PSU makers that have janky warranties

[NZKshatriya]

So.

Looks like SeaSonic, Corsair, and EVGA all have the classic "open the unit, warranty is void" clause, even tho....that's slightly against the Magnuson-Moss Act.

I've got a post going on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/righttorepair/comments/naeiqn/seasonic_opening_the_psu_voids_the_warranty/

 

 

I've sent a similar email to EVGA as well and will post their reply.

[tkitch]

So....  What's the discussion here? 

[Zando_]

It could be because they're PSUs and you shouldn't be opening them in the first place unless you know very well what you're doing. 

If it violates any laws then AFAIK they can't enforce that warranty so it should be a non-issue. 

[thrasher_565]

some things you should not open and mess with.

[NZKshatriya]

4 hours ago, Zando Bob said:

It could be because they're PSUs and you shouldn't be opening them in the first place unless you know very well what you're doing. 

If it violates any laws then AFAIK they can't enforce that warranty so it should be a non-issue. 

I think you are missing the point entirely.

 

It's not whether or not the parts or serviceable, it's the fact that they void the warranty due to the case being opened which is in violation of the MMA.

 

Say, I open the case to blow out dust after a year but do nothing else.  I then send the PSU in for a warranty issue due to something.  They legally have to prove that my cleaning dust caused the failure.

 

They cannot legally just say "Case has been opened, therefore the warranty is void"

[NZKshatriya]

3 hours ago, James Evens said:

If there is one part in the PC where it makes sense it is the PSU.

Touch a wrong part and you are dead or at least the next hours monitored.

 

 

This is false when it comes to a properly discharged PSU.

And there are more than enough users out there that know how to do this.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, NZKshatriya said:

So.

Looks like SeaSonic, Corsair, and EVGA all have the classic "open the unit, warranty is void" clause, even tho....that's slightly against the Magnuson-Moss Act.

I've got a post going on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/righttorepair/comments/naeiqn/seasonic_opening_the_psu_voids_the_warranty/

 

 

I've sent a similar email to EVGA as well and will post their reply.

Oh.. That's you.  LOL!  Let us know how your lawsuit goes.

 

33 minutes ago, NZKshatriya said:

 

This is false when it comes to a properly discharged PSU.

And there are more than enough users out there that know how to do this.

And most that don't.   There's a HUGE liability in a company telling a customer "sure.. open up the PSU" compared to "sure..... open up your X-Box."

 

>> I'M << not even allowed to open a PSU, work on it and close it back up without doing Hi Pot and ground bond tests afterwards (without liability to the user of said PSU), yet you expect PSU manufacturers to tell end users it's ok?

 

The Magnuson-Moss act means you're not required to use "authorized repair centers" or be forced to use "authorized parts" without voiding your warranty.  In other words, if you swap out the PSU in your iBuyPower or Dell PC, iBuyPower and Dell cannot void your warranty.  The PSU is a part within that part.  Using your logic, a user should be able to desolder the memory chips from their DRAM and solder them onto a new PCB becaus "some people know how to do that."

 

[Quartz11]

You can blow out most of the dust with cans of compressed air and then a small vacuum cleaner.  Sufficient amounts of it anyway.  Most cans of compressed air come with pretty thin straw nozzles that can even go through the fan grills.  Having proper ventilation with mesh filters (not too constrictive) is important too, for all internal components.  

 

In regards to warranty for opening up a PSU to replace a fan--think about what you are trying to accomplish and why.  Is your argument just for academic purposes?   

• If you are changing the fan to a quieter one, then you are technically operating the PSU out of the manufacturer's specification (for instance overheating some parts), and so the manufacturer can then easily say that warranty is voided.
• If your PSU fan breaks--you do an RMA within the warranty period--the replacement should be covered by the PSU manufacturer.  If you buy from another country and know there are no support centers nearby, don't you already know that submitting your PSU for RMA warranty service will be not something you will want to do?  In which case it matters not what you do with your PSU and whether it breaks the warranty. 
• And if your PSU is out of warranty and the fan dies, it also doesn't matter what you do for warranty purposes.

