviews at some point.

17 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

No they don't have to be a dick in the process, and they're the one that went with the attitude of "you know who I am" claim.

Jon is honestly guilty of that, but that's his business, and this has nothing to do with this discussion.

18 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

And honestly since I see everyone recommending corsair the most over every other OEM in this forum I would still question if theres some shilling going on.

That's the case for a lot of reasons, which i wouldn't be getting into here, and shilling or rather, brand loyalty might be a reason for a lot of people here but that's actually their PSUs are in fact, very competitive right now, in contrast with most of offerings of say EVGA or even Seasonic. Not that the brand loyalty is a good thing but yeah, in this case it's kinda deserved.

[SavageNeo]

3 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

In my opinion that still doesn't excuse someone from being a d*ck, a employee of corsair or whatever hardware company should have a tag regardless.

Well Jon can be little d*ck sometimes but he always has a point on what he says and Jon is very likely only speaking facts. I do not mind Jon being a d*ck if he helps people and speaks facts which he does. I have all the respect for him.

 

Also having corsair "Rep" or some other tag related to Corsair would be a bad idea. As told before Jon is in here on his freetime. He does not have to be here but he is. 

It would be bad if Jon would have somekind of Corsair tag, because then people would judge him and question his answers only because he works for Corsair. 

[electropical]

15 hours ago, NZKshatriya said:

Same argument Apple uses for why people shouldn't be able to work on their own devices.

Apple is a disingenuous company, they do come up with obnoxious stuff to maximize their profits, we can agree on that.

But when we say that NOBODY should be allowed to open a PSU without voiding the warranty, that's a completely different discussion.
It doesn't matter how knowledgeable you are, you could be a PSU engineer that it still wouldn't matter, you are voiding the warranty.

Power supplies can not be treated like regular electronic devices for a number of reasons, among them the following :
1/ there is no need to open a PSU as long as it's working properly : if you want to remove whatever dust has accumulated inside the unit, you can just block the fan and blow the dust away with an appropriate tool.
 

2/ nothing inside it is to be upgraded (even a high quality fan that is proven to do an excellent job inside a number of PSUs is NOT compatible with all PSUs, and to know whether it is perfectly compatible or not with a given PSU is something only an expert with advanced testing equipment can do.

 

3/ PSUs are particularly fragile by nature : before they're shipped to retailers, they undergo extensive testing to make sure they're working properly, yet there are many units that end up DOA simply because of damage during shipping. Knowing that you can kill a PSU by simply shaking it during transportation while sitting inside a box with protective foam, can you imagine what one can do when exposing its internals?

 

4/ PSUs are dangerous by nature. Not only because of the charged caps inside it, but also because of how they can start fires when they fail.
Let's say some idiot opens his PSU to modify it, does a terrible job at that and turns it into an incendiary weapon. He then proceeds to use it, and burns down his house with it.
When that sort of stuff happens, who's usually getting attacked by the media and the public? The idiot that chose to play with fire, or the company that sells the product?
That "warranty void if removed" sticker should definitely be there to discourage idiots from opening their PSUs, let their greed keep them in check.
Companies definitely have the right to protect their reputation and their finances from obnoxious behaviors.
 

5/ People with proper microsoldering skills can easily modify a PSU (you can find such people in repair shops), and if they use identical parts, even PSU engineers won't be able to tell that the PSU has been tampered with. The only thing that can guarantee a PSU has not been tampered with is that warranty sticker.

 

8 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

right to repair

Like others have already said, you have the right to repair whatever your own. Just accept the fact that you are voiding your warranty when doing so.
This idea that you do not fully own a product because you do not have full access to documentation on how that product works and the company does not provide the parts is completely obnoxious.
Do you imply that whenever you go to the restaurant, the cook has to provide you with a detailed ingredients list and the cooking recipe?
 

 

8 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Edit- A bit of a hot take, but I wouldn't expect an employee of a hardware company to support right to repair, most companies are against the consumer being able to repair their own stuff.

Had you known Jon better, you would know that accusing him of being disingenuous is completely obnoxious.
People that know him enough can vouch for his honesty and transparency.
I have many examples that I can link you to, to the point that I don't understand how he hasn't got fired yet lol.


Had he not been trustworthy (and super helpful), he wouldn't be this respected by the community.

[Spotty]

Since this thread has gone off topic and just turned in to a public debate over members of the forum I think we can end this here.