Words aren't enough. We need ACTION.

[billm_mz3gt]

5 minutes ago, Egg-Roll said:

Right except they are selling to the public domain, if they wanted to keep all closed door hush hush access like, they should never have sold to the public (like ARM or Snapdragon) and sold to the private sector where they could force contracts with them or go elsewhere. You want to know how invasive the public domain is in general? I can walk up to your house stay on the sidewalk and take a picture of/record your house even if you are on your porch, so long as I don't walk onto your property to do so or if a privacy fence exists and I don't obviously try to record over it (if I'm taller then your fence it's basically fair game), it's also the same reason why you can get charged for drinking in public on your own property. You could call the cops but outside of asking nicely and collecting my information there is absolutely nothing they could do to me (depending on local regulations, specific situations (usually vulnerable people, or if I keep going to the same home), etc, but typically it's legal and you have no say in it), how else do you think Google gets away with street view in residential areas? (you can get your house blurred, but you have to ask) Equally I can take my same camera out to a busy street and record you driving down the road so long as I comply with local laws for pedestrians (including loitering laws), privacy on public and even private grounds is non-existence if the public can view it (within reasonable limits and circumstances).

 

Same thing towards companies you sell to the public domain you have to play nicely with the public domain and the laws around it (legal or not, aka common sense, good business practices towards the public etc), which Apple is not and therefore because one bad apple (literally it seems as their old icon used to be a bitten apple) is not playing nice with the public things will have to change and by force. Apple can stop these changes from happening by easily opening up their repair sector to companies and let them select their pricing, as long as the parts are sold at reasonable prices to them. If Apple doesn't like their consumers opinions, get out of the public sector, no one is forcing them to sell to us. Louis Rossmann's gofundme isn't about going threw the politicians directly, it's about what the people want, the people get to decide if the bill gets herd or stuck in a endless loop. This means if the people want it they will likely get it heard at least, threw his means Apple (and others) can't stop it (afaik), and politicians have no say in it by pushing and/or ignoring the matter any longer.

 

For more info on how stupidly invasive the public domain is you can check out this channel and watch people basically go to the extremes of the laws in place https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc-0YpRpqgA5lPTpSQ5uo-Q

Company stuff is a little different sure but the basics are the same, restrain too much people will retaliate, and that's what's happening right now, and it is a good thing for 90% of the people.

 

That's why Louis is going to the people route, if enough people demand it via Initiative the government has a legal obligation to listen at least in the states that have it, what happens after that is foreign to me, however remember the government wile typically doesn't care about the people (esp those who are pro business) they do care about themselves more then the companies they are enslaved to. So if by rejecting said laws that the people wanted to be put into place could mean next election they will not get back in.

I'm not knocking Louis in any way when I say this, but he can talk to them until he's blue in the face. I hope he can change this. I know it's not going to happen over night but he's been telling them this for a very long time and nothing has changed. Which means basically they don't care at all, and to be fair the people who are in companies pockets don't seem to care about themselves because they let this continue to happen. Like I said, it's all about the money.

[Egg-Roll]

9 minutes ago, billm_mz3gt said:

I'm not knocking Louis in any way when I say this, but he can talk to them until he's blue in the face. I hope he can change this. I know it's not going to happen over night but he's been telling them this for a very long time and nothing has changed. Which means basically they don't care at all, and to be fair the people who are in companies pockets don't seem to care about themselves because they let this continue to happen. Like I said, it's all about the money.

Right now the main issue is the politicians ignoring or pushing the issue off for another day, they talk the talk but can't(won't) walk the walk kind of deal, his way to my understanding if successful bypasses them and puts it on the table in front of them forcing them to read it which is the part that needs to happen for it to pass or not. I'm sure once it hits the tables it will pass as it would help a lot of people and companies by pushing more competition etc, sure it would hurt Apple but it won't bankrupt them and it could equally be financially successful for them as well.

[billm_mz3gt]

On 4/25/2021 at 10:56 PM, Egg-Roll said:

Right now the main issue is the politicians ignoring or pushing the issue off for another day, they talk the talk but can't(won't) walk the walk kind of deal, his way to my understanding if successful bypasses them and puts it on the table in front of them forcing them to read it which is the part that needs to happen for it to pass or not. I'm sure once it hits the tables it will pass as it would help a lot of people and companies by pushing more competition etc, sure it would hurt Apple but it won't bankrupt them and it could equally be financially successful for them as well.

Not only the main issue, but the biggest obstacle in this whole thing. They will continue to ignore it. 

[derpkotacasper]

As an automotive technician, if I may weigh in -

Right to repair does exist, but manufacturers have still managed to figure out ways to make absolutely sure that a modern vehicle WILL inevitably end up going to an actual dealership. While these things are limited, you absolutely cannot update something like your PCM anywhere but a dealership. You cannot get a modern key anywhere but the dealership. The software remains proprietary and this will not change. 