 

Edited to add:

Let's look at a typical warranty--for example Seasonic's, since you used Seasonic as one of your examples:

 

"VI. Warranty Seasonic’s warranty covers all power supplies beginning from the date of purchase, against defects in materials or workmanship. During the warranty period, Sea Sonic maintains the discretion to either repair units or replace broken components with parts of similar or equal performance, provided that: The product is returned to the point of purchase, postage prepaid. The product was properly used according to the manufacturer’s intended purposes. The product was not damaged due to acts of nature, such as lightening, flood or fire. The product’s cover was never removed and the warranty sticker was not broken. For additional details, please visit www.seasonic.com/rma"

 

If you are removing the fan and changing it, then technically you have modified the product, and it is no longer as specified by the manufacturer in terms of overall performance profile.  The manufacturer is only warranting their own parts and workmanship to be free of defect and operate to their spec.  The product is now not operating to the original spec, so the manufacturer can no longer guarantee its performance.  (And yes, opening up power supplies should not be done by 99.5% of buyers without understanding the dangers and proceeding appropriately.) 

 

What Seasonic is saying by "The product’s cover was never removed and the warranty sticker was not broken." is the logical continuation of "The product was properly used according to the manufacturer’s intended purposes. The product was not damaged due to acts of nature, such as lightening, flood or fire."  It's saying "The product was not damaged due to someone's interference with its intended operation parameters."

 

Why stop at fan?  Say you replace other parts as "improvements", like capacitors--after all, you know everything about power supplies and have the proficiency to do it.  Do you really expect a manufacturer to provide free repair on something they did not actually engineer and make?  If you do it poorly, or use some part that's out of spec, and it has far-reaching consequences--do you expect the manufacturer to stand by it and say "sure, you messed it up, let us take care of it for you for free"?

[Zando_]

14 hours ago, NZKshatriya said:

I think you are missing the point entirely.

 

It's not whether or not the parts or serviceable, it's the fact that they void the warranty due to the case being opened which is in violation of the MMA.

 

Say, I open the case to blow out dust after a year but do nothing else.  I then send the PSU in for a warranty issue due to something.  They legally have to prove that my cleaning dust caused the failure.

 

They cannot legally just say "Case has been opened, therefore the warranty is void"

I’ll just quote my own post that you yourself quoted quick:

18 hours ago, Zando Bob said:

If it violates any laws then AFAIK they can't enforce that warranty so it should be a non-issue. 

 

[Guest]

Here's how it will go down when you contact a lawyer.....

 

Did Seasonic refuse to replace your unit?

No.

Is Seasonic charging you to repair the product?

No.

Is Seasonic making you buy parts to repair or charging you to repair or charging you for a replacement (shipping costs not withstanding).

No.

 

Sorry.  You don't have a case.

 

[Guest]

LOL!  I was banned from the Reddit thread for "spreading FUD".

 

LOL!  Man you guys in there are hilarious.  Like those people that open class action lawsuits against Tostitos because guacamole flavored chips don't contain avocado.  Or because Herdez Sa

lsa Verde is "Mexico's favorite" but is made in the U.S.

 

You know who I am.  You know what I do.  That alone should tell you that I am right.

 

[Guest]

So... here's the response I typed up for the /righttorepair mod for banning me.

 

Quote

What I posted is not FUD. It's fact.  The OP knows who I am and knows where I work.  That should tell him that I am quite familiar with the Magnuson-Moss Act.  

 

The Act DOES give him the right to repair assemblies, but not their sub-assemblies.  His car, his PC, even if it's a pre-build, his game console, etc.  An internal PSU is a sub-assembly.  It's is labeled as such and is why it has the unique safety certifications on it that it does.  Even Seasonic would not repair his unit due to liability.  They would replace it in its entirety.  You are not legally allowed to sell a "remanufactured" part like a PSU without doing a number of tests, like Hi-Pot, ground bond, etc. before sending it out.  Something that would have labor costs associated with it that would negate the value of the component.  When you buy "B-Stock" or "Refurbished" PSUs, they are not remanufactured.  They are tested, repackaged and resold, but not rebuilt.  

 

The Magnuson-Moss Act is to prevent companies from forcing consumers to have to "buy into" things like using only an authorized repair center or authorized replacement parts.  His warranty allows him to get a complete replacement of his PSU.  Seasonic has not refused to replace the PSU.  Seasonic is not forcing him to buy the replacement fan from them.  This is different then telling someone with a Dell that they have to go to a Dell service center to have their memory replaced or upgraded using authorized Dell parts.

 

You don't have to "un-ban" me.  But I do want you to be aware that you did ban me... because I'm right.  So, your subreddit literally censors people for not agreeing with your perception.   That's an insult to the Reddit community at a large and something you and your team should be ashamed of.

 

Now I'm going to go out and work on my car.  Because the Magnuson-Moss act allows me to do so without voiding my warranty.  Don't worry.  I don't plan on putting 4" lift kit on it because I am smart enough to know that WILL void my warranty because I'm not a mouth-breather that feels the world constantly owes me something.

[-rascal-]

23 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

LOL!  I was banned from the Reddit thread for "spreading FUD".

 

LOL!  Man you guys in there are hilarious.  Like those people that open class action lawsuits against Tostitos because guacamole flavored chips don't contain avocado.  Or because Herdez Slsa Verde is "Mexico's favorite" but is made in the U.S.

 

You know who I am.  You know what I do.  That alone should tell you that I am right.

 

 

Did they really?!

I don't think they recognize your Reddit username (or something).

 

4 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

So... here's the response I typed up for the /righttorepair mod for banning me.

 

 

Now I'm going to go out and work on my car.  Because the Magnuson-Moss act allows me to do so without voiding my warranty.  Don't worry.  I don't plan on putting 4" lift kit on it because I am smart enough to know that WILL void my warranty because I'm not a mouth-breather that feels the world constantly owes me something.

Exactly.

Replacing the rubber on all 4 wheels won't void the warranty...

But if you're like me, reprogramming the damn ECU, and make the engine run +7.5 PSI of extra boost over stock, if the engine blows up, warranty WON'T be honored.

[electropical]

23 minutes ago, jonnyGURU said:

So... here's the response I typed up for the /righttorepair mod for banning me.

 

 

Now I'm going to go out and work on my car.  Because the Magnuson-Moss act allows me to do so without voiding my warranty.  Don't worry.  I don't plan on putting 4" lift kit on it because I am smart enough to know that WILL void my warranty because I'm not a mouth-breather that feels the world constantly owes me something.

Honestly, you shouldn't be expecting random people on reddit to know your curriculum.
Had they known anything about PSUs in general, they would have also known that nobody should be allowed to open their PSU without voiding the warranty.

At the end of the day, they ain't getting what they're asking for, no need to waste your time with them.

[NZKshatriya]

On 5/13/2021 at 4:21 PM, electropical said:

nobody should be allowed to open their PSU without voiding the warranty.

 

Same argument Apple uses for why people shouldn't be able to work on their own devices.

[NZKshatriya]

On 5/13/2021 at 1:40 PM, jonnyGURU said:

You know who I am.  You know what I do.  That alone should tell you that I am right.

 

Actually, I don't.  Who the are you again?

Edited May 26, 2021 by GDRRiley
removed negative from quote

[comicsansms]

2 hours ago, NZKshatriya said:

Actually, I don't.  Who the are you again?

Founder of JonnyGuru.com; a PSU review website. And now the PSU R&D manager at Corsair

Edited May 26, 2021 by GDRRiley
removed negative from quote

[MadAnt250]

On 5/12/2021 at 11:33 AM, NZKshatriya said:

Looks like SeaSonic, Corsair, and EVGA all have the classic "open the unit, warranty is void" clause, even tho....that's slightly against the Magnuson-Moss Act.