There have also been other things done to make it harder for the layman to repair things in their driveway. For example, when servicing the brakes on an Audi, you CANNOT service the brakes without an expensive two way scan tool. Not the 40 dollar special from Autozone that gives you the vague code, I'm talking about the top of the line, two way diagnostic scan tools, not code readers. These can put the vehicle into brake service mode. These types of scan tools also start at, as a conservative estimate, about a thousand dollars. That's just the tool.

Specialty tools exist absolutely everywhere in automotive too, Ford somehow managed to never get sued for the Triton series of motors - notorious for either forcibly ejecting a spark plug or outright snapping the spark plug in half inside the cylinder head. These are, again, proprietary design to Ford spark plugs and the specialty tool was sold initially by, you guessed it - the Ford Motor Company.

Right to repair goes about as far as making sure parts are manufactured for the vehicle as soon as it goes on sale for a number of years ever. As the saying goes, an engineer would step over a thousand virgins to fuck a mechanic. Automotive manufacturers deliberately make it as hard as possible to repair a vehicle out of their dealerships. The revenue from parts sales is simply too good to pass up - and OEM dealership parts are NOT cheap. Quality? Yes. Affordable? Maybe to Linus, considering I heard him call a 3080 affordable earlier, sure. To the average everyday consumer, no.

So while there is some truth to "right to repair existing in automotive," I would venture to argue that automotive strays further and further from this ideology every day.

What automotive did right that all tech companies absolutely must be forced to adhere to is fixing the environmental impact. Lee Iacocca, the father of the Mustang, is on record for having been an active enemy of legislation that would later lead to the introduction of the catalytic converter in the 70s. Shortly after the introduction, Iacocca is on record coming to actually advocate for these things - what automotive discovered is that a catalyst, much like tech components, consists primarily of noble metals. The crazy thing about noble metals is they're valuable. This led to Ford ultimately seeing record breaking profits in the parts division. From there, the tech continued to advance as a profitable part of automotive and is now to the point where a modern gas powered vehicle will starve a room of oxygen before it kills a man with carbon monoxide poisoning in a sealed garage.

This applies to diesel as well, with the advent of selective catalyst reduction in 2009. Anecdotally, on a 6.7 Powerstroke, I have replaced the entirety of an exhaust system from the diesel particulate filter, to the catalyst and including the entire DEF system - tank, pump, heater, lines and injector. I had someone running their mouth about how dirty diesel was and that it needed to be banned. I put a hose on the tailpipe, and in knowing I had just tested and repaired it, held the hose up to my mouth. Modern diesel emits hydrogen and trace amounts of chlorine.

Theres a whole other conversation to be had about sulphite emissions actually being much more dangerous to the environment than co2 emissions, but that's a rough conversation to have on a tech forum. The truth is, in the modern world, automotive isn't as big a part of the problem in the environment as it is painted out to be. We in the automotive industry did our part. The tech industry, in its constant state of growth has NOT been held to the same standards of automotive. It is time for the tech industry to be held responsible for their footprint on the environment, just as automotive was. (Also, let's talk about the human rights violations constantly being committed at Chinese manufacturing plants. Suicide nets? Really?)

The tech industry has no accountability at all.

[Quackers101]

5 hours ago, derpkotacasper said:

(Also, let's talk about the human rights violations constantly being committed at Chinese manufacturing plants. Suicide nets? Really?)

The tech industry has no accountability at all.

But think of the hackers!!! gets hacked like john deer when they didn't even care or about their consumers recently, that focuses on farming equpiment like technical tractors.

 

Oh yeah, there was a contest just recently, were amazon rewarded someone for the surveillance in china that is likely used in manufacturing or genocide plans.

[Quackers101]

On 4/26/2021 at 5:43 AM, gabrielcarvfer said:

Even McDonalds and Taylor (ice cream machine makers) are colluding to screw up customers and franchise owners.

-snip-

Should have seen that video earlier, since it does go in about the right to repair.

Now that the guy who "solved" the issues with them are seemingly suing McDonalds which has ties to the company making them and destroying the machines (kind of at will). And them are now going to solve it themselves... only just in worse ways.

 

My problem is that this can become or has been a major health risk and concern, both with the "legit" or the guy who solved and selled their own product.

As if their access only gives information and not a way to acces the controls, or to the failures of the old system that could lead to unhealthy effects to the mass inside the machine and sold produce at these stores that will impact the consumers health as with the risk of dairy products. As one should fight back against such BS, even if they have accepted this for years and made profit out of it.

 

Again in something companies could just get a contract on giving them money and being them as provider instead of having this "fake business practices" that can impact people health wise and mentally. Hurting instead of helping, and the notion of this should continue as is. When they could have a solid product with a good deal instead, skipping the hassle but encouraging the use of their products.