I think you have it confused with the sticker thing.

And this situation kinda seems like a grey area, but JonnyGURU's statement kinda explains it.

"The Act DOES give him the right to repair assemblies, but not their sub-assemblies."

 

I'm for the right for repair, but you are poking from the wrong angle (or at least that is what it seems like to me).

 

Also... I am the warranty.

2 hours ago, NZKshatriya said:

Actually, I don't.  Who the are you again?

He's JonnyGURU the PSU expert. Look him up, @comicsansmsbeat me to it.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, NZKshatriya said:

Same argument Apple uses for why people shouldn't be able to work on their own devices.

Different argument.  You're clouding everything together as one argument.  THAT is where you and your "right to repair" Reddit mod are confused.

 

 

 

[GDRRiley]

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[NZKshatriya]

4 hours ago, comicsansms said:

Founder of JonnyGuru.com; a PSU review website. And now the PSU R&D manager at Corsair

You mean a defunct PSU review website, and a R&D Manager, not engineer.

Also, someone who has a history of using ad hominem replies to people in this and other forums if you go through his replies to others.

 

Not an ad hom but that is some sage crap advice.

2 feet of 18awg does not a lot of resistance make.

 

It's more likely a sudden system shutoff would be due to a PSU being overloaded in spikes, or thermal protection on the system.

But I digress.

 

[The Blackhat]

34 minutes ago, NZKshatriya said:

You mean a defunct PSU review website, and a R&D Manager, not engineer.

Also, someone who has a history of using ad hominem replies to people in this and other forums if you go through his replies to others.

 

Not an ad hom but that is some sage crap advice.

2 feet of 18awg does not a lot of resistance make.

 

It's more likely a sudden system shutoff would be due to a PSU being overloaded in spikes, or thermal protection on the system.

But I digress.

 

lol…

[Blademaster91]

2 hours ago, NZKshatriya said:

You mean a defunct PSU review website, and a R&D Manager, not engineer.

Also, someone who has a history of using ad hominem replies to people in this and other forums if you go through his replies to others.

 

Not an ad hom but that is some sage crap advice.

2 feet of 18awg does not a lot of resistance make.

 

It's more likely a sudden system shutoff would be due to a PSU being overloaded in spikes, or thermal protection on the system.

But I digress.

 

Aren't company reps supposed to have an affiliate tag or something?

But anyway, I think warranty stickers on any PC hardware sucks, however a PC power supply is one thing not just any person should be opening unless they understand how to discharge the dangerous amount of current. And I think there could be a way to swap a fan in a PSU without having to touch the internals by using a separate shroud then have the fan connect by a standard 3 or 4 pin connector, then again this would probably add 0.02 cents to manufacturing and manufacturers couldn't force you to replace it when the fan fails.

Edit- A bit of a hot take, but I wouldn't expect an employee of a hardware company to support right to repair, most companies are against the consumer being able to repair their own stuff.

[Elisis]

3 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Aren't company reps supposed to have an affiliate tag or something?

He's not a rep. Corsair has reps with the tag here already. He talks here on his own time.

[comicsansms]

1 hour ago, NZKshatriya said:

You mean a defunct PSU review website, and a R&D Manager, not engineer.

hmmmm... Think about what makes a good manager...

Quote

Also, someone who has a history of using ad hominem replies to people in this and other forums if you go through his replies to others.

 

Not an ad hom but that is some sage crap advice.

2 feet of 18awg does not a lot of resistance make.

 

It's more likely a sudden system shutoff would be due to a PSU being overloaded in spikes, or thermal protection on the system.

But I digress.

He is quite careful at what he says. He doesn't recommend products, just gives input on what's provided.

 

You are some teen on the internet, and understand the gist of the Magnuson-Moss act, however, you don't know it. Everything you say is your speculation, not the facts.